Underage squads: Best Prospects |
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Fozz
Liam Brady Joined: 08 Oct 2019 Location: Dublin Status: Offline Points: 2248 |
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Hmmm...compelling points, Canadian.
I'd be very much for bringing in one or two uncapped youths into a squad and getting integration started young, as you say. Connell was already in a squad (pulled out through injury) so it's not unprecedented for us. Not much sign of it yet as far as bringing in players who haven't played senior football, bar Troy who we all know about. Knight, Molumby, Idah etc. were all seniors players when brought in, albeit very young, inexperienced ones. It's my worry about Kenny that he may be more conservative in these matters than his words have hinted at. In his defense look at his thread for all the talk about pressure on him so has he really the time to be taking that youth approach?
Edited by Fozz - 20 Jan 2021 at 10:14am |
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Fozz
Liam Brady Joined: 08 Oct 2019 Location: Dublin Status: Offline Points: 2248 |
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He played for our U17's in March '19 when he was 16, so a year below the limit at least. Then for the 21's campaign all through that year and next, he was just 16 and 17 and we had a plethora of lads ahead of him for good reasons. And you can read that thread and I doubt anyone even knew his name then. It's only now he has popped up as having graduated from the WH youth system to the first team and he's a big blip on the radar so let's see what '21 brings when youth football returns later in the year (21's may even have games in March but who knows...). EDIT: Sorry but to add to this, seems he played PL2 ONCE in 19/20 and one FA youth match and the a few U18 appearances. So his emergence now as a 1st team sub is somewhat surprising. I'd read nothing into his lack of Ireland underage matches in 2019, and 2020 was a wash. Edited by Fozz - 20 Jan 2021 at 10:29am |
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kevin100
Ray Houghton Joined: 01 Jul 2020 Location: Mallow Status: Offline Points: 3377 |
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Wales are the template yes. Joe Morell is in the team no bother and he playing for Lincoln let’s say. They don’t “wait for them” to prove at a level far higher then international for them to come in. Problem we show no foresight. If Richard Keogh got that bad injury (god help him and delighted he got his compensation as he was treated wrong) would John Egan have even played ahead of him in the last qualifiers? It shouldn’t have taken an injury for Egan to get in on form. The best like for like example regarding Wales would be Joe Rodon. He has been playing for Wales now for 12-18 months despite only really breaking into the Swansea team 2-3 years ago. They didn’t wait for him to “prove himself at a higher level or to get a big move” to bring him in and bomb the likes of an Ashley Williams out the reckoning. Williams has been a great Welsh servant but he’s pushing on new blood on the scene thanks and good luck. Nathan Collins at Stoke is a similar profile to Rodon and I’d argue even possibly a slightly higher ceiling he’s a ferocious talent. Dara O’Shea at West Brom now too will one of them play ahead of Duffy anytime soon who’s badly out of form?
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IrishCanadian
Kevin Kilbane Joined: 29 Jun 2019 Status: Offline Points: 219 |
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He played for the u17s when that was his age group. He wasn’t a year below the limit. It was his age group. It was the 2002 group and he’s born on 2002. Being born later in the year doesn’t put him down age groups. At that time u17s was the lowest age he was eligible for while you’re making it sound like he was pushed up an age group. There are levels between u17s and u21s. We had u19s qualifiers in that time too. His name was making waves when he first declined Manchester United’s deal. He was highly rated in Manchester and had top clubs on the continent chasing him. He only joined West Ham in November and by March had 10 goals in 8 appearances. So it’s really not all that surprising he’s continuing to progress. And there was some talk of the lack of matches previously as I’ve had the conversation with someone well connected to Manchester United’s academy and happens to be Irish too. He even said this back at the time of Mipo’s u17 call up that the Irish set up don’t rate him as highly as the united set up. Similarly said for Deji Sotona, that Ireland don’t rate him. Whether that’s the reason we’ll never really know. There could be loads of reasons from him not being selected to him asking not to be selected.
Edited by IrishCanadian - 20 Jan 2021 at 11:53am |
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ChesterCopperpot
Liam Brady Joined: 28 Feb 2019 Status: Offline Points: 1168 |
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There's a couple of games in the next qualifying group that young players can be tested. Qatar twice and to a lesser extend the two competitive games against Luxembourg
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t_rAndy
Robbie Keane Joined: 06 Feb 2008 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 26233 |
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He would have grown up in Ireland, playing Schoolboy football with Crumlin and Joey's before getting the chance to move his family to England so he could play football (which is wrong in my opinion that they are basically buying 12 year olds). You would hope by the time he moved over, he always dreamed of playing in the EPL and for IRELAND like most 12 year olds born and raised here would. Edited by t_rAndy - 20 Jan 2021 at 12:07pm |
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t_rAndy
Robbie Keane Joined: 06 Feb 2008 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 26233 |
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Considering he is nearly 16, has led the Irish underage teams for a long time as well as Rovers, to jump to Albania now (who wouldn't have a better chance of qualifying for tournaments than us) would hopefully be not on his mind. Although I am sure his Albanian family there will be trying to influence!
