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Turkey vs ROI-- 23rd March
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Robbie Keane
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Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Not specifically Whelan, but we will learn even less by throwing a rookie team out there and they will learn even less again.


Totally agree. The 5-1 defeat to Denmark is not our level. That result is not a reason to toss a wholesale amount of players. We need to incrementally develop new players, within the context of established players.


+1

I also wouldn't start anymore than 3/4 maximum of new players in the starting line up as it would be just as pointless fielding an entire new team (that would never start a competitive game) as fielding the established one with a couple of cameo roles.

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Yes. You put out a realistic team with maybe 3 new starters and bring on 1 or 2 more as subs.  If Maguire doesn't start it will be a joke. 
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Originally posted by irishmufc irishmufc wrote:

 

+1

I also wouldn't start anymore than 3/4 maximum of new players in the starting line up as it would be just as pointless fielding an entire new team (that would never start a competitive game) as fielding the established one with a couple of cameo roles.


The games against Mexico and Iceland last year are in my mind. It gives little or no context to start and experimental eleven for the sake of it. If all players were available, I would think that it would be beneficial to start 7/8 experienced players, with the rest as new players. For example, i would have no problem starting Hogan and Maguire together, Rice and Doherty in the defence, and Hourihane in the midfield. But the rest of the team should include the likes of Randolph, Coleman, Duffy, McClean etc. And not only that, I would avoid the cameo style appearances, which can tell little or nothing about a player, or in a game which may not suit them. I would also avoid, swapping out experienced heads for new caps.

I agree that a forward looking approach is key, but it has to be done sensibly. My concern is that MON may not be interested in necessary overhaul, and with Wes and Murphy being the only retirements there is little tangible need to change hugely, in spite of that fact that some change is necessary. 
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Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Originally posted by irishmufc irishmufc wrote:

 

+1

I also wouldn't start anymore than 3/4 maximum of new players in the starting line up as it would be just as pointless fielding an entire new team (that would never start a competitive game) as fielding the established one with a couple of cameo roles.


The games against Mexico and Iceland last year are in my mind. It gives little or no context to start and experimental eleven for the sake of it. If all players were available, I would think that it would be beneficial to start 7/8 experienced players, with the rest as new players. For example, i would have no problem starting Hogan and Maguire together, Rice and Doherty in the defence, and Hourihane in the midfield. But the rest of the team should include the likes of Randolph, Coleman, Duffy, McClean etc. And not only that, I would avoid the cameo style appearances, which can tell little or nothing about a player, or in a game which may not suit them. I would also avoid, swapping out experienced heads for new caps.

I agree that a forward looking approach is key, but it has to be done sensibly. My concern is that MON may not be interested in necessary overhaul, and with Wes and Murphy being the only retirements there is little tangible need to change hugely, in spite of that fact that some change is necessary. 
Yeah, that is how I would see it. The result may ultimately not matter here but it needs to be treated somewhat competitively by the management team. Maguire deserves to start, if fully fit, as does Rice and possibly one of Hourihane or Browne, surrounded by the better experienced players who will still make up the backbone of the team.
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Originally posted by Denis Irwin Denis Irwin wrote:

5:30 our time 7:30 Turkish time afaik


hope so I'm going to a Christy Moore show that nignt at 8pm, be nice to catch the match in a pub before hand
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Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Originally posted by ShamtheRam ShamtheRam wrote:

John O'Shea, Glenn Whelan and Aiden McGeady haven't seem to have found the sense to retire as of yet.... I hope MON has the balls to make the decision for them

Being honest, I don't think there is any need for them to retire. Either they should be selected on merit, or left out to prove themselves worthy of a place in the team.

Which has been a key issue of the National team for a good 2-3 campaigns now, there's far too many passengers in the squad getting called up without merit and just for the absolute sake of it.

