We’re not Brasil we’re Tuaisceart Éireann |
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Territorial
Jack Charlton Joined: 25 Nov 2014 Status: Offline Points: 5817 |
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Which gives the lie to the claim that eg James McClean is "just as much" an Irishman as eg Seamus Coleman. That is, until Coleman moved to England at the age of 21, he had all the rights and responsibilities Dublin grants or demands as an Irish national. Whereas McClean has none of them, both before and after his move to England aged 22. To date, I have hesitated to use the term "second class citizen", since I appreciate how sensitive that must be. But let's be honest, the only government which is treating 'Nordies' as second class is not in Stormont or Westminster, but in Dublin.
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SuperDave84
Robbie Keane ooh Thomas, how could you do this to me! Joined: 26 Aug 2011 Location: Far Fungannon Status: Offline Points: 21384 |
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A government can treat residents different from non-residents. That is the issue. Nothing more. It does not change anyone's nationality. To be clear, the Irish government treats Irish citizens resident in the north differently than it does Irish citizens resident in the south. I do not want that to change without the consent of the people in the North, obviously enough. However, the Irish government does not treat those citizens separately on the basis of their citizenship, or how it was attained, but on the basis of their residence. I have no difficulty accepting that and I have no difficulty comprehending that. The distinction is residence, not citizenship. It does not make an Irish non-resident citizen any less Irish than an Irish resident citizen, whether they live in Duncannon, Dungannon, Dunstable or Dundee, Texas.
Edited by SuperDave84 - 23 Nov 2018 at 2:56pm |
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Territorial
Jack Charlton Joined: 25 Nov 2014 Status: Offline Points: 5817 |
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And this must be a separate principle from eg Donegal folk moving outside the jurisdiction losing their rights, since if they were alternatively from Dungannon, they'd never have had those rights in the first place. Which is only my point, whether you accept it or not. Anyhow, I've said my piece, and I still retain my arse intact, without need of anyone to hand it back to me, thank you very much.
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Het-field
Roy Keane By Appointment to His Majesty The King Joined: 08 Mar 2016 Status: Online Points: 10530 |
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Terri, sorry to butt in, but “residence” and “citizenship” are very different. And that applies in the UK, the US and many more countries.
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Territorial
Jack Charlton Joined: 25 Nov 2014 Status: Offline Points: 5817 |
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The problem is that Super Dave is attempting to use one specific aspect of citizenship (i.e. the effect of a change of residence on citizens' rights) to try to disprove my general point, which is that Dublin accords entirely different rights and duties on Irish citizens at birth. In other words, despite all their previous guff about "cherishing all the children of the nation equally" (or whatever it said), they in fact created two classes of Irish citizen, which my examples of Coleman and McClean demonstrate precisely.
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Territorial
Jack Charlton Joined: 25 Nov 2014 Status: Offline Points: 5817 |
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Simples.
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belfastkev
Joe Lapira Joined: 09 Oct 2017 Location: Béal Feirste Status: Offline Points: 18 |
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You really don't seem to have the mental capacity to understand that there are no different "classes" of citizenship. Citizenship is one discrete thing. Residency is another discrete thing. Eejit.
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amccarten313
Davey Langan Joined: 29 Mar 2015 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 988 |
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i cant imagine myself ever spending so much time on an NI forum...what a weird way to spend your free time
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Territorial
Jack Charlton Joined: 25 Nov 2014 Status: Offline Points: 5817 |
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Those granted it from the 26 acquire all sorts of rights, along with corresponding duties. Those granted it from the 6 acquire virtually none of these. Now for political reasons, the Dublin government may try to pretend that they're all the one, but in just about every practical application they're not. It's a bit like a bank offering you an account which includes all sorts of benefits like a credit card, an automatic overdraft and interest on credit balances, but also requires you to pay your wage into the account every month. They may offer me a straightforward no-frills deposit account, whereby I put any money I have in, and get to use their cash dispensers and a debit card, but will see the account closed should I go overdrawn. We're both "members" of the same bank, but we're very different customers. And you can be very sure which of the two of us the bank favours. But heyho, you can go on denying the differences all you like, if it makes you feel better.
