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SuperDave84 View Drop Down
Robbie Keane
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This Labour anti-semitism stuff is serious, but it seems to be being used to distract from the impending clusterf**k of a no-deal Brexit.
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Originally posted by SuperDave84 SuperDave84 wrote:


This Labour anti-semitism stuff is serious, but it seems to be being used to distract from the impending clusterf**k of a no-deal Brexit.

UK people very unlucky at the minute, not only do they have possibly the worst government in their history, they have managed to have the worst opposition as well, all at the same time. 

Any opposition politician who was any way rational or had half arsed analysis on Brexit done would have gone against it instinctively. Instead, Corbyn tried to dilute the Tory version a little bit, thinking that might be a bit more palatable to the masses while being able to persuade the Daily Mail type idiots that it wasn't so bad. 

Looking at his history, you would think supporting brexit, in any form, was based more on his personal opinion than anything else, it certainly wasn't taken from a poll of those who voted for him & his party in the last election, a lot of whom were under 30 & a demographic overwhelmingly against brexit.  

As all this is going on, he gets himself mired in an anti-semitism row, which has basically split the Labour party into those who support him in the manner of a leadership cult, and those who don't. Some of those who don't would quite like to see Labour rowing back on their Brexit stance, but his cult like supporters will hear none of it. Tories are happy to see Labour split (for any given reason) as it takes the focus off them & their Brexit mess, so keep adding fuel to the fire via their right wing media allies. He won't escape from this either, so effectively, there is no opposition to the Tories other than Michel Barnier and a small handful of relatively sane media outlets. 
Picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue.....
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Originally posted by deise316 deise316 wrote:

Originally posted by SuperDave84 SuperDave84 wrote:


This Labour anti-semitism stuff is serious, but it seems to be being used to distract from the impending clusterf**k of a no-deal Brexit.
As all this is going on, he gets himself mired in an anti-semitism row, which has basically split the Labour party into those who support him in the manner of a leadership cult, and those who don't. Some of those who don't would quite like to see Labour rowing back on their Brexit stance, but his cult like supporters will hear none of it. 

Not really.
Both sides have 1 thing in common, both sides are bored of the internal fighting now. 

6 months ago I said Labour were a government in waiting, now over the next 18 months they'd be lucky to get even close to the required amount - and I've got a good track record of these predictions!

Everyone's just bored now, no one could frankly give a f**k what Corbyn's views are at this point, just bored.

Magaret Hodge seems hell bent on continuing the fight though by today comparing Labour to Jews in the 1930's. Just sack the stupid bitch already and move on.


Edited by coyne - 17 Aug 2018 at 1:22am
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Borussia View Drop Down
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Saw an article the other day speculating whether a new centerist party might emerge from all of this mess. Would certainly be interesting....
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pre Madonna View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Borussia Borussia wrote:

Saw an article the other day speculating whether a new centerist party might emerge from all of this mess. Would certainly be interesting....
Like New Labour? f**king hell!! Labour leans left for a weekend and everybody panics.
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Roy Keane
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Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by Borussia Borussia wrote:

Saw an article the other day speculating whether a new centerist party might emerge from all of this mess. Would certainly be interesting....
Like New Labour? f**king hell!! Labour leans left for a weekend and everybody panics.

I think it's less about Labour leaning left but more about how much of a clusterf**k all of the main parties currently are. 
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pre Madonna View Drop Down
Robbie Keane
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Points: 44659 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 2018 at 7:42am
Originally posted by Borussia Borussia wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by Borussia Borussia wrote:

Saw an article the other day speculating whether a new centerist party might emerge from all of this mess. Would certainly be interesting....
Like New Labour? f**king hell!! Labour leans left for a weekend and everybody panics.

I think it's less about Labour leaning left but more about how much of a clusterf**k all of the main parties currently are. 
Where , apart from the media, is Labour a clusterf**k?
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Roy Keane
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Points: 10724 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Borussia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 2018 at 7:48am
Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by Borussia Borussia wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by Borussia Borussia wrote:

Saw an article the other day speculating whether a new centerist party might emerge from all of this mess. Would certainly be interesting....
Like New Labour? f**king hell!! Labour leans left for a weekend and everybody panics.

I think it's less about Labour leaning left but more about how much of a clusterf**k all of the main parties currently are. 
Where , apart from the media, is Labour a clusterf**k?

The Antisemitism is a big problem which I don't think Corbyn is doing enough to address. And there position on Brexit is like a moving target : You never know exactly what it is. They are real issues.
And I say all this as somebody who has voted Labour every single time (withe one exception) since I moved to England and want to see the tories well and truly kicked to touch at the next general election. But I worry that unless Labour and Corbyn don't get the house in order then they'll let the tories off the hook. 
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pre Madonna View Drop Down
Robbie Keane
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Points: 44659 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 2018 at 8:02am
Originally posted by Borussia Borussia wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by Borussia Borussia wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by Borussia Borussia wrote:

Saw an article the other day speculating whether a new centerist party might emerge from all of this mess. Would certainly be interesting....
Like New Labour? f**king hell!! Labour leans left for a weekend and everybody panics.

