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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Devrozex Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Sep 2019 at 12:14pm
Originally posted by BrendanD88 BrendanD88 wrote:

Originally posted by Devrozex Devrozex wrote:

A lot of people thought the introduction of VAR would lead to a rake load more penalties in the PL - after a few weeks into the season though the opposite is true. Referees seem to be abdicating responsibility on the closer calls now - i.e unless it's stone wall they just don't do anything and allow VAR to review it. The problem with that is that VAR isn't overruling the ref on anything unless it is completely blatant that they got it wrong.


Yea Mike Dean had no interest in consulting VAR over the Fredericks penalty incident at the end of last night's game. I thought it was a penalty.
 
That was a perfect example of it in action alright. Also thought that was a penalty.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Territorial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Sep 2019 at 12:22pm
Originally posted by planning planning wrote:

If you know anything about football, you know that you can't handle the ball in this sport. Those defenders who handle the ball in the penalty area, are at risk of conceding a penalty. It's been like that since the 1860's. It's still the case today. 

"If you know anything about football", you'd know that penalties weren't even introduced to the game until 1891, at the instigation of an Ulsterman, William McCrum of Milford, Co. Armagh:



And even if you don't go back that far(!), you should still know that until this season (2019/20), it was specified that for a handball to concede a penalty, it had to be "deliberate".

Of course that requirement was removed from 1st July, but it was still in place for the CL Final, where even UEFA's own technical report indicated that Sissoko's "handball" was not deliberate:
"Indeed, just 21 seconds had passed when Sadio Mané checked back on himself on the left-hand corner of the Tottenham Hotspur box and chipped over the first cross of the night, with Sissoko standing barely two metres away, right arm extended to signal to a team-mate. The ball struck his underarm and Liverpool had their penalty."
https://es.uefa.com/MultimediaFiles/Download/Publications/uefaorg/General/02/61/96/22/2619622_DOWNLOAD.pdf
(See page 9)



Edited by Territorial - 17 Sep 2019 at 12:23pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote planning Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Sep 2019 at 12:56pm
Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

even if you don't go back that far(!), you should still know that until this season (2019/20), it was specified that for a handball to concede a penalty, it had to be "deliberate".

Of course that requirement was removed from 1st July, but it was still in place for the CL Final, where even UEFA's own technical report indicated that Sissoko's "handball" was not deliberate:
"Indeed, just 21 seconds had passed when Sadio Mané checked back on himself on the left-hand corner of the Tottenham Hotspur box and chipped over the first cross of the night, with Sissoko standing barely two metres away, right arm extended to signal to a team-mate. The ball struck his underarm and Liverpool had their penalty."

They don't have to say whether it's deliberate or not. The new handball rules came into force on June 1, the day of the European Cup Final. 25 seconds and 1 handball later, bang. The VAR team said it was "penalty 100%"
VAR: Cutting the crap out of football.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hans Moleman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Sep 2019 at 2:15pm
Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

The penalty box wasn’t even introduced until the 1900’s...

LOL LOL LOL

Facts eh
"I called him an embarrassment to FIFA and to himself," .... He said 'No-one speaks to me like that'.... and I said, "well I do' and that was that."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hans Moleman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Sep 2019 at 2:19pm
Bang it's a penalty LOL

Planning, do you understand that the majority of handballs by players in their own box will not result in penalties? Which is exactly correct as per the laws of the game, both current and past.
"I called him an embarrassment to FIFA and to himself," .... He said 'No-one speaks to me like that'.... and I said, "well I do' and that was that."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roberto Baggio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Sep 2019 at 2:32pm
Did you know that in a Roy of the Rovers sketch from the 1970s, a VAR type decision was made on the big screen in the stadium.
 
Interesting.
 
Anyway, back to Moleman v Planning.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Sep 2019 at 6:09pm
Originally posted by Roberto Baggio Roberto Baggio wrote:

Did you know that in a Roy of the Rovers sketch from the 1970s, a VAR type decision was made on the big screen in the stadium.
 
Interesting.
 
Anyway, back to Moleman v Planning.
 
 
Really? Any links?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FrankosHereNow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Sep 2019 at 9:42pm
Looked like Robertson got a touch on that. Why didn’t it go to VAR?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sham157 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Sep 2019 at 10:27pm
Originally posted by Hans Moleman Hans Moleman wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

The penalty box wasn’t even introduced until the 1900’s...

