You Boys in Green Homepage YBIG Shop
Forum Home Forum Home : International : Republic Of Ireland
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Underage squads: Best Prospects
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login


Underage squads: Best Prospects

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 279280281282283 287>
Author
Message
Bandwagon View Drop Down
Liam Brady
Liam Brady
Avatar

Joined: 07 Feb 2021
Location: Dublin
Status: Offline
Points: 1875
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bandwagon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jul 2022 at 10:14pm
Originally posted by Hotlips_Hoolahan Hotlips_Hoolahan wrote:

Yeah, the Albanians are notoriously proactive about sourcing eligible players. 

It's funny, there was a massive influx of Polish into the country when I was in secondary school, which would've been 16 years ago now, but you rarely hear of any young Irish footballers of Polish ancestry, so we haven't had to worry about them yet.

A decent amount of Brazilians in the Midlands as well, perhaps even longer than the Poles, but so far there haven't been any Fergalinho's coming through.


Its only been 17 years since the likes of Poland, Lithuania and Latvia joined the EU and thus began the influx of said nationals to other EU member states like Ireland. Given the vast majority would of them moving here would have been 18-30 year olds, it'd probably be another 10 years until most of them started to settle down and have kids here. So most of their kids would still be very young.

Theres a few beginning to emerge in the u15s/16s level now, I'd expect that to grow exponentially over the next 5-10 years.

Its similar to those of Nigerian heritage and the Nigerian population in Ireland, they began to move here in the early to mid 90s. The likes of Idah, Obafemi, Bazunu, Omobamidele etc.. were then all born at the turn of the century and it took them 15-20 years to emerge through the underage setups.


Edited by Bandwagon - 31 Jul 2022 at 10:15pm
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
Hotlips_Hoolahan View Drop Down
Jack Charlton
Jack Charlton


Joined: 04 Aug 2020
Status: Offline
Points: 5734
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hotlips_Hoolahan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jul 2022 at 11:06pm
Originally posted by Bandwagon Bandwagon wrote:

Originally posted by Hotlips_Hoolahan Hotlips_Hoolahan wrote:

Yeah, the Albanians are notoriously proactive about sourcing eligible players. 

It's funny, there was a massive influx of Polish into the country when I was in secondary school, which would've been 16 years ago now, but you rarely hear of any young Irish footballers of Polish ancestry, so we haven't had to worry about them yet.

A decent amount of Brazilians in the Midlands as well, perhaps even longer than the Poles, but so far there haven't been any Fergalinho's coming through.


Its only been 17 years since the likes of Poland, Lithuania and Latvia joined the EU and thus began the influx of said nationals to other EU member states like Ireland. Given the vast majority would of them moving here would have been 18-30 year olds, it'd probably be another 10 years until most of them started to settle down and have kids here. So most of their kids would still be very young.

Theres a few beginning to emerge in the u15s/16s level now, I'd expect that to grow exponentially over the next 5-10 years.

Its similar to those of Nigerian heritage and the Nigerian population in Ireland, they began to move here in the early to mid 90s. The likes of Idah, Obafemi, Bazunu, Omobamidele etc.. were then all born at the turn of the century and it took them 15-20 years to emerge through the underage setups.

It's funny. My older brother was watching the 2002 WC the summer he was doing the Junior Cert and the sub, an aul fuddy-duddy, passed comment on the French national team's lack of white players.

It's feasible we'll soon have a starting eleven of predominantly black players. I often wonder what that lad would think now, if he's still alive.

LOL


Edited by Hotlips_Hoolahan - 31 Jul 2022 at 11:07pm
Back to Top
giveittochristie View Drop Down
Kevin Kilbane
Kevin Kilbane


Joined: 21 Oct 2015
Status: Offline
Points: 200
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote giveittochristie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 2022 at 1:37am
it’s notable also how few of the womens underage teams have anyone of Eastern European/African descent. 
Back to Top
Technical_method View Drop Down
Kevin Kilbane
Kevin Kilbane


Joined: 16 Jul 2022
Location: London
Status: Offline
Points: 231
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technical_method Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 2022 at 11:41am
Originally posted by giveittochristie giveittochristie wrote:

it’s notable also how few of the womens underage teams have anyone of Eastern European/African descent. 

