You Boys in Green Homepage YBIG Shop
Forum Home Forum Home : International : Rest of The World
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - We’re not Brasil we’re Tuaisceart Éireann
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login


We’re not Brasil we’re Tuaisceart Éireann

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 276277278279280>
Author
Message
gspain View Drop Down
Ray Houghton
Ray Houghton


Joined: 21 Apr 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 4236
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gspain Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2019 at 2:39pm
I've gone into 1993 too many times on this forum.  I'm sure it is easy to find without searching too hard.  

1)  Billy Bingham is not a bigot.  I was on the opposite side of the pitch that night so didn't see what the cameras picked up.  Apparently he was exhorting the crowd to sing louder when some were singing a sectarian song.  His record and the testiomony of so many players speaks for itself.   

2)  The accusation "hes a bigot" was easily labeleld in the 1970's & 80's.  I heard it quite a bit against a few prominent football people in Northern Ireland.  Not Bingham.  It was almost certainly true against one possibly more whom I'm not going to name.

3)  The over-riding thing about that night was that everybody was watching.  It is difficult to explain how much the national team had consumed the nation at the time.  People who knew nothing about the game were glued to it.  It was the Late Late Toy show on stilts.  Now it was a meaningless game on paper for NI.  So many saw it as bad-minded that they desperately wanted to win thus denying us a place in the World Cup.  Many before the game also expected NI to let us win.  Some Danes still believe they let us equalise.  

4)  NI were hammered 3-0 in Dublin the previous March.  It could and should have been a lot more.  It was 3 after 30 minutes and the crowd sang "one team in Ireland" quite  a bit during the 2nd half.  That was humiliating and they wanted revenge.  It was also Bingham's last match.  the FAI also tried to get the game moved.  I think Liverpool was mentioned and definitely remember checking flights to Munich.  That obviously did not go down well given they had 4 years in the 70's without a home game.    

5)  There was sectarian singing that night.  Some of our players got awful abuse particularly Alan Kernaghan who was called a traitor and a Lundy.  The term "fenian bastard" was probably aimed and most players and the match officials.  It wasn't a pleasant atmosphere.  However I experienced far worse at football and didn't discover "how bad it was" until I got back to work in Galway at lunchtime the next day.      

6)  Windsor Park is totally different now.  The crowd are just as loud and passionate but there is no sectarian stuff.   
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
Territorial View Drop Down
Ray Houghton
Ray Houghton


Joined: 25 Nov 2014
Status: Offline
Points: 3625
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Territorial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2019 at 2:56pm
Originally posted by gspain gspain wrote:

I've gone into 1993 too many times on this forum.  I'm sure it is easy to find without searching too hard.  

1)  Billy Bingham is not a bigot.  I was on the opposite side of the pitch that night so didn't see what the cameras picked up.  Apparently he was exhorting the crowd to sing louder when some were singing a sectarian song.  His record and the testiomony of so many players speaks for itself.   

2)  The accusation "hes a bigot" was easily labeleld in the 1970's & 80's.  I heard it quite a bit against a few prominent football people in Northern Ireland.  Not Bingham.  It was almost certainly true against one possibly more whom I'm not going to name.

3)  The over-riding thing about that night was that everybody was watching.  It is difficult to explain how much the national team had consumed the nation at the time.  People who knew nothing about the game were glued to it.  It was the Late Late Toy show on stilts.  Now it was a meaningless game on paper for NI.  So many saw it as bad-minded that they desperately wanted to win thus denying us a place in the World Cup.  Many before the game also expected NI to let us win.  Some Danes still believe they let us equalise.  

4)  NI were hammered 3-0 in Dublin the previous March.  It could and should have been a lot more.  It was 3 after 30 minutes and the crowd sang "one team in Ireland" quite  a bit during the 2nd half.  That was humiliating and they wanted revenge.  It was also Bingham's last match.  the FAI also tried to get the game moved.  I think Liverpool was mentioned and definitely remember checking flights to Munich.  That obviously did not go down well given they had 4 years in the 70's without a home game.    

