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Robbie Keane
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2019 at 8:22am
Racism is rife in both countries. Irish people, and I include myself in this as I used to think that way, believe we cannot be as racist as Britain because they had an empire and are often racist to us. The fact we have a mindset that means we compare racism to that of other countries could almost be seen as racist itself! It’s partly why I have stopped regarding myself as nationalist, progressive or not.

I remember when asylum seekers first arrived in my town, their was a huge amount of hate towards them. I regularly heard people tell me they were getting everything for nothing. I was told the Poles were taking all our jobs. It may have been tonge in cheek to talk about Dubs and ‘foreignders’, but there is a kernel of truth in there. If we are to be comparing racism, and as I have already stated I don’t think it is healthy to do so, but if we must, we should have close to none in Ireland given our history. In Britain it is the last thrashings, hopefully, of an Empire built on supremacy. That shouldn’t excuse it, but it comes from institutionalised racism, particularly in schools. We don’t have that, yet we have Direct Provision Centres and high profile racist cranks like O’Doherty. We have a long history of racist political parties, not minor ones, but FG and FF love a bit of the old racism. If Ireland was as culturally diverse as England we would be even more racist. Instead of comparing ourselves to England on everything, how about trying to rid ourselves of it?
Greed has won, big finance has won. Whatever small role elite clubs still play in the local communities from which they grew is dwarfed now by their position as global brands.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote coyne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2019 at 8:48am
I dunno how you can even compare the 2 regarding racism

1 country has an MP who in the last 12 months described Muslim women as having faces like letterboxes and that they look like bank robbers. 7 months later he was allowed to stand for PM and won it!

The English media are quick to act upon major racist incidents abroad but there's a bigger problem closer to home.



Edited by coyne - 03 Dec 2019 at 8:49am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MC Hammered Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2019 at 9:11am

I'm not sure about the Gemma O'D comment PM. Just because she exists, it doesnt prove much. She consistently tanks at the polls and is hugely unpopular. Her meetings are hardly on the scale that  Tommy Robinson gets. A few clowns waving Irish flags outside Google is not exactly a movement. 

Undeniably, there is racism in Ireland but I don't think it's anywhere near as bad as the UK. 
We don't have any mainstream racist parties and our media is not on the same level as the sh1te they have over there. 




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drog addict Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2019 at 10:16am
I dont think we are anywhere racist as the brits. They think everyone is below them were we have some empathy towards  refugees and are more open and progressive than they are. There is racists in this country no doubt and are highly influenced by brit media, the same media that belittled us for many years. Much of the racism is brought about people looking to blame someone for their own sh*t life. Taking our jobs has to be top of the list of bullsh*t excuses and to honest I would rather employ some poor f**ker who travelled from Eritrea on dingys and in the back of a truck to come here to make a better life for himself than mick down the road who complains about doing an extra hour overtime and calls in sick on a Monday cause he was on the gargle all weekend.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MayoMark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2019 at 12:07pm
Originally posted by drog addict drog addict wrote:

mick down the road who complains about doing an extra hour overtime and calls in sick on a Monday cause he was on the gargle all weekend.

Racist
They finally did it man... They killed my f**kin' car...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tony Cousins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2019 at 1:21pm
Originally posted by Guppy Guppy wrote:

Originally posted by the_walls the_walls wrote:

Originally posted by Guppy Guppy wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

For some of us it is vital. I can’t imagine I will still be living here in a year if Johnson wins.

I agree it is vital, I’ll seriously have to consider moving to China or the Middle East if Corbyn wins. His list of taxes are ridiculous. I don’t fancy my job much in China but hey, if the UAE or Qatar won’t have me it’s better than Jeremy Land. 

Ireland is years behind England in particular in regards to racism etc. Britain has a much more diverse society from schooling, to the NHS. We’re still trying to get our heads around the Muslim faith in Ireland. 

Yeah that must be why Ireland has had the likes of UKIP and the BNP win seats at European elections and a movement comparable to Brexit fuelled by anti immigrant rhetoric. 

Regardless, Britain is still a more cultural diverse country.