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musicinmouth
500 Club la la la Joined: 14 Aug 2008 Location: Cork Status: Offline Points: 564 |
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I love watching Kevin Zefi videos on YouTube. He seems to love waiting until there are 3 players around him and then he applies some magic to get away from them... such an exciting talent. Kenny always talked about fast tracking the most talented players up through the ages, so it will be interesting to see when he gets included... turning 16 next month.
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Fozz
Liam Brady Joined: 08 Oct 2019 Location: Dublin Status: Offline Points: 2248 |
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I'm not suggesting that, to be fair, but can see how it was interpreted. I've no input as to why he wasn't considered for the 19s then but I'm reading it as he simply wasn't deemed good enough. He was still 16 or just turning 17 then. You'd want to be a serious talent to play for the 19's as a 16-year old (I believe Joe Hodge did so which says a lot about him and is also encouraging that we will indeed fast-track such prospects through the age-groups). I would have Odubeko in the 21's in March for sure and I hope we do have some matches then and he plays. |
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Hotlips_Hoolahan
Jack Charlton Joined: 04 Aug 2020 Status: Offline Points: 6615 |
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I keep seeing the Welsh national team being held up as an example of the way we should be doing things. Yet for all that, Ethan Ampadu plays for the worst team in the Premier League, David Brooks plays for Bournemouth and Daniel James wouldn't get within an arse's roar of the English setup. Ampadu's father playing for us underage is constantly brought up as if that somehow points to someone who would've been amenable to playing for us, completely discounting the fact he was born in Britain and has a Welsh mother - maybe Wales simply had more of a pull? Northern Ireland's situation, like Wales, is not compatible with ours. They don't have the options we do, which necessitates starting Daniel Ballard long before he is ready, and he has been largely atrocious. I agree we are slow to integrate players and continue flogging them well past their expiration date but the solution is not to give a senior cap to someone who's 12th choice CM at Celtic just because he made half-a-dozen appearances for an abysmal Bolton team in the Championship who've since freefalled to League 2. Declan Rice was handed senior Intl caps before promptly turning tail as soon as he was to be capped competitively. Virtually as soon as Jack Grealish started getting games in the PL he first declined a senior Ireland call-up for the USA friendly in December 2014. So the theory that if we call up players for the senior team they will be ours forever more simply doesn't stand up to scrutiny. Rice was capped and still left. Grealish at least had the decorum to decline senior caps knowing that England was his long-term aim. If some people had their way Connor Ronan and Daniel Crowley would've been guaranteed competitive football for us at the age of 16 or 17 to tie them down and stop them from hopping from one national team to the other. Where are they now? One is in the Swiss second division and the other is playing in League One. And what if we do integrate Odubeko, Sotona, Okoflex, Connell, Hodge, Smallbone, Coventry and Ferry right now? Do people realise there is a finite amount of space for players in senior squads? Kenny has an ideal number of 23. Are we supposed to leave out lads like Jayson Molumby, Adam Idah, Jason Knight and Troy Parrott, who are all getting regular first team football at a high level, in favour of English-born or dual-eligible players playing in youth teams on the off-chance lads like Smallbone or Ferry turn out to be world-beaters? IrishCanadian has a nice hypothetical, but it's simply not practicable when you place it under any kind of scrutiny. Then there's the risk that the intense UK focus will result in neglect elsewhere. "As a consequence of an intense UK focus, players like Seamus Coleman,
Alan Browne and Sean Maguire who were based in Ireland were omitted
from the U21 starting team in favour of English-born prospects. In the
case of Coleman, he did not even make the squad. None of the English-born players who started ahead of them went on to make a senior appearance." http://www.balls.ie/football/irish-players-tug-of-war-406280 |
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Left foot
Ray Houghton Joined: 16 Aug 2019 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 0 |
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I guess it would be good to know where the younger dual nationality players allegiances are. I would go as far as saying players like Grealish had little ambition to play for us and always leaned towards England. Effectively using the irish youth system as a stepping stone. One of the neville brothers sons plays for the underage setup but if he is deemed anywhere near good enough I would think he'd jump ship straight away. If a player doesn't want to commit to ireland long term they should not take advantage of the setup. I wouldn add that this applies to Northern Ireland players using their setup with no thought to play for them long term. So I would say we benefit and fall victim to this at the same time. Personally I dont think its fair on truly committed players who's careers could benefit greatly playing for the irish underage setup, even if they don't go on to become senior players it could benefit their careers at club level.