5)  There was sectarian singing that night.  Some of our players got awful abuse particularly Alan Kernaghan who was called a traitor and a Lundy.  The term "fenian bastard" was probably aimed and most players and the match officials.  It wasn't a pleasant atmosphere.  However I experienced far worse at football and didn't discover "how bad it was" until I got back to work in Galway at lunchtime the next day.      

6)  Windsor Park is totally different now.  The crowd are just as loud and passionate but there is no sectarian stuff.   

Thank you Gary.

Regarding No.3, it should also be remembered that while we were the "Top Dogs" in Ireland during the 1980's, by 1993 it was clear that it was now the ROI team who had assumed that mantle. So along with the 3-0 stuffing in Dublin, we were desperate to restore some footballing pride to our team, not least as a "Thank You" for the outgoing Bingham.
Back to Top
Trap junior View Drop Down
Robbie Keane
Robbie Keane
Avatar
www.revolut.com

Joined: 25 Jan 2010
Location: Milan, Italy
Status: Online
Points: 31345
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trap junior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2019 at 2:57pm

When all sense, sanity and humanity go out the window, months like October and November 1993 occur.

For those young and fortunate enough to have been spared the horrors of that time, the staging of a football match between two neighbouring countries might seem inconsequential, a distraction even, when set against the backdrop of the terrible atrocities on the Shankill Road, at Greysteel and the litany of murderous attacks less well documented amid the 25-year anniversaries just marked.

In a bloody two weeks, a total of 23 people were indiscriminately slaughtered in a vicious circle of tit for tat.

How could football matter at a time like that, an outsider might wonder, let alone become a conduit for further division? Didn't football, like all sports here, help provide a semblance of normality in the most abnormal of times?

But in a pervasive, poisonous atmosphere, with tensions ratcheted up to 11 and base instincts bringing out the worst in even the normally moderate, Northern Ireland v the Republic in a high-stakes Windsor Park World Cup qualifying fixture in the aftermath was a nightmare scenario for seriously overstretched security forces.

Read more: A night in November: 25 years on

ADVERTISEMENT
< preload="" aria-="true" style="width: 100%; height: 100%; max-width: none; max-height: none; display: block; top: 0px; left: 0px; : ; : rgb246, 245, 245; -fit: fill;" controls="">

As the death toll on the streets mounted and the temperature gauge of community relations plummeted as fast as fear and tensions sent the mercury rising, the game became a focal point for all the wrong reasons, a microcosm, it can now be seen, of the toxicity of the time.

In the days leading up to the Wednesday evening kick-off, tensions were ramped up and seized upon. Even the two managers, Billy Bingham and Jack Charlton, the most agreeable and outreaching of men, were later to regret uncharacteristic, incendiary outbursts, ignited by the heat of the moment.

Bingham was facing into his last match as Northern Ireland manager, having announced his retirement, and in the normal course of events, with his team out of the World Cup running, the game would have become a celebration of his glorious 13-year reign with two British Home Championships and qualification for two World Cups, Spain '82 and Mexico '86, to his eternal credit.

Charlton, for his part, found himself needing a win to make his second successive World Cup finals, though a draw would suffice, depending on the outcome of the Spain-Denmark game in Seville.

He would never have expected his biggest football rivals to roll over and rubber stamp the Republic's US visa. But Charlton, his FAI officials and Republic fans were shocked when Bingham, renowned for his considered and measured choice of words, lashed out in his first pre-match press conference, describing players recruited by the Republic under the parentage rule as 'mercenaries' and vowing to wreck their World Cup hopes.

"They couldn't find a way of making it with England or Scotland," he said of players like Andy Townsend, Ray Houghton and John Aldridge. "I take a totally cynical view of the whole business. I am not prepared to skirt the issue, the same as I am happy to state it is our intention to stuff the Republic."

Read more: 'A few minutes into the game we heard an anguished whisper from the son saying, 'Daddy, there's five Fenians in front of us''

Any hope of a lid being kept on the pressure cooker disappeared when FAI officials made behind-the-scenes moves to have the game moved to Old Trafford, on the grounds of safety concerns for their players and fans. An understandable request on their part, given the murderous climate. But Northern Ireland fans reacted furiously, believing the move to be a ploy to gain an advantage in pursuit of their World Cup dream.