Shamtheram isn't wrong suggesting the players shouldn't be there - They're all so badly out of form and/or playing at a very poor standard of football atm they shouldn't be even remotely close, and add McShane to the list.
And when you have the likes of Maguire, Browne, Doherty, Hogan, Horgan all still waiting for an appearance if the former are still getting call-ups before the new breed of players, it'd be an absolute disgrace.

No one has said the latter list of players should be immediately starting games, I do agree with what people have said about starting Maguire and 1/2 others and then implementing the others via substitutions etc.
But what I fear the most is the likelihood of MON changing up his system in order to suit the new players coming in is very low - For Maguire/Hogan to work I do think we need them both on the pitch at the same time, Maguire is definitely not a long-ball type of Striker, and I even think Long would benefit from having someone else beside him.


Edited by coyne - 04 Mar 2018 at 6:46pm
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I’m all for bringing in new blood but playing a lot of players together
for the first time on the road could get ugly fast... think 0-6 or 1-5
After what the Danes did to us do we really want another hammering?
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Originally posted by garretjoseph garretjoseph wrote:

I’m all for bringing in new blood but playing a lot of players together
for the first time on the road could get ugly fast... think 0-6 or 1-5
After what the Danes did to us do we really want another hammering?



If your not going to play new faces in games like this when are you going to play them? Not much point going over to Turkey for a week's training camp and a friendly to name 8 or 9 regulars in the starting 11

Only way we going to know if these lads are ready is if we play them and oneil needs to start doing so in the friendlies (it's not like the usual starting 11 have been doing great in the friendlies last few years anyway)

I don't think should start 8 or 9 new faces but definitely room for between 4 to 6 new faces to start and get a good 50/60 minutes

Edited by ringerbell - 05 Mar 2018 at 7:35am
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Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by ShamtheRam ShamtheRam wrote:

John O'Shea, Glenn Whelan and Aiden McGeady haven't seem to have found the sense to retire as of yet.... I hope MON has the balls to make the decision for them
It may seem like sense for them to retire,in your opinion, but, despite their limitations, who is better than them, or even potentially better than them, that can be selected?
I think it's great that they dont retire...nothing worse in hearing "I'm retiring to prolong my club career".
"Killer" never retired, they just stopped picking him ...I have the utmost respect for him because of that,,,
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If I was good enough to play for my country, I would not retire from international football, ever. I think a lot of us here would be the same. If you are good enough, you'd want to play.

You have to trust the manager to do what is in the best interests of the country, both in the short term and the longer term, and if that means selecting players who are older, so be it. If all things are equal, it makes sense to have a blend of experience and youth; it is preferable if the players don't take that option away from him.
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Originally posted by ringerbell ringerbell wrote:

Originally posted by garretjoseph garretjoseph wrote:

I’m all for bringing in new blood but playing a lot of players together
for the first time on the road could get ugly fast... think 0-6 or 1-5
After what the Danes did to us do we really want another hammering?



If your not going to play new faces in games like this when are you going to play them? Not much point going over to Turkey for a week's training camp and a friendly to name 8 or 9 regulars in the starting 11

Only way we going to know if these lads are ready is if we play them and oneil needs to start doing so in the friendlies (it's not like the usual starting 11 have been doing great in the friendlies last few years anyway)

I don't think should start 8 or 9 new faces but definitely room for between 4 to 6 new faces to start and get a good 50/60 minutes
Because if we do this nobody will lead anything. Can anybody tell me what we learned from Portugal or Mexico?
A strong eleven with a couple of the lads who have played their way into contention getting a further chance to bed in. I also hope there is no more than 3/4 subs,maximum, or else this whole thing will be yet another pointless exercise.
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----------Randolph------------

----Coleman--Duffy---Rice---Doherty------

--Hendrick----Arter----Hourihane--McClean

---------------Hogan------Maguire---------

I'd be happy with a team like this. Not necessarily in the 4-4-2 formation, or with precisely the same people in the lineup. I also feel it is not helped by injuries to Brady, Walters, and McCarthy, as clarity is lost.