I think it's less about Labour leaning left but more about how much of a clusterf**k all of the main parties currently are. 
Where , apart from the media, is Labour a clusterf**k?

The Antisemitism is a big problem which I don't think Corbyn is doing enough to address. And there position on Brexit is like a moving target : You never know exactly what it is. They are real issues.
And I say all this as somebody who has voted Labour every single time (withe one exception) since I moved to England and want to see the tories well and truly kicked to touch at the next general election. But I worry that unless Labour and Corbyn don't get the house in order then they'll let the tories off the hook. 
I think you are buying into the media spin too much. They are more worried about whether Corbyn once stood near someone who was anti-Semitic than the whole Windrush scandal.That is genuine racism and it is hardly mentioned in the media now, what should be the biggest scandal in modern British politics. These ****s want a 'liberal'(Dead) Labour party,as it suits their agenda and  not a proper Labour party.
 Also, and I can't state this strongly enough, no party should sign up to the IHRA's view of anti-Semitism, not as long as Israel gets carte blanche from it. If you don't want the Nazi comparisons, don't support a fascist state.
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Roy Keane
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Joined: 14 Oct 2010
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Points: 10724 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Borussia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 2018 at 8:04am
Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by Borussia Borussia wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by Borussia Borussia wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by Borussia Borussia wrote:

Saw an article the other day speculating whether a new centerist party might emerge from all of this mess. Would certainly be interesting....
Like New Labour? f**king hell!! Labour leans left for a weekend and everybody panics.

I think it's less about Labour leaning left but more about how much of a clusterf**k all of the main parties currently are. 
Where , apart from the media, is Labour a clusterf**k?

The Antisemitism is a big problem which I don't think Corbyn is doing enough to address. And there position on Brexit is like a moving target : You never know exactly what it is. They are real issues.
And I say all this as somebody who has voted Labour every single time (withe one exception) since I moved to England and want to see the tories well and truly kicked to touch at the next general election. But I worry that unless Labour and Corbyn don't get the house in order then they'll let the tories off the hook. 
I think you are buying into the media spin too much. They are more worried about whether Corbyn once stood near someone who was anti-Semitic than the whole Windrush scandal.That is genuine racism and it is hardly mentioned in the media now, what should be the biggest scandal in modern British politics. These ****s want a 'liberal'(Dead) Labour party,as it suits their agenda and  not a proper Labour party.
 Also, and I can't state this strongly enough, no party should sign up to the IHRA's view of anti-Semitism, not as long as Israel gets carte blanche from it. If you don't want the Nazi comparisons, don't support a fascist state.

There will definitely be spin from the right wing elements of the media who will milk this for all it's worth but plenty of the Jewish MPs in his own party are not happy with how he is dealing with things and that is a real issue. 
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pre Madonna View Drop Down
Robbie Keane
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Points: 44659 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 2018 at 8:12am
Originally posted by Borussia Borussia wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by Borussia Borussia wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by Borussia Borussia wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by Borussia Borussia wrote:

Saw an article the other day speculating whether a new centerist party might emerge from all of this mess. Would certainly be interesting....
Like New Labour? f**king hell!! Labour leans left for a weekend and everybody panics.

I think it's less about Labour leaning left but more about how much of a clusterf**k all of the main parties currently are. 
Where , apart from the media, is Labour a clusterf**k?

The Antisemitism is a big problem which I don't think Corbyn is doing enough to address. And there position on Brexit is like a moving target : You never know exactly what it is. They are real issues.
And I say all this as somebody who has voted Labour every single time (withe one exception) since I moved to England and want to see the tories well and truly kicked to touch at the next general election. But I worry that unless Labour and Corbyn don't get the house in order then they'll let the tories off the hook. 
I think you are buying into the media spin too much. They are more worried about whether Corbyn once stood near someone who was anti-Semitic than the whole Windrush scandal.That is genuine racism and it is hardly mentioned in the media now, what should be the biggest scandal in modern British politics. These ****s want a 'liberal'(Dead) Labour party,as it suits their agenda and  not a proper Labour party.
 Also, and I can't state this strongly enough, no party should sign up to the IHRA's view of anti-Semitism, not as long as Israel gets carte blanche from it. If you don't want the Nazi comparisons, don't support a fascist state.

There will definitely be spin from the right wing elements of the media who will milk this for all it's worth but plenty of the Jewish MPs in his own party are not happy with how he is dealing with things and that is a real issue. 
Most of them were happy with Blair though, right? Margaret Hodge and her ilk were happy to wage war and kill innocent people, just as long as they were Muslim and it helped the economy. Not so long ago she referred to said war as meely a 'big mistake' and now she is seen as 'the voice of reason', i.e a typical liberal, within the Labour Party. 
I don't say this often, but I hope she dies roaring from an ineffectual NHS. That would be justice.
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Roy Keane
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Points: 10724 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Borussia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 2018 at 8:14am
Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by Borussia Borussia wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by Borussia Borussia wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by Borussia Borussia wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by Borussia Borussia wrote:

Saw an article the other day speculating whether a new centerist party might emerge from all of this mess. Would certainly be interesting....
Like New Labour? f**king hell!! Labour leans left for a weekend and everybody panics.