And it wasn't just the fans frothing, the mood being reflected in an astonishing back page editorial in the normally uncontroversial 'News Letter' which abandoned all logical argument to declare: "We will tell you why they don't want to come here. It is because they are yellow!"

In the event, Fifa accepted IFA and security force assurances that Windsor could safely host the game, albeit with 2,000 police, soldiers, stewards and barking attack dogs deployed.

The Republic team had flown up, rather than drive, for security reasons, and on their team bus on the short journey to the stadium, they were accompanied by armed guards, dressed in tracksuits. As sectarian abuse rained down from the stands, Paul McGrath and team-mate Terry Phelan suffered the added indignity of racial taunts.

But the fiercest torrent engulfed Alan Kernaghan, the Bangor-raised Protestant who had played for Northern Ireland schoolboys but whose path to the senior team was blocked because both his parents had been born in England.

Amid the rancour, a football match broke out and in the circumstances, it was understandably dire until Jimmy Quinn scored a stunning volley for Northern Ireland in the 71st minute, changing the whole qualification picture for the Republic, who now needed to score.

Once again, caught up in the fevered atmosphere, Bingham's No 2, Jimmy Nicholl, now assistant to Michael O'Neill, reacted as he has never done in his football life, before or since, by shouting 'Up yours' (or words to that effect) in the face of Charlton's No 2, Maurice Setters.

While that was happening, Charlton was turning to substitute striker Tony Cascarino to hopefully get him that goal. But Cascarino, for the only time in his career, had forgotten to put his kit on. When Cascarino unzipped his tracksuit top, all he saw was a plain cotton T-shirt. "Jack's face turned purple," Cascarino recalled. "I thought he was going to have a heart attack."

On the final whistle and with their qualification still not confirmed, Charlton made a beeline for Bingham.

"I spotted Billy talking among his players and moved in his direction to congratulate him on his retirement and compliment him on a good game," he said in his autobiography. "At least that was my intention. Instead, in a moment I still find difficult to understand, I pointed a finger at him and blurted 'Up yours too, Billy'."

Charlton says he regretted the words instantly, not least because it hadn't been Bingham who gestured at Setters in the first place, and apologised shortly after. A surreal night ended with Charlton presenting Bingham with an award to mark his retirement. "Some of the people who'd been abusing me all evening are stood there cheering. I think that said it all about a crazy, noisy night."



Edited by Trap junior - 06 Dec 2019 at 3:30pm
For all your Bitcoin enquiries contact David Meyler

Crap senior is my full time stalker.
Back to Top
irishmufc View Drop Down
Robbie Keane
Robbie Keane
Avatar
I love Vulvas

Joined: 09 Aug 2011
Location: Dublin
Status: Offline
Points: 20919
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote irishmufc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2019 at 3:10pm
Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Originally posted by irishmufc irishmufc wrote:

Asking for a game to be moved over Bingham's insult towards our players is hardly the same thing. 

Simple question: Was Bingham in the wrong for describing our players as mercenaries? 

As simple yes or no will suffice rather than a thesis. Thanks.   

Whether it is/was accurate or not, I agree it would have been wiser not to say it. But in the grand scheme of things, it's hardly the worst thing a manager ever said about another team's players. (If anything, it provided Charlton with something to pin on the dressing room wall.)

Except when it's an NI manager we're talking about - then such remarks get upgraded to the status of a war crime.

And as for Chafrlton's demands that the match be switched, which would have given his team a huge advantage over Denmark etc, as well as depriving us of the chance to see our own team and give Bingham his send-off, he claimed that it was "unsafe" for ROI to play in Belfast.

Which was utter bullsh*t - as events subsequently proved.

Or did I somehow miss the casualty lists, rioting and mass evacuations?

Just because nothing of note happened after doesn't mean there wasn't legitimate security concerns especially in the wake of the Greysteel and Shankill attacks.  

What makes you think Jack was a hothead? 
 


That was soft rock cocaine enthusiasts Fleetwood Mac
Back to Top
Territorial View Drop Down
Ray Houghton
Ray Houghton


Joined: 25 Nov 2014
Status: Offline
Points: 3625
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Territorial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2019 at 3:20pm
Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

Originally posted by gspain gspain wrote:



1)  Billy Bingham is not a bigot.  I was on the opposite side of the pitch that night so didn't see what the cameras picked up.  Apparently he was exhorting the crowd to sing louder when some were singing a sectarian song.  His record and the testiomony of so many players speaks for itself.   


