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Roy Keane
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Het-field Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2018 at 5:13pm
Originally posted by Denis Irwin Denis Irwin wrote:


Window dressing exercise 

Obama wouldn't have done anything like this with no concessions. Trump torn up the Iran deal with numerous concessions from the Iranians yet the Trump cultists want you to believe that today was a huge thing despite no concessions were given by NK

Honestly, I don't think it can be conjectured what Obama would have done or wouldn't have done. I'm talking more in terms of actually arranging the summit itself and having the US and North Korea at the same table.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Denis Irwin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2018 at 5:19pm
Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Originally posted by Denis Irwin Denis Irwin wrote:


Window dressing exercise 

Obama wouldn't have done anything like this with no concessions. Trump torn up the Iran deal with numerous concessions from the Iranians yet the Trump cultists want you to believe that today was a huge thing despite no concessions were given by NK

Honestly, I don't think it can be conjectured what Obama would have done or wouldn't have done. I'm talking more in terms of actually arranging the summit itself and having the US and North Korea at the same table.

Doubtful you would have anything as high level as this. There's a reason why other US Presidents haven't done this. This is a huge propaganda coup for NK at no cost to them that every previous Administration was wide to. All Trump is looking for is Trump Tower Pyongyang 
Eamonn Dunphy:"I'll tell you who wrote it, Rod Liddle, he's the guy who ran away and left his wife for a young one".

Bill O'Herlihy: Ah ye can't be saying that now Eamonn
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Het-field Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2018 at 5:25pm
Originally posted by Denis Irwin Denis Irwin wrote:


Doubtful you would have anything as high level as this. There's a reason why other US Presidents haven't done this. This is a huge propaganda coup for NK at no cost to them that every previous Administration was wide to. All Trump is looking for is Trump Tower Pyongyang 

I'm trying to figure out if the last part of the agreement, namely the deneuclarisation of the peninsula was to occur, is that not a win? The fact that there appears to be a commitment of sorts has to be positive. As a comparison, the Iran agreement was effectively to adjourn Iran's nuclear building for a set number of years. It was not permanent and it will require revisiting in time, not that US withdrawal was anything but a really bad thing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Denis Irwin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2018 at 5:27pm
Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Originally posted by Denis Irwin Denis Irwin wrote:


Doubtful you would have anything as high level as this. There's a reason why other US Presidents haven't done this. This is a huge propaganda coup for NK at no cost to them that every previous Administration was wide to. All Trump is looking for is Trump Tower Pyongyang 

I'm trying to figure out if the last part of the agreement, namely the deneuclarisation of the peninsula was to occur, is that not a win? The fact that there appears to be a commitment of sorts has to be positive. As a comparison, the Iran agreement was effectively to adjourn Iran's nuclear building for a set number of years. It was not permanent and it will require revisiting in time, not that US withdrawal was anything but a really bad thing.

There is no commitment to any of that 


Now that we’ve been given their statement it is far less than advertised. No new commitments. No timetable. No definitions. Glad they met but no breakthroughs

Eamonn Dunphy:"I'll tell you who wrote it, Rod Liddle, he's the guy who ran away and left his wife for a young one".

Bill O'Herlihy: Ah ye can't be saying that now Eamonn
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Het-field Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2018 at 5:29pm
I'm just repeating what I read on BBC and RTÉ. It lacks any substance, which is in itself a problem, but it seems there is a pledge.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Denis Irwin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2018 at 5:30pm
Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

I'm just repeating what I read on BBC and RTÉ. It lacks any substance, which is in itself a problem, but it seems there is a pledge.


Which isn't worth sh*t given the two people involved are narcissistic liars


Edited by Denis Irwin - 12 Jun 2018 at 5:31pm
Eamonn Dunphy:"I'll tell you who wrote it, Rod Liddle, he's the guy who ran away and left his wife for a young one".

Bill O'Herlihy: Ah ye can't be saying that now Eamonn
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Het-field Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2018 at 5:32pm
Originally posted by Denis Irwin Denis Irwin wrote:



Which isn't worth sh*t given the two people involved are narcissistic liars

Agreed. But it is there, and if this was to form the basis of something, eventually, it is useful.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote planning Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2018 at 6:39pm
Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

To evaluate this, I think you have to ask yourself what your feelings would be if it was Obama in Trump's shoes. In a vacuum of course, as his behaviour last weekend was contemptible, but does this merit credit as an individual piece of diplomacy, or is the whole thing a window dressing exercise with little substance.

There were no expectations going into the summit. In fact, the lefties were willing it to fail, so they could boast "told you so", and forecasting dire consequences. Now that it went better than expected, they're going out of their way to discredit it as "nothing to see here".