LOL LOL LOL

Facts eh
of course Planning ignores and then disappears when this little tit bit of info is sharedLOL

Edited by Sham157 - 17 Sep 2019 at 10:27pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote planning Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 2019 at 6:37pm
Originally posted by Sham157 Sham157 wrote:

of course Planning ignores and then disappears when this little tit bit of info is shared 

Of course I know when the penalty was introduced, but thanks for telling me what I already know, meaning there's nothing to add. What Hans needs to be reminded of again is, that you can't handle the ball in this sport since the 1860's, but he insists otherwise.

So when a Valencia player handled the ball in the box on first night of the European Cup group phase, he initially got away with it, as the "majority" of players do. The man from VAR though, he say no. Bang. Penalty awarded. 

One night. One game. One handball incident. One penalty awarded. Justice done on the spot. 
VAR: Cutting the crap out of football.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 2019 at 6:40pm
You do now, at any rate. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roberto Baggio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 2019 at 7:03pm
Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by Roberto Baggio Roberto Baggio wrote:

Did you know that in a Roy of the Rovers sketch from the 1970s, a VAR type decision was made on the big screen in the stadium.
 
Interesting.
 
Anyway, back to Moleman v Planning.
 
 
Really? Any links?

No can’t find it on google
They were talking about it on Talksport last week with a fella who used to make the comic strips 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hans Moleman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Sep 2019 at 4:56am
BANG!!! PENALTY AWARDED LOL LOL
"I called him an embarrassment to FIFA and to himself," .... He said 'No-one speaks to me like that'.... and I said, "well I do' and that was that."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TonyNotJack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 2019 at 2:03pm
Should they have kept the rule even while using VAR that when it's incredibly close you favour the attacking team? That Spurs goal was the perfect example.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 2019 at 2:04pm
It’s a farce, it really is!LOL Game on in the background here with no sound and nobody knows what is happening!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roberto Baggio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 2019 at 2:19pm
it was a farce that offside call, but nice to see Spurs fans not chanting VAR today LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote planning Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 2019 at 5:03pm
Originally posted by TonyNotJack TonyNotJack wrote:

Should they have kept the rule even while using VAR that when it's incredibly close you favour the attacking team? That Spurs goal was the perfect example.

Offside is not incredibly close with VAR. It is a factual decision. The right decision was made again. Job done.

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VAR: Cutting the crap out of football.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SuperDave84 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 2019 at 5:27pm
You're being obtuse. As has been explained before, the frame rate and frame selection are huge issues with VAR.

The maximum relative velocity of two elite level players sprinting in opposite directions is about 20 metres per second (10 metres per second each).

The frame rate of the cameras currently used for VAR is the same as broadcast cameras and is 50 frames per second.

That means, in one frame, top level players can move 40cm in opposite directions.

In general, of course, it is a lot less than that (it is very rare to have a defender sprinting out and a forward sprinting through just as a pass is played, especially at top speed).

However, positions of half that (where a defender is stepping up as a forward is sprinting through) are not exactly infrequent.

And, where the position is as follows:

In the last frame before the ball is released, the receiving player is onside; and
In the first frame after the ball is released, the receiving player is offside; and
Where the ball is released at some stage between those two frames (that is, it is in contact with the passer's foot in the first frame but not in contact in the second frame (I'm assuming a foot pass, rather than, say, a header, not that it makes a difference)); then

VAR does *not* assist in making the factual decision of what position the receiving player was in at the point of release, for so long as the frame rate is 50 frames per second and where the pass occurs within the parameters above.

I appreciate that is very rare but you simply cannot claim that VAR is flawless, especially where the frame selection is a human element. The decision may be factual but VAR has technical and human limitations that mean there may be circumstances where it does not deliver an answer that is guaranteed to be the correct one. There is no doubt it is better at giving correct results than what went before but it is not flawless and it does no favours to advocates for VAR to claim that it is.

Simply put, on offside, VAR is better at making the correct decisions but VAR is not guaranteed to always make the correct decision.


Edited by SuperDave84 - 21 Sep 2019 at 5:29pm
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