Answers your question

Are you completely thick or what?

"Billy Bingham is not a bigot"

"I didn't see... Apparently he was etc etc"

"His record and the testmony of so many players speaks for itself"

Unbelievable, simply unbelievable. Confused
Back to Top
Drumcondra 69er View Drop Down
Jack Charlton
Jack Charlton


Joined: 07 Oct 2009
Location: Ireland
Status: Offline
Points: 5755
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Drumcondra 69er Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2019 at 3:21pm
Originally posted by gspain gspain wrote:

I've gone into 1993 too many times on this forum.  I'm sure it is easy to find without searching too hard.  

1)  Billy Bingham is not a bigot.  I was on the opposite side of the pitch that night so didn't see what the cameras picked up.  Apparently he was exhorting the crowd to sing louder when some were singing a sectarian song.  His record and the testiomony of so many players speaks for itself.   

2)  The accusation "hes a bigot" was easily labeleld in the 1970's & 80's.  I heard it quite a bit against a few prominent football people in Northern Ireland.  Not Bingham.  It was almost certainly true against one possibly more whom I'm not going to name.

3)  The over-riding thing about that night was that everybody was watching.  It is difficult to explain how much the national team had consumed the nation at the time.  People who knew nothing about the game were glued to it.  It was the Late Late Toy show on stilts.  Now it was a meaningless game on paper for NI.  So many saw it as bad-minded that they desperately wanted to win thus denying us a place in the World Cup.  Many before the game also expected NI to let us win.  Some Danes still believe they let us equalise.  

4)  NI were hammered 3-0 in Dublin the previous March.  It could and should have been a lot more.  It was 3 after 30 minutes and the crowd sang "one team in Ireland" quite  a bit during the 2nd half.  That was humiliating and they wanted revenge.  It was also Bingham's last match.  the FAI also tried to get the game moved.  I think Liverpool was mentioned and definitely remember checking flights to Munich.  That obviously did not go down well given they had 4 years in the 70's without a home game.    

5)  There was sectarian singing that night.  Some of our players got awful abuse particularly Alan Kernaghan who was called a traitor and a Lundy.  The term "fenian bastard" was probably aimed and most players and the match officials.  It wasn't a pleasant atmosphere.  However I experienced far worse at football and didn't discover "how bad it was" until I got back to work in Galway at lunchtime the next day.      

6)  Windsor Park is totally different now.  The crowd are just as loud and passionate but there is no sectarian stuff.   

Not mention the racial abuse slung at Paul McGrath and Terry Phelan.

I don't believe Bingham is a bigot. He didn't do himself any favours that night though. Given what had gone on with the troubles in the build up he should have thought better of his behaviour. It was a poisonous atmosphere and he stoked which showed a lack of class untypical him. Terri's revisionism of what went on and that night is always good for a laugh though. 
Blog: A False First XI
Twitter: @afalsefirstxi
Facebook: A False First XI
Back to Top
Trap junior View Drop Down
Robbie Keane
Robbie Keane
Avatar
www.revolut.com

Joined: 25 Jan 2010
Location: Milan, Italy
Status: Online
Points: 31345
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trap junior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2019 at 3:24pm
Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

Originally posted by gspain gspain wrote:



1)  Billy Bingham is not a bigot.  I was on the opposite side of the pitch that night so didn't see what the cameras picked up.  Apparently he was exhorting the crowd to sing louder when some were singing a sectarian song.  His record and the testiomony of so many players speaks for itself.   


Answers your question

Are you completely thick or what?

"Billy Bingham is not a bigot"

"I didn't see... Apparently he was etc etc"

"His record and the testmony of so many players speaks for itself"

Unbelievable, simply unbelievable. Confused


Who's playing the man now?LOL

Poor aul Terrence.  On the verge of a meltdown.