I think we need to stop counting ethnic groups in society, the England women's team have just been crowned champions of Europe and the conversation of them being "too white" throughout the tournament has been a disgrace and diminishes what is an incredible achievement it has been for the hard work of each of the players have put in,  and to an audience of many millions.

There's no racism here, there are many underprivileged woman of all ethnicities that deserve a chance.

Back to Top
Borussia View Drop Down
Jack Charlton
Jack Charlton
Avatar

Joined: 14 Oct 2010
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 8334
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Borussia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 2022 at 11:50am
Originally posted by Technical_method Technical_method wrote:

Originally posted by giveittochristie giveittochristie wrote:

it’s notable also how few of the womens underage teams have anyone of Eastern European/African descent. 

I think we need to stop counting ethnic groups in society, the England women's team have just been crowned champions of Europe and the conversation of them being "too white" throughout the tournament has been a disgrace and diminishes what is an incredible achievement it has been for the hard work of each of the players have put in,  and to an audience of many millions.

There's no racism here, there are many underprivileged woman of all ethnicities that deserve a chance.

It's a valid conversation to be having. You can admire the achievement of that team and still question why they aren't representative of the population they come from. 
Back to Top
Hotlips_Hoolahan View Drop Down
Jack Charlton
Jack Charlton


Joined: 04 Aug 2020
Status: Offline
Points: 5734
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hotlips_Hoolahan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 2022 at 11:55am
Originally posted by Borussia Borussia wrote:

Originally posted by Technical_method Technical_method wrote:

Originally posted by giveittochristie giveittochristie wrote:

it’s notable also how few of the womens underage teams have anyone of Eastern European/African descent. 

I think we need to stop counting ethnic groups in society, the England women's team have just been crowned champions of Europe and the conversation of them being "too white" throughout the tournament has been a disgrace and diminishes what is an incredible achievement it has been for the hard work of each of the players have put in,  and to an audience of many millions.

There's no racism here, there are many underprivileged woman of all ethnicities that deserve a chance.

It's a valid conversation to be having. You can admire the achievement of that team and still question why they aren't representative of the population they come from. 

Do you think they should select the best players available to them? 
Back to Top
gufct View Drop Down
Jack Charlton
Jack Charlton
Avatar
Trapattoni could manage me any day!

Joined: 15 Feb 2009
Location: Ireland
Status: Offline
Points: 6391
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gufct Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 2022 at 12:03pm
the Fai are miles behind gaa and rugby in the schools.
One City,One County,One Club GUFC will be back.
Back to Top
The O'Shea View Drop Down
Jack Charlton
Jack Charlton
Avatar
I know everything and I’m NEVER wrong

Joined: 16 Aug 2013
Location: Ireland
Status: Offline
Points: 7733
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The O'Shea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 2022 at 12:54pm
People who think that pointing out that there is a lack of ethnic minority players in womens football is a suggestion only of white people being racist are typical reactionaries. The actual point is that more needs to be done to open up the opportunities for these women to play sport, as currently many of them are facing economic/social/cultural barriers to doing so.

Responding to the issue with "we need to ignore ethnicity altogether"/"are you auggesting they shouldn't pick their best players" etc is a complete failure to grasp the point.
We're decent enough..
Back to Top
Borussia View Drop Down
Jack Charlton
Jack Charlton
Avatar

Joined: 14 Oct 2010
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 8334
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Borussia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 2022 at 12:57pm
Originally posted by Hotlips_Hoolahan Hotlips_Hoolahan wrote:

Originally posted by Borussia Borussia wrote:

Originally posted by Technical_method Technical_method wrote:

Originally posted by giveittochristie giveittochristie wrote:

it’s notable also how few of the womens underage teams have anyone of Eastern European/African descent. 