As with most things, Obama sat on his hands, did nothing, and let the mass murderer develop as many rockets as he pleased. Trump hasn't done that, and won't. The punishing sanctions he had imposed, have finally brought the mass murderer round to the negotiating table, begging for mercy. And Trump has said he's getting nothing of the sort without denuclearization.

Peace processes anywhere in the world, take time at the best of the times, often years of difficult negotiations. It took 3 years from the first meeting between Reagan and Gorbachov to sign their nuclear agreement. Today it took 4.5 hours, and the start of a process that at least has got off to a positive start, and provided something for the various parties involved to work with.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SuperDave84 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2018 at 6:40pm
If it is a first step, great. It can be nothing more than that but frankly it is a lot better than things were this time two years ago.

I think Trump definitely deserves credit for this. However, the next step needs to be a return to the six party talks. Without those, there won't be genuine progress. A series of bilateral talks are liable to lead to agreeing things with one country that another won't abide by.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Denis Irwin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2018 at 6:43pm
Originally posted by planning planning wrote:

Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

To evaluate this, I think you have to ask yourself what your feelings would be if it was Obama in Trump's shoes. In a vacuum of course, as his behaviour last weekend was contemptible, but does this merit credit as an individual piece of diplomacy, or is the whole thing a window dressing exercise with little substance.

There were no expectations going into the summit. In fact, the lefties were willing it to fail, so they could boast "told you so", and forecasting dire consequences. Now that it went better than expected, they're going out of their way to discredit it as "nothing to see here".

As with most things, Obama sat on his hands, did nothing, and let the mass murderer develop as many rockets as he pleased. Trump hasn't done that, and won't. The punishing sanctions he had imposed, have finally brought the mass murderer round to the negotiating table, begging for mercy. And Trump has said he's getting nothing of the sort without denuclearization.

Peace processes anywhere in the world, take time at the best of the times, often years of difficult negotiations. It took 3 years from the first meeting between Reagan and Gorbachov to sign their nuclear agreement. Today it took 4.5 hours, and the start of a process that at least has got off to a positive start, and provided something for the various parties involved to work with.

Good god that is some tripe. The man can barely string sentences together and you believe he's going to achieve something here. You must be a goldmine for conmen if you think he can negotiate anything like this.

This was a photo op nothing more than that 
Eamonn Dunphy:"I'll tell you who wrote it, Rod Liddle, he's the guy who ran away and left his wife for a young one".

Bill O'Herlihy: Ah ye can't be saying that now Eamonn
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Denis Irwin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2018 at 6:44pm
The only one who has done anything of significance is the SK President. 


Eamonn Dunphy:"I'll tell you who wrote it, Rod Liddle, he's the guy who ran away and left his wife for a young one".

Bill O'Herlihy: Ah ye can't be saying that now Eamonn
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bob Hoskins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2018 at 7:21pm
A photo op for NK. You could be right, and seeing as you have an insight into the workings of this process, what is NK's angle here? 



Romario 2016: And the ticket mafia gets caught! Well, four years ago I had already told the government.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bob Hoskins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2018 at 11:13pm
Video Trump played to Kim LOL






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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TonyNotJack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2018 at 12:14am
I love the bit about almost all of us 7 billion plebs being so irrelevant.There will never be another President as weird as Trump.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote deise316 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2018 at 12:28am
Originally posted by TonyNotJack TonyNotJack wrote:

I love the bit about almost all of us 7 billion plebs being so irrelevant.There will never be another President as weird as Trump.

That's a big call, wait til the Republicans elect an inanimate carbon rod next time around. Actually, f**k it, your point still stands. 


Picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue.....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote planning Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2018 at 1:17am
Originally posted by Denis Irwin Denis Irwin wrote:

Good god that is some tripe. The man can barely string sentences together and you believe he's going to achieve something here. You must be a goldmine for conmen if you think he can negotiate anything like this.

This was a photo op nothing more than that

It was a lot more than that. After 70 years of mutual distrust and suspicion, the summit was a very successful first step towards lasting peace. China, Japan, and South Korea have all acknowledged that, which speaks volumes.

The mass murderer has one shot at peacemaker. Assuming he delivers his end of the declaration, he can have his grand photo op at the White House. If he goes back to his old ways, Trump and his regional allies will do whatever is necessary to sort the problem.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roberto Baggio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2018 at 8:56am
If you read back on this thread less than a year people were predicting the end of the world was nigh. Two mad men in power on either side of the globe itching to fire nuclear bombs at each other.
 
Its ok to admit you were wrong lads. Yesterday's developments, no matter the intentions of Trump, can only be welcomed surely, thinking back to the scaremongering of a year or so ago.
 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Devrozex Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2018 at 9:54am
Originally posted by Bob Hoskins Bob Hoskins wrote:

Video Trump played to Kim LOL

 
 
The line between real life and parody has become incredibly blurred under the Trump administration.
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