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Ray Houghton
Ray Houghton

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Points: 3836 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote planning Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 2019 at 6:13pm
Originally posted by SuperDave84 SuperDave84 wrote:

You're being obtuse. As has been explained before, the frame rate and frame selection are huge issues with VAR.

Simply put, on offside, VAR is better at making the correct decisions but VAR is not guaranteed to always make the correct decision.

Yes it is accurate. The technology has been extensively tested over several years, and has been tested 2 more years in the English games before this season, it's the best there is. So the frame we see is the moment the ball was played. In UEFA games, there are 2 VAR's per game whose only job is to monitor offsides. So if they say it's offside, then it's offside. There is no grey area. 

Stephen Warnock was bawling crying afterwards about how long it took, as apparently it took a bit longer than normal. So what, we got the correct decision. He's lucky refs are not referring more incidents to be checked and going to the monitors like they do in other leagues. 
VAR: Cutting the crap out of football.
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Originally posted by planning planning wrote:

Originally posted by SuperDave84 SuperDave84 wrote:

You're being obtuse. As has been explained before, the frame rate and frame selection are huge issues with VAR.

Simply put, on offside, VAR is better at making the correct decisions but VAR is not guaranteed to always make the correct decision.

Yes it is accurate. The technology has been extensively tested over several years, and has been tested 2 more years in the English games before this season, it's the best there is. So the frame we see is the moment the ball was played. In UEFA games, there are 2 VAR's per game whose only job is to monitor offsides. So if they say it's offside, then it's offside. There is no grey area. 

Stephen Warnock was bawling crying afterwards about how long it took, as apparently it took a bit longer than normal. So what, we got the correct decision. He's lucky refs are not referring more incidents to be checked and going to the monitors like they do in other leagues. 


You're either an idiot or a troll and you're blatantly ignoring what I've posted because it doesn't fit your preconceived notion that VAR is perfect (you've a dose of confirmation bias). The "moment" of release can clearly fall between two frames and you are completely ignoring that.

I'll finish on this: there are two rules for online discussion, and this is why I've nothing else to add:

1) don't argue with an idiot because they'll lower you to their level then beat you on experience; and

2) don't feed the trolls.
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Dave if everybody went by the first rule the forum would be blank :)

Edited by Baldrick - 21 Sep 2019 at 7:13pm
AKA pedantic kunt
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Discussing abd arguing over VAR is worse than waiting for a slow VAR decision to come through.

Just stop
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I know there's a fatal flaw in this logic, but when a defending team isn't objecting to it, VAR should leave it the f**k alone. Nobody would have questioned it if they'd left the Spurs goal as per the in-game officials decision today.

Ditto the winner in the City/Spurs game a few weeks back too.

They're the oens people hate, when nobody notices a thing, then 2 mns later VAR notices something.
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Ray Houghton
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Originally posted by SuperDave84 SuperDave84 wrote:

You're blatantly ignoring what I've posted because it doesn't fit your preconceived notion that VAR is perfect. The "moment" of release can clearly fall between two frames and you are completely ignoring that.

Now your argument has been shown up as a one big conspiracy theory, you resort to insults. 

I don't do conspiracy theories. Offside decisions are black and white. They always were before VAR, they still are now. Now we have the technology to separate fact from fiction and it's been used in England, and in every major competition across the world. We use it because it's 100% reliable. Despite your valient attempts to do so, a camera cannot be conned. 
VAR: Cutting the crap out of football.
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It’s not 100% the technology is not there to keep up with the movement of three different things. the ball, the attacking player and the defending player. It’s better than a human but it’s not 100% reliable. 
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Football is ruined

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Originally posted by Zinedine Kilbane 110 Zinedine Kilbane 110 wrote:

Football is ruined


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Ray Houghton
Ray Houghton

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Originally posted by Zinedine Kilbane 110 Zinedine Kilbane 110 wrote:

Football is ruined


Football is enhanced when the right decision is made, as in this case. If people don't like the rules, they can change the rules. The VAR will then apply the new rules at the next opportunity. We have VAR to see that FIFA Fair Play is enforced, not just a token slogan before the start of a game. 
VAR: Cutting the crap out of football.
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Kevin Kilbane
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Originally posted by SuperDave84 SuperDave84 wrote:

You're being obtuse. As has been explained before, the frame rate and frame selection are huge issues with VAR.

The maximum relative velocity of two elite level players sprinting in opposite directions is about 20 metres per second (10 metres per second each).

The frame rate of the cameras currently used for VAR is the same as broadcast cameras and is 50 frames per second.

That means, in one frame, top level players can move 40cm in opposite directions.

In general, of course, it is a lot less than that (it is very rare to have a defender sprinting out and a forward sprinting through just as a pass is played, especially at top speed).

However, positions of half that (where a defender is stepping up as a forward is sprinting through) are not exactly infrequent.

And, where the position is as follows:

In the last frame before the ball is released, the receiving player is onside; and
In the first frame after the ball is released, the receiving player is offside; and
Where the ball is released at some stage between those two frames (that is, it is in contact with the passer's foot in the first frame but not in contact in the second frame (I'm assuming a foot pass, rather than, say, a header, not that it makes a difference)); then

VAR does *not* assist in making the factual decision of what position the receiving player was in at the point of release, for so long as the frame rate is 50 frames per second and where the pass occurs within the parameters above.

I appreciate that is very rare but you simply cannot claim that VAR is flawless, especially where the frame selection is a human element. The decision may be factual but VAR has technical and human limitations that mean there may be circumstances where it does not deliver an answer that is guaranteed to be the correct one. There is no doubt it is better at giving correct results than what went before but it is not flawless and it does no favours to advocates for VAR to claim that it is.

Simply put, on offside, VAR is better at making the correct decisions but VAR is not guaranteed to always make the correct decision.
The FPS isn't 50. They aren't using their Sky subscription to live broadcast streams. Why do people fall for this crap that the VAR are using a commercially broadcasted stream with fps limits? They aren't. They have ultra slow mo cameras with over 200 fps, some upto 360 fps depending on which they are using specifically. 

Nor is it checked at when the ball is released. Offside is checked at the first contact of the ball not when it leaves the foot. 
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Each week the officials and those in charge of VAR outdo their stupidity and incompetence from the previous week

The handball by Sokratis late in the game today not being a penalty is the latest one


Edited by Roberto Baggio - 22 Sep 2019 at 10:51pm
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Dinamo Zagreb defender punches the ball away when a cross comes in
No penalty after a VAR review

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VAR a shambles in that city game
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VAR is a great idea but unlike in other sports they haven’t a clue how to use it in football 

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Some of the angles they showed during the penalty incident at Anfield were ridiculous. If that's what the video ref is looking at, no wonder they struggle to make correct decisions.
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Robbie Keane
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Liverpool were a bit blessed today. It did look like a penalty in real time, then on the replay you would say it was a bit harsh. 
There was a bit of contact and a tangle, but Mane made a meal of it. 
If it was against Liverpool or Ireland then I’d be well pissed off
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Worked very well at WH today (unfortunately). Linesman gave Palace goal offside in 89th minute, Var reviewed, gave the peanlty. Would have been controversial if the goal hadn't been awarded
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