I think we need to stop counting ethnic groups in society, the England women's team have just been crowned champions of Europe and the conversation of them being "too white" throughout the tournament has been a disgrace and diminishes what is an incredible achievement it has been for the hard work of each of the players have put in,  and to an audience of many millions.

There's no racism here, there are many underprivileged woman of all ethnicities that deserve a chance.

It's a valid conversation to be having. You can admire the achievement of that team and still question why they aren't representative of the population they come from. 

Do you think they should select the best players available to them? 
Yes

Back to Top
Hotlips_Hoolahan View Drop Down
Jack Charlton
Jack Charlton


Joined: 04 Aug 2020
Status: Offline
Points: 5734
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hotlips_Hoolahan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 2022 at 1:01pm
Originally posted by Borussia Borussia wrote:

Originally posted by Hotlips_Hoolahan Hotlips_Hoolahan wrote:

Originally posted by Borussia Borussia wrote:

Originally posted by Technical_method Technical_method wrote:

Originally posted by giveittochristie giveittochristie wrote:

it’s notable also how few of the womens underage teams have anyone of Eastern European/African descent. 

I think we need to stop counting ethnic groups in society, the England women's team have just been crowned champions of Europe and the conversation of them being "too white" throughout the tournament has been a disgrace and diminishes what is an incredible achievement it has been for the hard work of each of the players have put in,  and to an audience of many millions.

There's no racism here, there are many underprivileged woman of all ethnicities that deserve a chance.

It's a valid conversation to be having. You can admire the achievement of that team and still question why they aren't representative of the population they come from. 

Do you think they should select the best players available to them? 
Yes


That's what they did, and they won the European Championships.

Of course some people will copy and paste some generic editorial they read on The Guardian, put it in their own insipid words, and claim they know anything about female participation in team sports across ethnic lines in a completely different country when they don't even know what's going on inside their own heads.


Edited by Hotlips_Hoolahan - 01 Aug 2022 at 1:11pm
Back to Top
Technical_method View Drop Down
Kevin Kilbane
Kevin Kilbane


Joined: 16 Jul 2022
Location: London
Status: Offline
Points: 231
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technical_method Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 2022 at 1:02pm
Originally posted by Borussia Borussia wrote:

Originally posted by Technical_method Technical_method wrote:

Originally posted by giveittochristie giveittochristie wrote:

it’s notable also how few of the womens underage teams have anyone of Eastern European/African descent. 

I think we need to stop counting ethnic groups in society, the England women's team have just been crowned champions of Europe and the conversation of them being "too white" throughout the tournament has been a disgrace and diminishes what is an incredible achievement it has been for the hard work of each of the players have put in,  and to an audience of many millions.

There's no racism here, there are many underprivileged woman of all ethnicities that deserve a chance.

It's a valid conversation to be having. You can admire the achievement of that team and still question why they aren't representative of the population they come from. 

On absolute merit... Ireland may very well have a first 11 team very soon that includes bazunu, omobamidele, ebosele, obafemi, ogbene and Robinson.

That would see the ireland first team 54% black on a pure merit basis. 

Explain how that is "representative of the population"?. What conversation  would you suggest we have? 

Equality of opportunity for all regardless of ethnicty and a merit based system is the only way forward. 

I'm very open to having my mind changed if someone has a better approach.


Back to Top
The O'Shea View Drop Down
Jack Charlton
Jack Charlton
Avatar
I know everything and I’m NEVER wrong

Joined: 16 Aug 2013
Location: Ireland
Status: Offline
Points: 7733
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The O'Shea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 2022 at 1:30pm
Originally posted by Technical_method Technical_method wrote:

Originally posted by Borussia Borussia wrote:

Originally posted by Technical_method Technical_method wrote:

Originally posted by giveittochristie giveittochristie wrote:

it’s notable also how few of the womens underage teams have anyone of Eastern European/African descent. 