I think it's less about Labour leaning left but more about how much of a clusterf**k all of the main parties currently are. 
Where , apart from the media, is Labour a clusterf**k?

The Antisemitism is a big problem which I don't think Corbyn is doing enough to address. And there position on Brexit is like a moving target : You never know exactly what it is. They are real issues.
And I say all this as somebody who has voted Labour every single time (withe one exception) since I moved to England and want to see the tories well and truly kicked to touch at the next general election. But I worry that unless Labour and Corbyn don't get the house in order then they'll let the tories off the hook. 
I think you are buying into the media spin too much. They are more worried about whether Corbyn once stood near someone who was anti-Semitic than the whole Windrush scandal.That is genuine racism and it is hardly mentioned in the media now, what should be the biggest scandal in modern British politics. These ****s want a 'liberal'(Dead) Labour party,as it suits their agenda and  not a proper Labour party.
 Also, and I can't state this strongly enough, no party should sign up to the IHRA's view of anti-Semitism, not as long as Israel gets carte blanche from it. If you don't want the Nazi comparisons, don't support a fascist state.

There will definitely be spin from the right wing elements of the media who will milk this for all it's worth but plenty of the Jewish MPs in his own party are not happy with how he is dealing with things and that is a real issue. 
Most of them were happy with Blair though, right? Margaret Hodge and her ilk were happy to wage war and kill innocent people, just as long as they were Muslim and it helped the economy. Not so long ago she referred to said war as meely a 'big mistake' and now she is seen as 'the voice of reason', i.e a typical liberal, within the Labour Party. 
I don't say this often, but I hope she dies roaring from an ineffectual NHS. That would be justice.

I was thinking less of her and more of the likes of Luciana Berger - But either way, a divided labour risks letting the tories back in by default. 
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Robbie Keane
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The greyest member of the Labour backbenches?She is hardly Dennis Skinner, is she?

I would much prefer a proper Labour Party, a true movement for the people who live here, not what the likes of Berger want. We need to fight the Tories, not be a lighter version of them.
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Roy Keane
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Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Where , apart from the media, is Labour a clusterf**k?

Even parking the Anti Semitism issue, the Brexit strategy, the musical chairs of the shadow cabinet, the incoherent policy are just some of the things which have made this incarnation of the Labour Party a shambles. 
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Criticise Corbyn all ye want for his Brexit policy, which he can be legitimately be criticised for sure. He's been caught between two stools for far too long and the time for that is over.

But the anti-semitism thing is a fake, manufactured scandal. It's Orwellian. 

Anti-semitism is a cancer, but to single out Corbyn and the Labour party over it is grotesque, and trivialises and weaponises the issue in a grotesque manner.

The people who are doing this don't give a flying f**k about anti-semtism. They just want to destroy Corbyn at any cost.

And the whole time the Tories are let off the hook over the racism which is inherent in the party.

Sure here's a nice cup of tea for yis.



Edited by sid waddell - 17 Aug 2018 at 11:52am
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Roy Keane
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Sid, the wider issue in the Labour Party is not manufactured. There have been suspensions etc handed down to members ranging from the Parlimentary Party, to the Councillors forum to the ordinary members in relation to the issue.
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Roy Keane
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Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Sid, the wider issue in the Labour Party is not manufactured. There have been suspensions etc handed down to members ranging from the Parlimentary Party, to the Councillors forum to the ordinary members in relation to the issue.
It is largely manufactured because it's only Labour that is being focussed on - everybody else in politics and in the media is being given a free ride on this.

Anti-semitism exists across society and there is nothing to say the Labour party has a bigger problem with it than anywhere else. 

It's a classic double bind. The fact there have been suspensions handed out shows that the party is actually dealing with incidents of anti-semitism. 

Then, because these suspensions have been handed out, the media claims it's specifically Labour which has a problem. Then the doubles down and ramps it up and says they're not doing enough. 

That smear strategy has been in place since Corbyn was elected. It's being driven for a number of reasons - the Blairite MPs have always wanted him out as soon as possible, and the pro-Israel lobby deems it unacceptable for the leader of one of the two major parties to have a position which is not slavishly pro-Israel. The Tory media also hates his economic position in general. 

The easiest way to smear somebody is to paint them as anti-semitic, which in Corbyn's case is clearly ludicrous.

Hodge has jumped the shark on this in a big way and is an embarrassment to herself. Only a fool doesn't see the irony of deeming any comparison of the Israeli regime's actions to the Nazis as unacceptable, and then turns around and compares Corbyn to a Nazi. 
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Roy Keane
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The problem is more complex. The suspensions have had a mixed reaction in the party. Ken Livingstone is the best example. Some genuinely see him as some form of victim, and again that ranges from members of Parliament all the way down to elements of the common membership. The lethargy in dealing with Livingstone gave rise to major ill feeling. Labour may not be the only ones, but there is an issue there, which has been brought to light. The fact that other parties have similar issues should not shut down the debate about the Labour Party and these concerns. In that event you could just keep pointing fingers at the GOP and use that for moral superiority to avoid actually getting to grips with internal problems.
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