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Ray Houghton
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote planning Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2019 at 6:25pm
Originally posted by doherty doherty wrote:

I agree. I thought new technology great. Its a no brainer. But remember when platini and all those guys were hesitant on this when they said it would take away from the essence of the game. The passion etc...you know i think they were right. Yes we were screwed in Paris but you didnt need VAR that night to spot what went on.

Yes we did, as it turns out. It might have stopped the whole team berating the ref for starters, and we would still be in the WC. 

Paris, Brussels, Sofia, Gelsenkirchen... We should have had technology in the sport 30 years ago, like Cricket did. A refusal to embrace change stopped it, and is stalling it's progress now. We can use technology for everything from  passing accuracy percentages to monitoring players diets to handing down bans, but we can't use it when we really need it, to enforce Fair Play on the pitch? No, that has to change. Platini and his mates, are now banned from all football activity, after being exposed as a shower of fraudsters and conmen.  

Originally posted by doherty doherty wrote:

i hear danny murphy speak but hes not a fan of VAR now either. Im paraphrasing him here but he said do we want to see goals disallowed just because someone might be a millimetre offisde? I know i dont. And thousand or millions of people dont either. Its in now and no theres no going back but i think a big part of the game will be lost.

What will be lost are wrong decisions. We need goals disallowed if someone is a millimetre offside. It's offside, end of. Amazing how many people don't understand that rather simple fact. This is Fair Play in action, not just a token slogan in the centre circle. 

Murphy is a populist flip flopper on VAR. First he hated it before the WC, then he loved it after the WC, now he hates it again. So when he sees that the public love it, he'll love it again. I get his "what about the fans" laments. I hold back celebrating if my team scores, when I'm not 100% sure the goal/decision will stand. When the goal is confirmed, I'm still delighted. If it doesn't stand, then we move swiftly on. I don't complain, I don't howl at the moon with "VAR is fucin shte", as I know VAR is not the problem. There's clearly a valid reason(s) why the decision has to be changed. I never want to walk out of a stadium ever again, conned by cheating players and/or robbed by incompetent officials, I've done it for long enough.  

He, like you, me and everyone else is just going to have to get used to this, because it isn't going away. This works. All VAR decisions last weekend were spot on, as they will be for the next 9 months. Even the brits should be well used to it by then.
VAR: Cutting the crap out of football.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hans Moleman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2019 at 6:47pm
It might have stopped the whole team berating the referee you say LOL LOL like you claimed no players berated the refs at the Copa America and Women's World Cups this summer? LOL LOL

F*ckin hell, you are way beyond delusional at this stage
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hans Moleman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2019 at 6:55pm
Btw, what works? What version of VAR are you saying works? There are currently numerous different VAR systems at play in all parts of the world. These all apply different processes to their decision making, and how much they will interfere with the on field calls by the referee varies. Is that the uniformity that you said exists with VAR across the board now in football and tha that nothing will change that in future? LOL

"I called him an embarrassment to FIFA and to himself," .... He said 'No-one speaks to me like that'.... and I said, "well I do' and that was that."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SuperDave84 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2019 at 7:05pm
Originally posted by planning planning wrote:

Originally posted by doherty doherty wrote:

I agree. I thought new technology great. Its a no brainer. But remember when platini and all those guys were hesitant on this when they said it would take away from the essence of the game. The passion etc...you know i think they were right. Yes we were screwed in Paris but you didnt need VAR that night to spot what went on.

Yes we did, as it turns out. It might have stopped the whole team berating the ref for starters, and we would still be in the WC. 

Paris, Brussels, Sofia, Gelsenkirchen... We should have had technology in the sport 30 years ago, like Cricket did. A refusal to embrace change stopped it, and is stalling it's progress now. We can use technology for everything from  passing accuracy percentages to monitoring players diets to handing down bans, but we can't use it when we really need it, to enforce Fair Play on the pitch? No, that has to change. Platini and his mates, are now banned from all football activity, after being exposed as a shower of fraudsters and conmen.  

Originally posted by doherty doherty wrote:

i hear danny murphy speak but hes not a fan of VAR now either. Im paraphrasing him here but he said do we want to see goals disallowed just because someone might be a millimetre offisde? I know i dont. And thousand or millions of people dont either. Its in now and no theres no going back but i think a big part of the game will be lost.

What will be lost are wrong decisions. We need goals disallowed if someone is a millimetre offside. It's offside, end of. Amazing how many people don't understand that rather simple fact. This is Fair Play in action, not just a token slogan in the centre circle. 