I think we need to stop counting ethnic groups in society, the England women's team have just been crowned champions of Europe and the conversation of them being "too white" throughout the tournament has been a disgrace and diminishes what is an incredible achievement it has been for the hard work of each of the players have put in,  and to an audience of many millions.

There's no racism here, there are many underprivileged woman of all ethnicities that deserve a chance.

It's a valid conversation to be having. You can admire the achievement of that team and still question why they aren't representative of the population they come from. 

On absolute merit... Ireland may very well have a first 11 team very soon that includes bazunu, omobamidele, ebosele, obafemi, ogbene and Robinson.

That would see the ireland first team 54% black on a pure merit basis. 

Explain how that is "representative of the population"?. What conversation  would you suggest we have? 

Equality of opportunity for all regardless of ethnicty and a merit based system is the only way forward. 

I'm very open to having my mind changed if someone has a better approach.



That's the point, currently women from minority backgrounds don't have "equality of opportunity" (which is wishy washy to begin with in comparison to equality of condition - which is the actual gold standard).

The fact that the Ireland mens team, on the other hand, may soon be more than 50% black/mixed race despite black/mixed race people not making up 50% of the population is actually an indicator that the mens game has something like an equality of opportunity at the least. You have somehow, rather spectacularly, managed to misinterpret that as an argument against a proactive approach of engagement towards minority groups though...
We're decent enough..
Back to Top
Borussia View Drop Down
Jack Charlton
Jack Charlton
Avatar

Joined: 14 Oct 2010
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 8334
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Borussia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 2022 at 2:18pm
Originally posted by Hotlips_Hoolahan Hotlips_Hoolahan wrote:

Originally posted by Borussia Borussia wrote:

Originally posted by Hotlips_Hoolahan Hotlips_Hoolahan wrote:

Originally posted by Borussia Borussia wrote:

Originally posted by Technical_method Technical_method wrote:

Originally posted by giveittochristie giveittochristie wrote:

it’s notable also how few of the womens underage teams have anyone of Eastern European/African descent. 

I think we need to stop counting ethnic groups in society, the England women's team have just been crowned champions of Europe and the conversation of them being "too white" throughout the tournament has been a disgrace and diminishes what is an incredible achievement it has been for the hard work of each of the players have put in,  and to an audience of many millions.

There's no racism here, there are many underprivileged woman of all ethnicities that deserve a chance.

It's a valid conversation to be having. You can admire the achievement of that team and still question why they aren't representative of the population they come from. 

Do you think they should select the best players available to them? 
Yes


That's what they did, and they won the European Championships.

Of course some people will copy and paste some generic editorial they read on The Guardian, put it in their own insipid words, and claim they know anything about female participation in team sports across ethnic lines in a completely different country when they don't even know what's going on inside their own heads.
I live in the UK and can tell you that the ethnic make up of this current England team does not represent the demographics within England. 
The question here isn't picking your best squad - The question is why the best squad currently doesn't contain many of ethnic backgrounds. 
Back to Top
Technical_method View Drop Down
Kevin Kilbane
Kevin Kilbane


Joined: 16 Jul 2022
Location: London
Status: Offline
Points: 231
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technical_method Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 2022 at 2:19pm
[/QUOTE]
That's the point, currently women from minority backgrounds don't have "equality of opportunity" (which is wishy washy to begin with in comparison to equality of condition - which is the actual gold standard).

The fact that the Ireland mens team, on the other hand, may soon be more than 50% black/mixed race despite black/mixed race people not making up 50% of the population is actually an indicator that the mens game has something like an equality of opportunity at the least. You have somehow, rather spectacularly, managed to misinterpret that as an argument against a proactive approach of engagement towards minority groups though...
[/QUOTE]

I'd have to disagree with you there oshea, using the England women's team as an example, only a few years ago they had more players in the first team from a minority background. Are you suggesting that some opportunities were taken away from these players this year? Please explain how that happened?