The type of subs I would like to see would be Rob Elliott, Kevin Long, Ciaran Clark, Shane Long, Alan Browne, and Greg Cunningham.
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Making that many subs will completely defeat the purpose. Also, well Doherty started out as a left- back, he has made his case for selection on the opposite side and should really be given his chance there. I also feel that MON doesn't like him.
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Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:


Making that many subs will completely defeat the purpose. Also, well Doherty started out as a left- back, he has made his case for selection on the opposite side and should really be given his chance there. I also feel that MON doesn't like him.


Fair point on Doherty. It would be a shame if there was a personal issue which interfered with him getting into the team. He has been very well regarded this term, and on merit should be in front of Christie at the moment. I would agree about not making too many subs at the same time, but those are the players I feel need to be used during the friendly matches.

Edited by Het-field - 05 Mar 2018 at 12:38pm
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Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by ringerbell ringerbell wrote:

Originally posted by garretjoseph garretjoseph wrote:

I’m all for bringing in new blood but playing a lot of players together
for the first time on the road could get ugly fast... think 0-6 or 1-5
After what the Danes did to us do we really want another hammering?



If your not going to play new faces in games like this when are you going to play them? Not much point going over to Turkey for a week's training camp and a friendly to name 8 or 9 regulars in the starting 11

Only way we going to know if these lads are ready is if we play them and oneil needs to start doing so in the friendlies (it's not like the usual starting 11 have been doing great in the friendlies last few years anyway)

I don't think should start 8 or 9 new faces but definitely room for between 4 to 6 new faces to start and get a good 50/60 minutes
Because if we do this nobody will lead anything. Can anybody tell me what we learned from Portugal or Mexico?

Why are the 2 worst examples being used when O'Neill reverted to an all out attack 4 up front  and only 2 in midfield formation in the 2nd half in both matches.

I'm glad you remember those 2 matches because it's the only times where O'Neill wanted to attack teams, even if it was kamikaze and completely overzealous. We were tragic at it but atleast we were entertaining to watch tragic LOL


Edited by coyne - 05 Mar 2018 at 12:30pm
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Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:


Making that many subs will completely defeat the purpose. Also, well Doherty started out as a left- back, he has made his case for selection on the opposite side and should really be given his chance there. I also feel that MON doesn't like him.


Fair point on Doherty. It would be a shame if there was a personal issue which interfered with him getting into the team. He has been very well regarded this term, and on merit should be in front of Christie at the moment.
I agree. I'm not sure if it is a personal issue, whether MON just doesn't see him as his type of player or, and this is just my own gut instinct, that the player himself isn't overly excited by international football.
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Originally posted by coyne coyne wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by ringerbell ringerbell wrote:

Originally posted by garretjoseph garretjoseph wrote:

I’m all for bringing in new blood but playing a lot of players together
for the first time on the road could get ugly fast... think 0-6 or 1-5
After what the Danes did to us do we really want another hammering?



If your not going to play new faces in games like this when are you going to play them? Not much point going over to Turkey for a week's training camp and a friendly to name 8 or 9 regulars in the starting 11

Only way we going to know if these lads are ready is if we play them and oneil needs to start doing so in the friendlies (it's not like the usual starting 11 have been doing great in the friendlies last few years anyway)

I don't think should start 8 or 9 new faces but definitely room for between 4 to 6 new faces to start and get a good 50/60 minutes
Because if we do this nobody will lead anything. Can anybody tell me what we learned from Portugal or Mexico?

Why are the 2 worst examples being used when O'Neill reverted to an all out attack 4 up front  and only 2 in midfield formation in the 2nd half in both matches.

I'm glad you remember those 2 matches because it's the only times where O'Neill wanted to attack teams, even if it was kamikaze and completely overzealous. We were tragic at it but atleast we were entertaining to watch tragic LOL
Genuinely not being smart here, but I have read this a few times now and I haven't a notion what it is about!
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In other words, you're talking sh*te cos you don't have an answer. Thumbs Up

Glad we've cleared that up.
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