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Roy Keane
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bhob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2018 at 5:09pm
Well if the ref gets injured isn't the fourth official there to replace them?
 
Hardly a sham or pointless
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2018 at 5:09pm
Originally posted by Hans Moleman Hans Moleman wrote:

The fourth official is the biggest sham in football. They are pointless. I agree, that would be the right scenario to have, but I don't think they will ever have a video ref down on the touchline basically. They would end up taking dogs abuse non stop if they are within touching distance of the managers. Hence why they have the VAR in a truck somewhere in Siberia or somewhere  LOL
Sure stick him in Siberia then! He does bugger all in the stands! It is the same thing, once the two can communicate.
you were probably told to leave an Irish centre one night but kept mouthing off and some big church going Gaa player f**ked you out the door hence your hatred for the Catholic Church and Gaa aswell!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2018 at 5:11pm
Originally posted by alihau41 alihau41 wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

But I think that would come under the remit of what I previously mentioned. A fourth official with a monitor spots a blatant red-card, the referee doesn't. A simple word in his ear solves everything. In this instance there wouldn't even be a stoppage of play, just a simple change in card colour and the matter is resolved.
 
no way would that work!! would cause far more issues such as video ref having a bet on a red card to happen etc.
What's stopping the main referee having a bet on same?
you were probably told to leave an Irish centre one night but kept mouthing off and some big church going Gaa player f**ked you out the door hence your hatred for the Catholic Church and Gaa aswell!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2018 at 5:12pm
Originally posted by bhob bhob wrote:

Well if the ref gets injured isn't the fourth official there to replace them?
 
Hardly a sham or pointless
So just have a spare official in attendance, put the fourth official in an ivory tower and the job is a good 'un.
you were probably told to leave an Irish centre one night but kept mouthing off and some big church going Gaa player f**ked you out the door hence your hatred for the Catholic Church and Gaa aswell!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote coyne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2018 at 5:17pm
The fourth official is pretty important for said reason

Its actually a very common thing in England for a 4th official or linesman to pull a muscle or fall ill or whatever and then they go searching in for the stands for an FA qualified ref to take his place, its happened this month in the Championship its that common
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bhob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2018 at 5:17pm
Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by bhob bhob wrote:

Well if the ref gets injured isn't the fourth official there to replace them?
 
Hardly a sham or pointless
So just have a spare official in attendance, put the fourth official in an ivory tower and the job is a good 'un.
 
Yeah true. I think there's more to it than that. They have to check substitutes coming on in case one of them forgets he's packin when entering the field of play 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hans Moleman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2018 at 5:18pm
Originally posted by bhob bhob wrote:

Well if the ref gets injured isn't the fourth official there to replace them?
 
Hardly a sham or pointless

True, very rarely happens though. That was originally why they were there wasn't it, without all the other bits added to their remit. Now their main role seems to be to smile at high profile managers as they take abuse after abuse on the touchline from managers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote alihau41 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2018 at 5:22pm
Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by alihau41 alihau41 wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

But I think that would come under the remit of what I previously mentioned. A fourth official with a monitor spots a blatant red-card, the referee doesn't. A simple word in his ear solves everything. In this instance there wouldn't even be a stoppage of play, just a simple change in card colour and the matter is resolved.
 
no way would that work!! would cause far more issues such as video ref having a bet on a red card to happen etc.
What's stopping the main referee having a bet on same?
 
same reason a player not two footing and getting a red...your argument is weak. the fact that players and referees have to make split second decisions. a video ref watching replays on a monitor has much more time on his hands to overhaul the original decision
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2018 at 5:27pm
Originally posted by alihau41 alihau41 wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by alihau41 alihau41 wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

But I think that would come under the remit of what I previously mentioned. A fourth official with a monitor spots a blatant red-card, the referee doesn't. A simple word in his ear solves everything. In this instance there wouldn't even be a stoppage of play, just a simple change in card colour and the matter is resolved.
 
no way would that work!! would cause far more issues such as video ref having a bet on a red card to happen etc.
What's stopping the main referee having a bet on same?
 
same reason a player not two footing and getting a red...your argument is weak. the fact that players and referees have to make split second decisions. a video ref watching replays on a monitor has much more time on his hands to overhaul the original decision
And his decision will be scrutinised far more. If we are basing the whole thing on the argument that you might get the odd dodgy official then there really isn't much debate.