Apparently he was waving as backed up by tv evidence
For all your Bitcoin enquiries contact David Meyler

Crap senior is my full time stalker.
Back to Top
Trap junior View Drop Down
Robbie Keane
Robbie Keane
Avatar
www.revolut.com

Joined: 25 Jan 2010
Location: Milan, Italy
Status: Online
Points: 31345
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trap junior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2019 at 3:28pm
.


Edited by Trap junior - 06 Dec 2019 at 3:31pm
For all your Bitcoin enquiries contact David Meyler

Crap senior is my full time stalker.
Back to Top
Trap junior View Drop Down
Robbie Keane
Robbie Keane
Avatar
www.revolut.com

Joined: 25 Jan 2010
Location: Milan, Italy
Status: Online
Points: 31345
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trap junior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2019 at 3:30pm
For all your Bitcoin enquiries contact David Meyler

Crap senior is my full time stalker.
Back to Top
Territorial View Drop Down
Ray Houghton
Ray Houghton


Joined: 25 Nov 2014
Status: Offline
Points: 3625
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Territorial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2019 at 3:34pm
Originally posted by irishmufc irishmufc wrote:

Just because nothing of note happened after doesn't mean there wasn't legitimate security concerns especially in the wake of the Greysteel and Shankill attacks.  
Of course there were concerns.

But the point was, it wasn't for Charlton to determine how those concerns should be addressed, it was for the local police. And with the times that were in it, the police will have been extra concerned not to risk extra trouble on the streets etc, when the easy thing to do would have been to make a quick phone call to FIFA and let them relocate the game somewhere else. So when they give it the go-ahead, they must have been confident they could handle it. Which confidence was subsequently entirely vindicated.

In the end, either Charlton was very ignorant of the true situation on the ground, or he was chancing his arm to obtain the advantage of a neutral venue.

Either way, he was out-of-order.

Originally posted by irishmufc irishmufc wrote:

What makes you think Jack was a hothead?  
You are joking, aren't you?


Lawrenson: "And Jack as well, completely lost it"
Back to Top
Territorial View Drop Down
Ray Houghton
Ray Houghton


Joined: 25 Nov 2014
Status: Offline
Points: 3625
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Territorial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2019 at 3:38pm
Back to Top
Territorial View Drop Down
Ray Houghton
Ray Houghton


Joined: 25 Nov 2014
Status: Offline
Points: 3625
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Territorial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2019 at 3:45pm
Originally posted by Drumcondra 69er Drumcondra 69er wrote:

Not mention the racial abuse slung at Paul McGrath and Terry Phelan.

Nor no denying/defending it, either (not by me, at any rate). As I've said before it was shameful. But my point is that it was no worse than many's a thing which went on at football matches at the time, yet we get held to a much higher standard than others, even now.

To give an example, I was at a Watford game which must have been around the same time where the entire opposition fans were singing "He's bald, he's queer, he takes it up the rear" at Elton John who, to be fair, appeared to laugh it off.

But you don't get that sort of stuff brought up decades later.

Originally posted by Drumcondra 69er Drumcondra 69er wrote:

I don't believe Bingham is a bigot. He didn't do himself any favours that night though. Given what had gone on with the troubles in the build up he should have thought better of his behaviour. It was a poisonous atmosphere and he stoked which showed a lack of class untypical him. Terri's revisionism of what went on and that night is always good for a laugh though. 
Re. Bingham, I agree he ought to have tempered his comments to ease the tension round the game.

But his comments were no more inflammatory than Charlton's, yet Big Jack gets a bye-ball, whereas Bingham gets pilloried, indeed libelled, for his remarks.

Twenty. Six. f**king. Years. Later. Shocked


Edited by Territorial - 06 Dec 2019 at 3:49pm
Back to Top
Trap junior View Drop Down
Robbie Keane
Robbie Keane
Avatar
www.revolut.com

Joined: 25 Jan 2010
Location: Milan, Italy
Status: Online
Points: 31345
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trap junior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2019 at 3:52pm
Great to see you back down Terrence.  You've gone from the atmosphere being fine  and the worst thing being said was ''jammy bastards'' to admitting it was poisonous with racial abuse thrown in with sectarian abuse.


