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Holland v Ireland

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Kevin Kilbane
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    Posted: 20 Nov 2023 at 3:17pm
Originally posted by You Tell Me You Tell Me wrote:

We have almost always had Championship players in our team, including in our teams that played at the 2002 World Cup and the 2012 and 2016 Euros.

There's nothing wrong with having a core group of solid Championship players as long as there is a sprinkling of Premier League (or equivalent) quality alongside them. At the moment I'd argue we have that in defence and attack, but not midfield. But overall our squad compares reasonably to most small European nations. There's no justification for us to be playing as badly as we are.

Almost sounds like there is a case to be made for bypassing midfield...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote You Tell Me Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2023 at 3:00pm
We have almost always had Championship players in our team, including in our teams that played at the 2002 World Cup and the 2012 and 2016 Euros.

There's nothing wrong with having a core group of solid Championship players as long as there is a sprinkling of Premier League (or equivalent) quality alongside them. At the moment I'd argue we have that in defence and attack, but not midfield. But overall our squad compares reasonably to most small European nations. There's no justification for us to be playing as badly as we are.


Edited by You Tell Me - 20 Nov 2023 at 3:01pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Badgersboys9 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2023 at 2:58pm
Yeah it just emphasises the importance of appointing Kennys successor. I agree that the Championship is a great standard and you can do a lot with Championship standard players as far as international teams. It's alright having good players, but you need a manager that knows how to utilise them. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Maccatacca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2023 at 2:42pm
The Championship is a good league. 

The Leicester City squad would walk qualification to the Euros in every group except our own. I'd go as far as to say that they'd have no issues getting out of the group at the final tournament.

Take a look at the most recent Hungary starting XI that finished top of their group ahead of star-studded Serbia.

3-4-3

Dibusz (Hungarian Premier Division)

Lang (Cypriot Premier Division) - Szalai (German Premier Division) - Balogh (Italian Second Division)
Nagy (Hungarian Premier Division) - Nagy (Italian Second Division) - Styles (English Third Division) - Bolla (Swiss Premier Division)

Szoboszlai (English Premier Division) - Gazdag (MLS)

Ádám (South Korean Premier League)

You don't need top players playing in top leagues to build a good team.

How many of those lads get into our starting eleven, or even into our squad? If we were to play them tomorrow, I'd expect them to beat us home and away comfortably, because they clearly have a good coach who has made them into a good team.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bukowski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2023 at 2:33pm
Every single one of our players, at this current time, are Championship standard players bar Ferguson and arguably Collins. Ogbene is having a good season regardless of Luton results but the jury is still out whether he can make it at that level. Cullen & O'Shea are good Championship players but not PL standard yet, imo.

I don't see Cullen having a career in the Premiership. Burnley will likely be relegated this season.
Is Collins better than Championship? He has been off the pace anytime I've seen him this year, but I have also read reports of him having good games, so maybe he'll develop some consistency. I think his ego got a bit ahead of him - "leadership group" and so on.
Knight is the big disappointment for me. He looked like he had the energy and irrepressible attitude to apply himself, but hasn't finessed that energy into much, and it looks like it won't happen now at his age.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roberto Baggio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2023 at 2:29pm
Originally posted by Badgersboys9 Badgersboys9 wrote:

Originally posted by Roberto Baggio Roberto Baggio wrote:

Originally posted by Conan Conan wrote:

Knight has been bang ordinary this season at BS, same as he was last season at Derby. Can't seeing him ever becoming a Premier league standard player. 

Another player built up way more than he should have been on here over the years.
Every single one of our players, at this current time, are Championship standard players bar Ferguson and arguably Collins. Ogbene is having a good season regardless of Luton results but the jury is still out whether he can make it at that level. Cullen & O'Shea are good Championship players but not PL standard yet, imo. 

Even if they were PL standard, its no guarantee that they'd be able to come into the Ireland team and improve us much. 
The sad fact is that most average nations have plenty of players at the same standard or better than the likes of Cullen, Knight, Omabomidele, Collins, Ogbene etc 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote johnvonp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2023 at 2:27pm
Originally posted by Badgersboys9 Badgersboys9 wrote:

Originally posted by Roberto Baggio Roberto Baggio wrote:

Originally posted by Conan Conan wrote:

Knight has been bang ordinary this season at BS, same as he was last season at Derby. Can't seeing him ever becoming a Premier league standard player. 

Another player built up way more than he should have been on here over the years.
Every single one of our players, at this current time, are Championship standard players bar Ferguson and arguably Collins. Ogbene is having a good season regardless of Luton results but the jury is still out whether he can make it at that level. Cullen & O'Shea are good Championship players but not PL standard yet, imo. 

Agree that most players are Championship quality but if this Ireland squad were competing in the Championship, you'd think that they would be top 6 at least, if not competing for one of the top 2 spots (if managed/coached well)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote King_Kenny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2023 at 2:24pm
Originally posted by Roberto Baggio Roberto Baggio wrote:

Originally posted by Conan Conan wrote:

Knight has been bang ordinary this season at BS, same as he was last season at Derby. Can't seeing him ever becoming a Premier league standard player. 

Another player built up way more than he should have been on here over the years. 


The ball is certainly not his friend.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Badgersboys9 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2023 at 2:17pm
Originally posted by Roberto Baggio Roberto Baggio wrote:

Originally posted by Conan Conan wrote:

Knight has been bang ordinary this season at BS, same as he was last season at Derby. Can't seeing him ever becoming a Premier league standard player. 