Regarding the fourth official,  I merely suggested him as he has a monitor and, when the ball is in play at least, is merely watching the game. It doesn't matter if it is a fourth official or he is called the ultimate umpire, all you need is a way for him to communicate to the referee and rectify blatant errors. At the moment VAR is being terribly managed  and affecting the spectacle.
you were probably told to leave an Irish centre one night but kept mouthing off and some big church going Gaa player f**ked you out the door hence your hatred for the Catholic Church and Gaa aswell!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FrankosHereNow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2018 at 8:51pm
Just flicked onto Rennes v PSG there at HT in the Liverpool game. VAR decision was very quick and correct. Goal disallowed for Rennes. Ref had a look on an tablet at the side of the pitch.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Huntacha Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2018 at 9:45pm
It was used tonight in the Coppa Italia match between Juve and Atalanta to give a peno for handball. Buffon saved it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hans Moleman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2018 at 11:44pm
Originally posted by The Huntacha The Huntacha wrote:

It was used tonight in the Coppa Italia match between Juve and Atalanta to give a peno for handball. Buffon saved it.

Just seen it. There's no way you can give a penalty for that. I think there are huge issues around handball decisions in football. I actually think its the worst area in terms of refereeing decisions in football. They definitely just make it up as they go along.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote planning Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 2018 at 8:17am
Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

But the problem with so many of these decisions  is interpretation. For example, I don't think that the penalty decision was correct in the Liverpool game and it seems opinions are divided, even just on here.


Interpretation doesn't come into it. The letter of the law does. When there's a handball, there's a decision to make and it gets made. Shirt pulling in the box is now a foul, and diving is clamped down on, not seen as "part of the game" anymore.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote alihau41 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 2018 at 10:02am
Originally posted by planning planning wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

But the problem with so many of these decisions  is interpretation. For example, I don't think that the penalty decision was correct in the Liverpool game and it seems opinions are divided, even just on here.


Interpretation doesn't come into it. The letter of the law does. When there's a handball, there's a decision to make and it gets made. Shirt pulling in the box is now a foul, and diving is clamped down on, not seen as "part of the game" anymore.
 
 
seriously?? you've had some clanger comments, this one being another. letter of the law is stated yes, but each persons interpretation of the laws is different and that's what refereeing decisions comes down to.
for instance, west brom peno vs arsenal in the last couple of mins around new years. given as handball against calum chambers, which 99/100 just isn't given.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote planning Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 2018 at 10:36am
And that was with no VAR. The law doesn't do interpretation. It says handball is handball and must be punished.

The referee, any referee, is there to apply the laws of the game as they stand. He considered the handball as described above as deliberate, and took the relevant action.

Even if you think it's not deliberate, you give the ref a decision to make if you handle the ball. And it would be very difficult for a VAR in that case to overrule him, as it's not a "clear and obvious" error. We've seen penalties for it before and we'll see them again.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary McKay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 2018 at 10:50am
Originally posted by planning planning wrote:

And that was with no VAR. The law doesn't do interpretation. It says handball is handball and must be punished.

The referee, any referee, is there to apply the laws of the game as they stand. He considered the handball as described above as deliberate, and took the relevant action. .
You are contradicting yourself.
 
The Law (12) does NOT say that handball is handball, it must be DELIBERATE to warrant action being taken by the referee.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary McKay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 2018 at 10:51am

Handling the ball

Handling the ball involves a deliberate act of a player making contact with the

ball with the hand or arm.

The following must be considered:

the movement of the hand towards the ball (not the ball towards the hand)

the distance between the opponent and the ball (unexpected ball)

the position of the hand does not necessarily mean that there is an offence

touching the ball with an object held in the hand (clothing, shinguard, etc.)

is an offence

hitting the ball with a thrown object (boot, shinguard, etc.) is an offence

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fruice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 2018 at 11:25am
My understanding is that the Var official is always in contact with the ref in relation to the issues under the VAR officials remit.
However if there is an event which they are unsure of they both look at it again and try to reach the correct decision.
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