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Zinedine Kilbane 110 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zinedine Kilbane 110 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 2018 at 1:26pm
Originally posted by planning planning wrote:

Originally posted by Hans Moleman Hans Moleman wrote:

The biggest problem with the length of time it's taking to make decisions is that you're going to have a situation in a massive match yet where a penalty call is turned down at one end, the ball is stuck in the net at the other end in the same phase of play, and before ko the ref rules out the goal and goes back for a penalty. The quickness of decision making is absolutely vital for this to work. Its comically bad at the moment.

If a penalty should be given, it will be given, thus rendering the rest of the move useless. 

This is the future of officiating, where the right decision is always made, not sometimes made, as is currently the case. Even on the 50-50 calls, a valid case can usually be made for why the VAR came to it's final decision. 

There will be a time at this WC when a VAR will be needed to send a team through and knock a team out. So if it takes 5 minutes to reach the correct decision, so be it.

I don't know if it's just me, but I've noticed that diving has been effectively wiped out when watching VAR games. And that can only benefit football.

At the end of the day football is entertainment for the fans.
The decisions need to be made within 2 mins imo.
Anything around 5 mins is way to long.

Hopefully diving is wiped out but it’s still happening with VAR.
I’d have no problem with a red card for a deliberate dive.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote planning Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 2018 at 7:30am
As I keep saying when deadlines are proposed for decisions, what's the rush? VAR or no VAR, the game is still going to take the best part of 2 hours anyway. If it's too long for some people, I'm sure there are plenty of other sports to watch. 

We still talk about Paris 09, Brussels 81, Sofia 77, to mention three of many injustices we've endured down the years. That's just our team, let alone the rest. VAR Is designed to put a stop to all that. Better to wait a bit of time to get the right decision, than be still talking about the (consequences of the) wrong one decades later.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Huntacha Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 2018 at 8:56am
Originally posted by planning planning wrote:

As I keep saying when deadlines are proposed for decisions, what's the rush? VAR or no VAR, the game is still going to take the best part of 2 hours anyway. If it's too long for some people, I'm sure there are plenty of other sports to watch. 

We still talk about Paris 09, Brussels 81, Sofia 77, to mention three of many injustices we've endured down the years. That's just our team, let alone the rest. VAR Is designed to put a stop to all that. Better to wait a bit of time to get the right decision, than be still talking about the (consequences of the) wrong one decades later.
 
Agreed, it doesn't take that long for people watching on tv to find out if it was the correct decision or not so the same should apply to the officials.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote alihau41 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 2018 at 10:00am
Originally posted by AntrimMan AntrimMan wrote:

Originally posted by alihau41 alihau41 wrote:

Originally posted by lassassinblanc lassassinblanc wrote:

Originally posted by alihau41 alihau41 wrote:

i think that each team should get one VAR referral a match, and it is their choice as to when to use it. if they get it right, then they keep their referral, otherwise that's that for the rest of the match. it'll cut out a lot of the issues that have gone on before.


I think maybe more then 1 would have to be used perhaps 3 like in say Tennis.
 
 
well, if you get the referral correct, then you keep your original one to use again. 3 per team, if all used, could potentially add an extra 30 mins to a game (exaggerating it saying 5 min per referral, but it's happened regularly)!

Not convinced that if you gave managers or team captain say, that ability, that it wouldn't be used cynically to say, disrupt a game if a team is mounting a comeback in injury time etc.

The current process is awful. Technology is obviously there but its implementation so far smacks of wanting it to fail.
 
 
you can say that, but that's a waste of a referral in order to relieve pressure for a couple of minutes. considering the fact that VAR will only be used around goal scoring opportunities/incidents, then I can't see how it can be used cynically, especially if a team is in a backs-against-the-wall situation and protecting a lead or holding on for a draw
 
 
also, if you have 3 referrals per team, then yes, it gives the potential to use tactically. but one referral per team removes that aspect
 


Edited by alihau41 - 20 Apr 2018 at 10:01am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roberto Baggio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 2018 at 10:03am
I wouldn't have a referral system at all.
Have it like rugby's VAR, not tennis.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lassassinblanc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 2018 at 11:16am
Originally posted by Roberto Baggio Roberto Baggio wrote:

I wouldn't have a referral system at all.
Have it like rugby's VAR, not tennis.
 
 


Well in rugby the captain of the team can ask the ref to have an incident looked into don't think there is any limit though. Of course respect for the ref in rugby is much better then football
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SuperDave84 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Apr 2018 at 3:54pm
The referral system wouldn't work. It is much better in the ref's hands, and for limited calls. Things like goals, penalties and red cards. Beyond that, it's too much hassle.

The challenge flag works in NFL because of the stop start nature of the game. The system works in tennis because the outcome is simple: it's either in or out and the point is decided clearly (most of the time). But a referral system isn't used in rugby, because the game doesn't stop so frequently. In soccer, it probably stops less frequently, or certainly has the potential to last for some time before a natural break in play. A referral system is tough to implement without it having the potential to be used tactically.