We didn't have any colonies to import diversity from.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SunlunBhoy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2019 at 2:52pm
If the Tories get back in God help us (and I'm a atheist)
 
Labour through and through Jez we can
 
We can do it
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2019 at 6:49pm
Originally posted by MC Hammered MC Hammered wrote:


I'm not sure about the Gemma O'D comment PM. Just because she exists, it doesnt prove much. She consistently tanks at the polls and is hugely unpopular. Her meetings are hardly on the scale that  Tommy Robinson gets. A few clowns waving Irish flags outside Google is not exactly a movement. 

Undeniably, there is racism in Ireland but I don't think it's anywhere near as bad as the UK. 
We don't have any mainstream racist parties and our media is not on the same level as the sh1te they have over there. 




The fact she has a platform is enough. My point was that racism isn’t something that should be compared and be used for oneupmanship, doing so could be perceived as racist itself. I do believe that, given our history, there should be none whatsoever in Ireland. 
Also, and this is worth reiterating, nearly every Irish person, and I have been guilty myself, sees the travelling community as scum. There are few western nations with such appalling racism towards a single group, including the abomination that was/is Windrush.
Greed has won, big finance has won. Whatever small role elite clubs still play in the local communities from which they grew is dwarfed now by their position as global brands.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SuperDave84 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2019 at 10:46pm
Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by MC Hammered MC Hammered wrote:


I'm not sure about the Gemma O'D comment PM. Just because she exists, it doesnt prove much. She consistently tanks at the polls and is hugely unpopular. Her meetings are hardly on the scale that  Tommy Robinson gets. A few clowns waving Irish flags outside Google is not exactly a movement. 

Undeniably, there is racism in Ireland but I don't think it's anywhere near as bad as the UK. 
We don't have any mainstream racist parties and our media is not on the same level as the sh1te they have over there. 




The fact she has a platform is enough. My point was that racism isn’t something that should be compared and be used for oneupmanship, doing so could be perceived as racist itself. I do believe that, given our history, there should be none whatsoever in Ireland. 
Also, and this is worth reiterating, nearly every Irish person, and I have been guilty myself, sees the travelling community as scum. There are few western nations with such appalling racism towards a single group, including the abomination that was/is Windrush.


I agree 100% on the travelling community point. They are roundly, routinely and wrongfully castigated. And I've been guilty too, making cheap jokes, and I'm not the only one.

But on GOD, the fact she has "a platform" isn't Ireland's problem, it's a simple fact of unrestricted access to social media. Ireland isn't to blame that she's a melt on twitter.


Edited by SuperDave84 - 03 Dec 2019 at 10:52pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2019 at 10:50pm
Originally posted by SuperDave84 SuperDave84 wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by MC Hammered MC Hammered wrote:


I'm not sure about the Gemma O'D comment PM. Just because she exists, it doesnt prove much. She consistently tanks at the polls and is hugely unpopular. Her meetings are hardly on the scale that  Tommy Robinson gets. A few clowns waving Irish flags outside Google is not exactly a movement. 

Undeniably, there is racism in Ireland but I don't think it's anywhere near as bad as the UK. 
We don't have any mainstream racist parties and our media is not on the same level as the sh1te they have over there. 




The fact she has a platform is enough. My point was that racism isn’t something that should be compared and be used for oneupmanship, doing so could be perceived as racist itself. I do believe that, given our history, there should be none whatsoever in Ireland. 
Also, and this is worth reiterating, nearly every Irish person, and I have been guilty myself, sees the travelling community as scum. There are few western nations with such appalling racism towards a single group, including the abomination that was/is Windrush.


I agree 100% on the travelling community point myself. They are roundly, routinely and wrongfully castigated.