On your second point, 50% of the men's team being black is equal opportunity despite being <2% of the population? I'm not sure I follow that logic... how can you suggest its not merit? 

Your point of proactively targeting engagement towards minority groups is spot on. We shouldn't be targeting skin colour or ethnicity at all. We should targeting people from underprivileged backgrounds, yes, even if they're white indigenous people. 

How you can say some underprivileged people should be prioritised over other underprivileged people is a astonishing admission.
Back to Top
Borussia View Drop Down
Jack Charlton
Jack Charlton
Avatar

Joined: 14 Oct 2010
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 8334
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Borussia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 2022 at 2:19pm
Originally posted by Technical_method Technical_method wrote:

Originally posted by Borussia Borussia wrote:

Originally posted by Technical_method Technical_method wrote:

Originally posted by giveittochristie giveittochristie wrote:

it’s notable also how few of the womens underage teams have anyone of Eastern European/African descent. 

I think we need to stop counting ethnic groups in society, the England women's team have just been crowned champions of Europe and the conversation of them being "too white" throughout the tournament has been a disgrace and diminishes what is an incredible achievement it has been for the hard work of each of the players have put in,  and to an audience of many millions.

There's no racism here, there are many underprivileged woman of all ethnicities that deserve a chance.

It's a valid conversation to be having. You can admire the achievement of that team and still question why they aren't representative of the population they come from. 

On absolute merit... Ireland may very well have a first 11 team very soon that includes bazunu, omobamidele, ebosele, obafemi, ogbene and Robinson.

That would see the ireland first team 54% black on a pure merit basis. 

Explain how that is "representative of the population"?. What conversation  would you suggest we have? 

Equality of opportunity for all regardless of ethnicty and a merit based system is the only way forward. 

I'm very open to having my mind changed if someone has a better approach.


Exactly - And that isn't what is there right now. 
Back to Top
nvidic View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: 03 Aug 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 18424
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nvidic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 2022 at 2:27pm
Gone way off topic lads. 
Back to Top
Luis Amor Rodriguez View Drop Down
Liam Brady
Liam Brady
Avatar

Joined: 19 Sep 2016
Location: Harchester
Status: Offline
Points: 1370
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Luis Amor Rodriguez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 2022 at 2:29pm
The statistical reality is that the England women's football team has the precise number of players from BAME backgrounds that you would expect, given numbers in the population.

3 of the 23 player squad are "non-white". (i.e.: 13.04%).

About 13% of the UK population are from ethnic minority backgrounds. 

Therefore, BAME players are represented in precisely the numbers one would expect from a purely demographic or proportional perspective. 

By that same token, BAME players in mens' football are massively over-represented (in England and Ireland and many countries besides) from a purely demographic or proportional perspective. 

The figures would not suggest a lack of equality of opportunity against BAME players.  In men's football, non BAME players are proportionately over-represented, if anything; and in women's football in England at least, the figures appear precisely as one would expect from a statistical perspective. 

In context of the actual figures, it raises the question as to why the prevailing narrative is one of "discrimination", "lack of equality of opportunity" and "lack of diversity".

Source: This are the figures relied upon by BBC Sport in this recent article on women's football.  See: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/62009679 ;





Edited by Luis Amor Rodriguez - 01 Aug 2022 at 11:30pm
Back to Top
Technical_method View Drop Down
Kevin Kilbane
Kevin Kilbane


Joined: 16 Jul 2022
Location: London
Status: Offline
Points: 231
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technical_method Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 2022 at 2:32pm
Originally posted by nvidic nvidic wrote:

Gone way off topic lads. 

Yeah, I agree and I'll leave it there. Apologies, I'll try to stay on topic going forward.

Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 279280281282283 287>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.00
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.