Another player built up way more than he should have been on here over the years.
Every single one of our players, at this current time, are Championship standard players bar Ferguson and arguably Collins. Ogbene is having a good season regardless of Luton results but the jury is still out whether he can make it at that level. Cullen & O'Shea are good Championship players but not PL standard yet, imo. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roberto Baggio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2023 at 11:19am
Originally posted by Conan Conan wrote:

Knight has been bang ordinary this season at BS, same as he was last season at Derby. Can't seeing him ever becoming a Premier league standard player. 

Another player built up way more than he should have been on here over the years. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Conan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2023 at 1:08am
Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Originally posted by Conan Conan wrote:

Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Originally posted by Conan Conan wrote:

Knight has been bang ordinary this season at BS, same as he was last season at Derby. Can't seeing him ever becoming a Premier league standard player. 

Well that's horsesh*t, he's been a stand out player for them. The fams love him, a lot of them think he's an upgrade on Scott who he's replaced.


Nice one, so in other words you've completely guessed as to his form and surprise surprise you've got it wrong. Bristol City fans adore him, you're talking out of your posterior Clown
Nope I've based it on objective facts and reports from professional journos and my own observations. Which I'd probably prioritise over a notoriously biased and deluded forum poster's claims on the opinions of some random football fans on twitter. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The O'Shea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2023 at 12:22am
Originally posted by Conan Conan wrote:

Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Originally posted by Conan Conan wrote:

Knight has been bang ordinary this season at BS, same as he was last season at Derby. Can't seeing him ever becoming a Premier league standard player. 

Well that's horsesh*t, he's been a stand out player for them. The fams love him, a lot of them think he's an upgrade on Scott who he's replaced.
In green tinted O'Shea world perhaps he's a stand out player. In actual empirical reality he's bang ordinary. 15 Championship matches for City zero goals, one assist. On Whoscored he is rated their 13th best player....worst of any regular starter. 
Some fans will like him because he works hard,gets stuck in and runs around a lot, which is all they want to see from a player. That doesn't help you win matches at international level though.
Scott was in the PFA team of the year for the championship last season. I bet you a trillion euros Knight will not be nominated for that team!

Nice one, so in other words you've completely guessed as to his form and surprise surprise you've got it wrong. Bristol City fans adore him, you're talking out of your posterior Clown
We're decent enough..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The O'Shea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2023 at 12:20am
Originally posted by JUICEBOMB JUICEBOMB wrote:

Maybe he’s a standout player at Bristol because he’s found his level….at international level he’s limited.danny blind read him like a book on 3/4 occasions and knights passing was shocking.hes all for the cause and is industrious but the likes of him and Cullen,Collins are a huge part of the problem 

You don't even know DALEY Blind's name, so no surprise you're going on about him as if he's some jobber who got the better of Knight LOL This is a guy who's played for Man Utd, Ajax,and Bayern, has been a Champions League regular throughout his career, and has 103 caps for one of the best international sides in the world LOL But yeah, Knight must be hopeless because this incredibly decorated spoofer "read him like a book"... This place Embarrassed
We're decent enough..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Conan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2023 at 11:51pm
Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Originally posted by Conan Conan wrote:

Knight has been bang ordinary this season at BS, same as he was last season at Derby. Can't seeing him ever becoming a Premier league standard player. 

Well that's horsesh*t, he's been a stand out player for them. The fams love him, a lot of them think he's an upgrade on Scott who he's replaced.
In green tinted O'Shea world perhaps he's a stand out player. In actual empirical reality he's bang ordinary. 15 Championship matches for City zero goals, one assist. On Whoscored he is rated their 13th best player....worst of any regular starter. 
Some fans will like him because he works hard,gets stuck in and runs around a lot, which is all they want to see from a player. That doesn't help you win matches at international level though.
Scott was in the PFA team of the year for the championship last season. I bet you a trillion euros Knight will not be nominated for that team!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JUICEBOMB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2023 at 11:38pm
Maybe he’s a standout player at Bristol because he’s found his level….at international level he’s limited.danny blind read him like a book on 3/4 occasions and knights passing was shocking.hes all for the cause and is industrious but the likes of him and Cullen,Collins are a huge part of the problem 
hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BabbsBalls Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2023 at 10:15pm
Originally posted by horsebox horsebox wrote:

Dara O'Shea was woeful.

I'm probably the only one who thinks this but Jason Knight is a terrible player. Just a complete headless chicken with zero technical ability, just running around fouling and being anonymous.

Terrible, lifeless, pathetic performance last night.


He's so limited as a midfielder I'd play him at right back.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote King_Kenny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2023 at 8:00pm
Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Originally posted by Conan Conan wrote:

Knight has been bang ordinary this season at BS, same as he was last season at Derby. Can't seeing him ever becoming a Premier league standard player. 

Well that's horsesh*t, he's been a stand out player for them. The fams love him, a lot of them think he's an upgrade on Scott who he's replaced.
He’s dirt for Ireland. That’s what matters. Sure he runs around like a lunatic. To what effect?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The O'Shea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2023 at 7:42pm
Originally posted by Conan Conan wrote:

Knight has been bang ordinary this season at BS, same as he was last season at Derby. Can't seeing him ever becoming a Premier league standard player. 

Well that's horsesh*t, he's been a stand out player for them. The fams love him, a lot of them think he's an upgrade on Scott who he's replaced.


Edited by The O'Shea - 19 Nov 2023 at 7:42pm
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