Murphy is a populist flip flopper on VAR. First he hated it before the WC, then he loved it after the WC, now he hates it again. So when he sees that the public love it, he'll love it again. I get his "what about the fans" laments. I hold back celebrating if my team scores, when I'm not 100% sure the goal/decision will stand. When the goal is confirmed, I'm still delighted. If it doesn't stand, then we move swiftly on. I don't complain, I don't howl at the moon with "VAR is fucin shte", as I know VAR is not the problem. There's clearly a valid reason(s) why the decision has to be changed. I never want to walk out of a stadium ever again, conned by cheating players and/or robbed by incompetent officials, I've done it for long enough.  

He, like you, me and everyone else is just going to have to get used to this, because it isn't going away. This works. All VAR decisions last weekend were spot on, as they will be for the next 9 months. Even the brits should be well used to it by then.


If the difference in player position between one frame and the next can be in the region of 200mm, there's just no way you can say VAR says whether someone is definitely onside or offside.

It simply isn't infallible or that accurate, and stop pretending it is.
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Ray Houghton
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote planning Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2019 at 7:07pm
Originally posted by Zinedine Kilbane 110 Zinedine Kilbane 110 wrote:

]I would like VAR to be used for the ‘obvious’ errors i.e. when the player is yard offside or clear handball.

I don’t like the decisions down to the MM. IMO sterling’s goal should have stood. You want your striker trying to steal a little advantage.

The replay should be looked at once in slow motion with no freeze frame and a decision made then.
If it’s an obvious error then more will be picked up (not everything) but that’s better for the game. It will be quick and the game moves on.

I don’t think every decision being micro analysed is good for the game.

Yes it is. Weeding out the cheats from the fair players is what the game needs. There's hundreds of millions of Euro* resting on the right decision made. 

There is zero tolerance for offside. A mm is as good as a mile. It's still offside. A goal that results should not, and does not count with VAR in operation. We have the technology to see that it doesn't, and now it is being used. 

*whatever currency you want. 
VAR: Cutting the crap out of football.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hans Moleman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2019 at 7:25pm
My God LOL
"I called him an embarrassment to FIFA and to himself," .... He said 'No-one speaks to me like that'.... and I said, "well I do' and that was that."
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Ray Houghton
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote planning Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2019 at 7:31pm
Originally posted by SuperDave84 SuperDave84 wrote:

If the difference in player position between one frame and the next can be in the region of 200mm, there's just no way you can say VAR says whether someone is definitely onside or offside.

It simply isn't infallible or that accurate.

The replay operator in the hub has access to multiple camera angles simultaneously. So when the frame is stopped, you know it's the correct one. The technology is the best there is, so we go with whatever it says. 

Later in the same game, it was used to verify a player was onside, and the goal given. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hans Moleman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2019 at 7:45pm
You are different gravy planning LOL the actual level of delusion, denial and plain stupidity is a sight to behold Clap
"I called him an embarrassment to FIFA and to himself," .... He said 'No-one speaks to me like that'.... and I said, "well I do' and that was that."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SuperDave84 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2019 at 10:23pm
Originally posted by planning planning wrote:

The replay operator in the hub has access to multiple camera angles simultaneously. So when the frame is stopped, you know it's the correct one. The technology is the best there is, so we go with whatever it says. 

Later in the same game, it was used to verify a player was onside, and the goal given. 


I'll dumb it down as much as I can: when the frame is stopped, hopefully it is the *closest* to correct; that's all you know. If the player is 10cm onside in one frame, and 5cm offside in the next, and all you know is that the ball is played sometime between the two frames, VAR will not decide the matter for certain; those figures are perfectly possible figures and could well be greater.

The technology is the best there is; that does not make it perfect. I agree we should use it, but f**k me kid, if you can't see it's not absolutely perfect, you're ignoring basic junior cert maths. I'll not claim it is primary school maths but there are definitely 10 year olds who could understand it; point is, it is not infallible.


Edited by SuperDave84 - 13 Aug 2019 at 10:25pm
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Ray Houghton
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote planning Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2019 at 10:43pm
There's nothing to dumb down. I have no reason not to trust the software used by VAR, so I'm not going to invent conspiracy theories to discredit it, or it's findings. Despite some peoples best efforts, a camera cannot be conned.

I'm dealing with opponents who can't accept that VAR is finally correcting injustices in the game and/or want it scrapped. Well they're going to have a long season of misery ahead of them. 