But on GOD, the fact she has "a platform" isn't Ireland's problem, it's a simple fact of unrestricted access to social media. Ireland isn't to blame that she's a melt on twitter.
The fact she is not treated as a complete joke, by everyone, is Ireland’s problem. 
Greed has won, big finance has won. Whatever small role elite clubs still play in the local communities from which they grew is dwarfed now by their position as global brands.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SuperDave84 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2019 at 10:56pm
She lost her deposit in the last election and got 4.1% of the first preference vote. Given that even Screaming Lord Sutch has got a higher percentage of the vote than that (4.2%, Rotherham, 1994), that's surely treating her as a joke.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2019 at 11:01pm
Originally posted by SuperDave84 SuperDave84 wrote:

She lost her deposit in the last election and got 4.1% of the first preference vote. Given that even Screaming Lord Sutch has got a higher percentage of the vote than that (4.2%, Rotherham, 1994), that's surely treating her as a joke.
I don’t think 4% is enough of a joke, no. I would also question why she gets so much media coverage for that. I have absolutely no idea what Sutch has to do with this?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SuperDave84 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Dec 2019 at 11:51pm
Sutch is literally a joke candidate who got more of a vote.

4% isn't ideal, of course, but it is still very low; the fact she lost her deposit demonstrates how unpopular she is.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 2019 at 6:59am
Originally posted by SuperDave84 SuperDave84 wrote:

Sutch is literally a joke candidate who got more of a vote.

4% isn't ideal, of course, but it is still very low; the fact she lost her deposit demonstrates how unpopular she is.
He wasn’t really though! He was, essentially, the anarchist option for people who don’t believe in choosing their masters or for those who felt they didn’t have a candidate. I believe that while Sutch never discussed his political philosophy openly, for fear of undermining his own attempts at undermining, he was very much an anarchist. It may have been done as a joke, but like many jokes there was a seriousness to it. There are a lot of elections in history, both in Britain and Ireland, where I would have voted for such a candidate!

It may demonstrate how unpopular she is, but only to an extent. She isn’t really a politician though, she is a journalist and as a result gets more media coverage than she deserves. She is Ireland’s Tommy Robinson, who himself got around 2% of the vote in the European elections in May. I feel there is a stronger comparison there.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Het-field Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 2019 at 11:25am
I’d fundamentally disagree that Ireland and the UK are capable of comparison on an electoral level in terms of immigration related voting. Ireland has never really had a history of giving more than a token scratch to candidates who make immigration or immigration control a central aspect of their platform. A prime example was the paltry vote the ICP used get when it stood candidates under the banner. The votes never tolled more than several hundred and in combination wouldn’t amount to a quota in any other constituency. Equally, we have had a handful of independent candidates who are not party registered and are irrelevant to the point of obtaining double figure votes, and making absolutely no impact at all.

Two exceptions might be Libertas in 2009 and Casey’s presidential Run. But, in Libertas’ case, it very specific to EU integration under the Lisbon Treaty as opposed to anything immigration related. Casey seemed more set on the Trump style outrageous statement approach, employing the nonsensical “say it as it really is” mantra. But, the common denominator in those cases was the profile and the resources available. The resources provided an avenue for a platform so as a result it’s hard to know if their limited and comparable success was based on a right leaning agenda, or they had the resources to get it out. But, it should be noted that neither Casey or Libertas were elected to any office.

When it has come to the conservative agenda, Ireland has not generally been guided by immigration issues, but by Christian values. The relatively high votes (compared with immigration control candidates) for parties like the CSP and the former iteration of the National Party speaks to this.

This is in comparison to the UK who had council’s under the control of the BNP, and given them 1% of the overall vote at a General Election, while voting two members in as MEP’s. And that’s only one aspect. You could delve deeper into the phenomenon of people voting Tory for immigration issues, the reformation of UKIP as an anti immigration orienteered party, the myriad of small far right parties that get several hundred votes in each constituency etc. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote **** Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 2019 at 11:30am
Can we get to f**k back to the UK election please. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote coyne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 2019 at 12:04pm
Originally posted by **** **** wrote:

Can we get to f**k back to the UK election please. 

+1. Some nonsense posted last 48 hours and it wasn’t just the idiot Tory Shinner
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Het-field Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Dec 2019 at 12:06pm
Sorry, but why do people feel the need to backseat moderate discussions. It’s the “UK Politics” thread and not specific to the General Election.
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