For all your Bitcoin enquiries contact David Meyler

Crap senior is my full time stalker.
Back to Top
irishmufc View Drop Down
Robbie Keane
Robbie Keane
Avatar
I love Vulvas

Joined: 09 Aug 2011
Location: Dublin
Status: Offline
Points: 20919
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote irishmufc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2019 at 4:17pm
Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Originally posted by irishmufc irishmufc wrote:

Just because nothing of note happened after doesn't mean there wasn't legitimate security concerns especially in the wake of the Greysteel and Shankill attacks.  
Of course there were concerns.

But the point was, it wasn't for Charlton to determine how those concerns should be addressed, it was for the local police. And with the times that were in it, the police will have been extra concerned not to risk extra trouble on the streets etc, when the easy thing to do would have been to make a quick phone call to FIFA and let them relocate the game somewhere else. So when they give it the go-ahead, they must have been confident they could handle it. Which confidence was subsequently entirely vindicated.

In the end, either Charlton was very ignorant of the true situation on the ground, or he was chancing his arm to obtain the advantage of a neutral venue.

Either way, he was out-of-order.

Originally posted by irishmufc irishmufc wrote:

What makes you think Jack was a hothead?  
You are joking, aren't you?


Lawrenson: "And Jack as well, completely lost it"
 


Some false equivalency being made between Jack who was "out of order" and Billy who might have "tempered" his comments LOL in terms of who stoked up the pre-match atmosphere.  

You're deliberately minimizing Bingham's conduct/comments and exaggerating Jack's.  

If Jack had threw the classless mercenaries comment at the N.I. players, then you would have a better case to draw a comparison. 

Assuming Bingham isn't a bigot and acted out of character in the build up/during the match would you actually admit that he let himself down and was wrong? 

Regarding the video was Jack's reaction not understandable given the FIFA sideline moron who wouldn't let Aldo onto the pitch after Ireland had made the sub? 
That was soft rock cocaine enthusiasts Fleetwood Mac
Back to Top
Territorial View Drop Down
Ray Houghton
Ray Houghton


Joined: 25 Nov 2014
Status: Offline
Points: 3625
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Territorial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2019 at 4:29pm
Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

Great to see you back down Terrence.  You've gone from the atmosphere being fine  and the worst thing being said was ''jammy bastards'' to admitting it was poisonous with racial abuse thrown in with sectarian abuse.
I have never said "the atmosphere was fine", or anything like it.

On the contrary, I have freely and consistently agreed that much of the chanting and singing was "shameful" and "disgraceful" etc.

But what I will not have is going from there to accepting:
(a ) all the fans were at it (they most certainly weren't); or that
(b ) Bingham encouraged the singing of a sectarian song (he most certainly didn't);
(c ) that it was somehow the worst spectator behaviour ever, considering there were no missiles, injuries, pitch invasions or attacks on any of the ROI players, officials or fans etc

Above all, I will not accept that whatever did or did not happen that night, things are unchanged at Windsor in the 26 years since.

Which is what our prejudiced detractors like you would have people believe.

Back to Top
Territorial View Drop Down
Ray Houghton
Ray Houghton


Joined: 25 Nov 2014
Status: Offline
Points: 3625
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Territorial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2019 at 4:37pm
Originally posted by irishmufc irishmufc wrote:

Some false equivalency being made between Jack who was "out of order" and Billy who might have "tempered" his comments LOL in terms of who stoked up the pre-match atmosphere.  

You're deliberately minimizing Bingham's conduct/comments and exaggerating Jack's.  

If Jack had threw the classless mercenaries comment at the N.I. players, then you would have a better case to draw a comparison. 

Assuming Bingham isn't a bigot and acted out of character in the build up/during the match would you actually admit that he let himself down and was wrong?

Look, there was a responsibility on both managers to defuse the tension in the lead up to the game.

Both managers failed.

But only Bingham gets pilloried, whereas Charlton gets off scot-free.

Originally posted by irishmufc irishmufc wrote:

Regarding the video was Jack's reaction not understandable given the FIFA sideline moron who wouldn't let Aldo onto the pitch after Ireland had made the sub? 

Of course Charlton was provoked, and unfairly so.

But my point is, whereas some managers would have reacted more calmly, Charlton was one of those managers who was never going to do so, because he was a hothead.