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Territorial
Jack Charlton Joined: 25 Nov 2014 Status: Offline Points: 5817 |
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Er, Galbraith was born and brought up in NI, with there never being any question of his playing for the only other team for whom he qualifies. And while he has numerous under-age caps for us, his only senior cap was in a friendly against Luxembourg, which doesn't tie him. Oh and btw, we're Northern Ireland, not "the North", with a simple "NI" being easier to type. HTH.
Edited by Territorial - 20 Jan 2021 at 2:06pm |
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Territorial
Jack Charlton Joined: 25 Nov 2014 Status: Offline Points: 5817 |
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Regardless of the merits of those particular players (and I think you are unfair to Ampadu and Brooks), there is another aspect to Wales' recruitment which is much more important. Under (former) Technical Director Osian Roberts, the FAW set up a very progressive youth development system, which prepared youngsters for professional football generally, and Wales specifically, from a very early age. As part of this, they actively encouraged "Anglo's" who might be conflicted to go along to England training camps etc, to take a look. They did that safe in the knowledge that many would contrast the treatment they got from the two FA's i.e. only one of a number with England vs individual attention from Wales. While for those who were attracted to England, well at least Wales knew early.
This principle also applies to players brought up outside NI, eg Bailey Peacock-Farrell: Leeds goalkeeper Bailey Peacock-Farrell has pledged his future to Northern Ireland after being sounded out to switch allegiance to England. He
said: "I've had several chats with the England goalkeeping coaches -
one rang me the other week in fact, but I'm loyal to Northern Ireland." "Northern Ireland got in really early and made me feel wanted," he added. "At that time when I met Michael [O'Neill] I was a nobody, I was just a young keeper. "But for him to take that time out of his day to come and chat to me, and tell me about Northern Ireland, the pathway and what we're planning on doing as a country, for me that was special. "I don't think you'd get that from any other international manager. That togetherness is one of the main things that Michael brings - those family-orientated values. "It's a great honour to have the opportunity to be involved with the team." https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/45427205 As for Ballard, he had a bit of a nightmare against Norway (subbed at H-T), but he only started because we were seriously short of players (eg no Jonny Evans, Shane Ferguson at LB ). So it was no surprise that he was "schooled" by Haaland, who's been doing that to the best the Bundesliga has to offer, never mind a 19 y.o. Blackpool loanee! Apart from that, Ballard has been pretty good, whilst obviously loving playing for us: No need for pre-match video's either! |
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DeclanDaly
Ray Houghton Joined: 17 Oct 2013 Location: Boston, USA Status: Offline Points: 3254 |
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Imagine spending 10 years on football forums posting the exact same nonsense at every opportunity.
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You asked if I'd be anyone from history, fact or fiction, dead or alive:
I said "I'd be Tony Cascarino, circa 1995" |
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Hotlips_Hoolahan
Jack Charlton Joined: 04 Aug 2020 Status: Offline Points: 6615 |
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I don't even read what he says TBH. If Daniel Invincible was active on the forum to refute everything he says word for word, he'd just skulk back to the rock he crawled out from under like he usually does after losing a debate [as was the case on foot.ie]. But as is, he has carte blanche to post his verbal diarrea. As is his right BTW. I just don't see why an avowed Northern Ireland fan has so much interest in posting on the forum of a national team he despises. Creepy and odd behaviour. It'd be like me going on to the Armenia international football team fan forum and posting about the Turkish national team all the time.
Edited by Hotlips_Hoolahan - 20 Jan 2021 at 3:18pm |
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exgrad
Kevin Kilbane Joined: 27 Mar 2019 Status: Offline Points: 274 |
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We should have a Club ROI here as well and maybe the second (third?) choice Burnley goalkeeper and a league 1 defender would come and play for us and say nice things about us.
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Hotlips_Hoolahan
Jack Charlton Joined: 04 Aug 2020 Status: Offline Points: 6615 |
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Jaze Kabia's already made his Livingston debut, coming off the bench early in the 2nd half against Celtic tonight.
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Nialler
Liam Brady Joined: 20 Aug 2019 Status: Offline Points: 1490 |
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Agree with all of this especially the part on Wales and how they handle things
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