VAR: Cutting the crap out of football.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hans Moleman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Aug 2019 at 11:11pm
Conspiracy theories LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

Ah there's no way you're serious and you can't comprehend that those tv freeze frames as they are, are simply not 100 percent spot on? As I've said with other sports like tennis which is far easier to use a technology system, even then it's widely known that the Hawkeye is not 100 percent correct. 

Football technology is way behind other sports. There are far more moving parts when those freeze frames are required for offside. We are years away from anything close to being 100 percent accurate on tight offside calls.


Edited by Hans Moleman - 13 Aug 2019 at 11:12pm
"I called him an embarrassment to FIFA and to himself," .... He said 'No-one speaks to me like that'.... and I said, "well I do' and that was that."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote planning Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 2019 at 1:53am
The technology has been extensively tested, experimented, verified, implemented at club and international level over several years. We wouldn't be using it if it was anything less than 100% accurate. Nor would other sports use it in theirs.

Like I said, if you don't like how VAR implements the rules, change the rules. I'm sure IFAB are open to ideas. Until then, these are the rules we have to work with, and they're enforced as they're supposed to be. Scrapping VAR brings rampant cheating and injustice back into the game. I can't support that, sorry. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hans Moleman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 2019 at 9:52am
You realise that in numerous other sports using technology that their systems are constantly reported as not being 100 percent accurate ,but the results of the system are accepted nonetheless. Tennis Hawkeye system is not 100 percent accurate. This is widely known.

Why do you keep coming on this thread and writing utter nonsense? 

Every handball will now result in a penalty with VAR - 100 percent false.

VAR has removed any abuse or harassment of refs - 100 percent false.

VAR will be operated in the exact same way across the board in different leagues and different competitions - 100 percent false.

The amount of time it takes to come to a decision is irrelevant - utter nonsense.

The technology now is 100 percent accurate on offside - the height of utter nonsense.




Edited by Hans Moleman - 14 Aug 2019 at 9:54am
"I called him an embarrassment to FIFA and to himself," .... He said 'No-one speaks to me like that'.... and I said, "well I do' and that was that."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Devrozex Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 2019 at 10:04am
Originally posted by Hans Moleman Hans Moleman wrote:

I do love that this system that has been in use for years now has no semblance of uniformity whatsoever LOL it is a complete sh*tshow

 
There's no uniformity in facilities/technology so I'm not sure why you would expect the system to work uniformly across the globe. I don't see any real issue with the article you posted - in the MLS they don't have enough cameras at grounds to be able to make calls on marginal offsides so they don't get involved. In the PL however they believe they do have sufficient cameras/technology to be 100% accurate.
 
VAR made a number of calls at the weekend and from what I could tell every single one of them was correct.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Denis Irwin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 2019 at 10:28am
Edit: Wrong thread

Edited by Denis Irwin - 14 Aug 2019 at 10:29am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hans Moleman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 2019 at 11:01am
Originally posted by Devrozex Devrozex wrote:

Originally posted by Hans Moleman Hans Moleman wrote:

I do love that this system that has been in use for years now has no semblance of uniformity whatsoever LOL it is a complete sh*tshow

 
There's no uniformity in facilities/technology so I'm not sure why you would expect the system to work uniformly across the globe. I don't see any real issue with the article you posted - in the MLS they don't have enough cameras at grounds to be able to make calls on marginal offsides so they don't get involved. In the PL however they believe they do have sufficient cameras/technology to be 100% accurate.
 
VAR made a number of calls at the weekend and from what I could tell every single one of them was correct.

I was highlighting the fact that planning said that VAR would would run the same way in all leagues and competitions. That all rules would be dealt with the same in different countries and their respective leagues. That was never going to be the case as the technology at every ground varies.

As far as you could tell the calls are the weekend were correct. You cannot be sure though as there is most definitely a decent margin for error. The technology simply isn't there to be 100 percent definitive. With that, they need to reassess how they deal with offsides especially in the PL. If they are keeping the flag down for all tight attacking plays, they are essentially passing the buck after to VAR to make the call. Except VAR is not 100 percent accurate on office calls. 
"I called him an embarrassment to FIFA and to himself," .... He said 'No-one speaks to me like that'.... and I said, "well I do' and that was that."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hans Moleman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 2019 at 11:33am
Planning, did you jot down the Brighton handball vs Watford in your notebook? Clear handball, VAR checked and said nothing doing. Oh and Perreira chased the ref about it for good measure. 2 for the price of 1 LOL LOL LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roberto Baggio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 2019 at 11:37am
The Brighton handball is the only decision of the weekend that I saw that I think VAR got wrong.
 
 
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