Which is hardly the worst insult you can level at someone, but the relevance here is that his provocative remarks contributed to the tension at WP, just as Bingham's did.

Onlike some on here, you seem a reasonable sort. So why cannot you accept what I'm saying, it's straightfoward enough.
Back to Top
Trap junior View Drop Down
Robbie Keane
Robbie Keane
Avatar
www.revolut.com

Joined: 25 Jan 2010
Location: Milan, Italy
Status: Online
Points: 31345
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trap junior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2019 at 4:50pm
Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

Great to see you back down Terrence.  You've gone from the atmosphere being fine  and the worst thing being said was ''jammy bastards'' to admitting it was poisonous with racial abuse thrown in with sectarian abuse.
I have never said "the atmosphere was fine", or anything like it.

On the contrary, I have freely and consistently agreed that much of the chanting and singing was "shameful" and "disgraceful" etc.

But what I will not have is going from there to accepting:
(a ) all the fans were at it (they most certainly weren't); or that
(b ) Bingham encouraged the singing of a sectarian song (he most certainly didn't);
(c ) that it was somehow the worst spectator behaviour ever, considering there were no missiles, injuries, pitch invasions or attacks on any of the ROI players, officials or fans etc

Above all, I will not accept that whatever did or did not happen that night, things are unchanged at Windsor in the 26 years since.

Which is what our prejudiced detractors like you would have people believe.



If I'm prejudice then you are more so.  The behaviour was a disgrace and Bingham was waving on the crowd for more.  Its all on tv.  Just because you can't admit it you throw a hissy fit.  Then you make up stories about transport and try to come up with explanations for all sorts.  You even try to say it was par for the course in them days with your whataboutery referring to some Watford game and also trying to make yourselves look good in comparison to some animals at some other game in Turkey or wherever.
This is what happens when you grow up in the north .  You see the abnormal as normal.   
For all your Bitcoin enquiries contact David Meyler

Crap senior is my full time stalker.
Back to Top
irishmufc View Drop Down
Robbie Keane
Robbie Keane
Avatar
I love Vulvas

Joined: 09 Aug 2011
Location: Dublin
Status: Offline
Points: 20919
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote irishmufc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2019 at 5:01pm
Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Originally posted by irishmufc irishmufc wrote:

Some false equivalency being made between Jack who was "out of order" and Billy who might have "tempered" his comments LOL in terms of who stoked up the pre-match atmosphere.  

You're deliberately minimizing Bingham's conduct/comments and exaggerating Jack's.  

If Jack had threw the classless mercenaries comment at the N.I. players, then you would have a better case to draw a comparison. 

Assuming Bingham isn't a bigot and acted out of character in the build up/during the match would you actually admit that he let himself down and was wrong?

Look, there was a responsibility on both managers to defuse the tension in the lead up to the game.

Both managers failed. There's that equivalency again. 

But only Bingham gets pilloried, whereas Charlton gets off scot-free. Because Billy's behaviour/conduct/comments were worse in the build up. You'd have more of a point regarding Jack's 'Up Yours' to Billy after (not prior) to the game.

Originally posted by irishmufc irishmufc wrote:

Regarding the video was Jack's reaction not understandable given the FIFA sideline moron who wouldn't let Aldo onto the pitch after Ireland had made the sub? 

Of course Charlton was provoked, and unfairly so.

But my point is, whereas some managers would have reacted more calmly, Charlton was one of those managers who was never going to do so, because he was a hothead.

Which is hardly the worst insult you can level at someone, but the relevance here is that his provocative remarks contributed to the tension at WP, just as Bingham's did. 

Onlike some on here, you seem a reasonable sort. So why cannot you accept what I'm saying, it's straightfoward enough. I'm winding you up about Jack not being a hothead manager. Of course he was. LOL 

You can't even bring yourself to actually admit Billy's out of order insults towards some of our British born players was wrong and he let himself down in that regard. Just admit it. I'm sure OWC won't ban you if you dare to criticize Saint Billy. Then again knowing that homourless lot, they might. Wink


Edited by irishmufc - 06 Dec 2019 at 5:04pm
That was soft rock cocaine enthusiasts Fleetwood Mac
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 276277278279280>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.00
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.