Let the ref make the referral if he sees fit. Let the VAR have a direct line to the ref's earpiece to alert him if he needs to go to it. But don't let the managers or captain have that right. Then, it easily becomes less about making sure the right decision is made (which is what VAR should be for) than about how to game the system.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote planning Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 2018 at 8:01am
Originally posted by Zinedine Kilbane 110 Zinedine Kilbane 110 wrote:

At the end of the day football is entertainment for the fans.
The decisions need to be made within 2 mins imo.
Anything around 5 mins is way to long.

Hopefully diving is wiped out but it’s still happening with VAR.
I’d have no problem with a red card for a deliberate dive.

At the WC, decisions are taking nearer to 2 minutes than 5. Some of them are resolved in less than a minute, from the review called to the decision given, including the ref going to watch it. Fans and broadcasters in the stadiums know what's happening. While diving is practically non existent. 

All the earlier criticisms have been addressed, but we can't have it in the EPL or EC next season though. It takes longer to take goalkicks ffs. Angry
VAR: Cutting the crap out of football.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eboue16 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 2018 at 11:27am
Originally posted by planning planning wrote:

Originally posted by Zinedine Kilbane 110 Zinedine Kilbane 110 wrote:

At the end of the day football is entertainment for the fans.
The decisions need to be made within 2 mins imo.
Anything around 5 mins is way to long.

Hopefully diving is wiped out but it’s still happening with VAR.
I’d have no problem with a red card for a deliberate dive.

At the WC, decisions are taking nearer to 2 minutes than 5. Some of them are resolved in less than a minute, from the review called to the decision given, including the ref going to watch it. Fans and broadcasters in the stadiums know what's happening. While diving is practically non existent. 

All the earlier criticisms have been addressed, but we can't have it in the EPL or EC next season though. It takes longer to take goalkicks ffs. Angry

Where it is though there seems to be a serious reluctance to book anyone. Victor Moses got away with about 4 and hes just one of many examples.

The standard of reffing has been on a whole quite high and easy to see why no premiership ref got the gig. Imagine Mike Dean on the world stage with VAR. He'd be in his element
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baldrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 2018 at 11:30am
On the whole it has been a success.  It's not perfect but very few things in life are but it's a massive improvement and it has helped the refs and the teams massively.  Good decision to bring it in .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roberto Baggio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 2018 at 11:36am
The narrative today from English pundits is how much of a disaster and waste of time it is.
Thought it was working well myself.
They must be basing it on Harry Kane's 2 penalty incidents
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote planning Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 2018 at 12:58pm
They didn't appeal for either of them on the pitch iirc. 

In last year's Confed Cup, Chile had a stonewall penalty turned down in the semi final. They were later told it wasn't reviewed because they didn't appeal for it. So obviously if you appeal, you have a better chance of getting a decision reviewed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary McKay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 2018 at 3:20pm
Originally posted by planning planning wrote:

They didn't appeal for either of them on the pitch iirc. 
In last year's Confed Cup, Chile had a stonewall penalty turned down in the semi final. They were later told it wasn't reviewed because they didn't appeal for it. So obviously if you appeal, you have a better chance of getting a decision reviewed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bhob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 2018 at 3:49pm
Originally posted by planning planning wrote:

They didn't appeal for either of them on the pitch iirc. 

In last year's Confed Cup, Chile had a stonewall penalty turned down in the semi final. They were later told it wasn't reviewed because they didn't appeal for it. So obviously if you appeal, you have a better chance of getting a decision reviewed.
 
Isn't the VAR ref reviewing the footage at all times and it's their suggestion for the ref on the pitch to take a look at it again?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bhob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 2018 at 4:16pm
It's been confirmed that the VAR team did review the incidents and decided to do nothing about them
https://streamable.com/i0thj
 
You'd have to think there's something dodgy going on here as they're both stonewall penos
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roberto Baggio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 2018 at 2:47pm
The refs seem reluctant to book players for diving in this tournament, even after a VAR review
Lad for Senegal's dive yesterday was as clear as day
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mbyrne15 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2018 at 12:58pm
Originally posted by Roberto Baggio Roberto Baggio wrote:

The refs seem reluctant to book players for diving in this tournament, even after a VAR review
Lad for Senegal's dive yesterday was as clear as day

Massive shame alright, i think there has been at least 2/3 dives in every game, and i think not one yellow card shown for diving?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bob Hoskins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2018 at 1:06pm
This might have been answered in this thread. but what happens in this situation. 

Ball goes into the box of Argentina, ref gives no penalty to Peru, teams play on and 10 seconds later Argentina score. VAR have told ref they were reviewing the incident in the box and that was a penalty

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