Edited by Territorial - 25 Nov 2018 at 7:10pm |
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Territorial
Jack Charlton Joined: 25 Nov 2014 Status: Offline Points: 5817 |
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Meanwhile, I only came back onto this site following a long period of absence, because the NI team played the ROI team a week and a half ago. (You must have seen it, it was in all the papers). Anyhow, depending on time and inclination, I may be off elsewhere soon enough, and you know what? People on here will probably start asking, "Whatever happened to Territorial?", as seems to have happened the last time. So make your minds up.
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Trap junior
Robbie Keane YBIG Minister of Doom & Gloom Joined: 25 Jan 2010 Location: Irish Riviera Status: Offline Points: 39753 |
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Terry whats your views on Nordie Tayto versus Taig Tayto? Also Smiths Monster Munch versus the Taig Mighty Munch?
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Pied Piper to: Baldrick, Brendan 88, 9Fingers, Borussia and more...
97.6% chance this post will be replied to by Baldrick (source: PWC) |
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Il Principe
Davey Langan Joined: 30 Mar 2012 Status: Offline Points: 959 |
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this is complete nonsense, i myself was born in galway to tyrone parents. we moved to antrim 6 months later where i have lived ever since. i do not have any different citizen rights from anyone born in antrim
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Territorial
Jack Charlton Joined: 25 Nov 2014 Status: Offline Points: 5817 |
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irishmufc
Robbie Keane I love Vulvas Joined: 09 Aug 2011 Location: Dublin Status: Online Points: 25057 |
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http://https://www.sportsjoe.ie/football/ireland-northern-ireland-euro-2020-186616
Best of luck lads You have better away trips to look forward to than we do which is probably the only plus you could take from that tough draw. I think O'Neill would be wiser to revert back to a more defensive approach than what we seen in the Nations League. It's a resurgent Dutch team that still doesn't have too many standout players you'd call world class. Germany are at a low ebb but I'd be stunned if they didn't get back to their usual qualification 'without too much of a fuss' mode. I think Germany will top the group and may do N.I. a favour by getting revenge on the Dutch in the two games. N.I. are capable of beating the Dutch at home and holding out for an away draw but I still Holland doing enough to finish ahead of them. Edited by irishmufc - 02 Dec 2018 at 2:03pm |
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Wings? They're only the band The Beatles could have been.
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Denis Irwin
Robbie Keane Stay Home & watch Lethal Weapon Joined: 03 Feb 2008 Location: Ath Cliath Status: Online Points: 37941 |
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Eamonn Dunphy:"I'll tell you who wrote it, Rod Liddle, he's the guy who ran away and left his wife for a young one".
Bill O'Herlihy: Ah ye can't be saying that now Eamonn |
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BrendanD88
Jack Charlton 99% of my posts are emojis Joined: 29 Mar 2013 Location: Co Down Status: Offline Points: 9981 |
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irishmufc
Robbie Keane I love Vulvas Joined: 09 Aug 2011 Location: Dublin Status: Online Points: 25057 |
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I should've worded that better. N.I. are capable of beating them and gettign a result away but I don't see it happening.I expect Holland to take at least 4 points of NI and this finishing ahead of them.
Edited by irishmufc - 02 Dec 2018 at 2:19pm |
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Wings? They're only the band The Beatles could have been.
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horsebox
Robbie Keane Born n bred in darndale. Joined: 03 Feb 2010 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 34815 |
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Unlikely, the Dutch team are going through a strong period with some excellent results. The North of Ireland are on a downward spiral.
Holland just topped their Nations league with France and Germany. |
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It was far across the sea,
When the devil got a hold of me, He wouldn't set me free, So he kept me soul for ransom. na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na na. I'm a sailor man from Glasgow to |
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