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Are there any potential expansion teams?

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    Posted: 02 Dec 2019 at 4:05pm
While I like this idea in principal is it just not taking money away from the underage teams?
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https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/league-of-ireland/new-players-eye-role-in-league-of-ireland-38519140.html

"The next big meeting is planned for October 8, with more discussions on the size of the Premier Division planned.

Representatives of underage teams in Kerry, Cavan/Monaghan, Kildare, Carlow/Kilkenny and Mayo will be invited as there are hopes these areas might be interested in fielding senior teams in the future."

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote J89 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Aug 2018 at 12:13pm
Originally posted by AnCearrbhach AnCearrbhach wrote:

I don't think so, they already kicked back a few DDSL clubs from trying to join the underage leagues so they seem to at least be aware that we've reached Dublin saturation, arguably surpassed it. 

Because they only wanted in to the underage leagues. They also refused a clubs from Limerick, Tipperary and Cork from joining the underage leagues and told go partner up with your nearest senior team.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AnCearrbhach Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Aug 2018 at 11:59am
I don't think so, they already kicked back a few DDSL clubs from trying to join the underage leagues so they seem to at least be aware that we've reached Dublin saturation, arguably surpassed it. 
Aithníonn ciaróg ciaróg eile.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote J89 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Aug 2018 at 11:57am
Originally posted by AnCearrbhach AnCearrbhach wrote:

Originally posted by J89 J89 wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Then they shouldn't be allowed to join. City can afford two teams though, there would be more people at City's reserve games than any other first division team. Every time I used to go and watch Ramblers I recognised a lot of the crowd from the Cross. Play the games on a Sunday and they would pay their way.
Personally, I wouldn't like 'B' teams in the league proper. I would prefer the playoffs to be for clubs who want to progress though.

You say that now but if they don't win the league they don't get champions league football and their money for Europe drops quite a bit and if they don't sell on players like they did last season that's less money. There off field costs went up this season and to compete with Dundalk they'll need all funds focused on the senior team. 

What you need is to get the regional senior leagues into the LOI system as a third tier, in time and if the money within LOI improves you can add a new tier and stick it inbetween regional leagues and first Divison.

So you start off with:

Premier Divison  (tier 1)
#direct promotion/relegation and play-off between these tiers
First Divison  (tier 2)
#just a play-off between these tiers
Regional leagues (tier 3) (consists of Munster, Leinster, Ulster, Connaught)

New company is being set up in 2020 to run the league and after its first 3 years of being set up and they increase the money available for league of ireland clubs they can think about adding a fourth tier and set up like this.



Premier Divison  (tier 1)
#direct promotion/relegation and play-off between these tiers
First Divison  (tier 2)
#direct promotion/relegation and play-off between these tiers
Second Divison (tier 3)
#just a play-off between these tiers
Regional leagues (tier 4) (consists of Munster, Leinster, Ulster, Connaught)

The new second Divison (tier 3) can be made of teams who've played in the previous tier 3 (regional leagues) for the first 3 and want to progress up the leagues. Need to walk before you can run and if you tack another ten team league on and it goes bust you're back to square one which will happen if you don't have more money and clubs pull out to go back to their regional senior league.

I think you are over-estimating the level of interest that would be received from the Intermediate Leagues, if you populate Tier 3 with these teams you also have the same problem where all the teams are already in overpopulated LOI cachement areas. It also doesn't do much to serve the problem of players falling away after 19s or the desire of the top teams to have a B side. 

I think the best way to manage this to mandate that every side currently in the underage league has to put in a senior side. On top of this any Junior/Inter side which applies to join will gain access to the national underage leagues (a semi-decent geographical spread should be the target here not Tier 3 full of top DDSl clubs). Finally the opt-in B teams for clubs who wish to join. 

If you got 16 viable teams out of that bunch that would be an incredible start. Split then north/south and have a short season to begin with. Like with the A Championship no reserve side should be allowed promotion. Have a decent play off system with the winner playing the bottom side in the first Division. The long-term aim should be that 1.5 teams are relegated from the first annually. 

Which is what it's gonna be and imo I doubt there'll be a 3rd tier anyway .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AnCearrbhach Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Aug 2018 at 11:21am
Originally posted by J89 J89 wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Then they shouldn't be allowed to join. City can afford two teams though, there would be more people at City's reserve games than any other first division team. Every time I used to go and watch Ramblers I recognised a lot of the crowd from the Cross. Play the games on a Sunday and they would pay their way.
Personally, I wouldn't like 'B' teams in the league proper. I would prefer the playoffs to be for clubs who want to progress though.

You say that now but if they don't win the league they don't get champions league football and their money for Europe drops quite a bit and if they don't sell on players like they did last season that's less money. There off field costs went up this season and to compete with Dundalk they'll need all funds focused on the senior team. 

What you need is to get the regional senior leagues into the LOI system as a third tier, in time and if the money within LOI improves you can add a new tier and stick it inbetween regional leagues and first Divison.

So you start off with:

Premier Divison  (tier 1)
#direct promotion/relegation and play-off between these tiers
First Divison  (tier 2)
#just a play-off between these tiers
Regional leagues (tier 3) (consists of Munster, Leinster, Ulster, Connaught)

New company is being set up in 2020 to run the league and after its first 3 years of being set up and they increase the money available for league of ireland clubs they can think about adding a fourth tier and set up like this.



Premier Divison  (tier 1)
#direct promotion/relegation and play-off between these tiers
First Divison  (tier 2)
#direct promotion/relegation and play-off between these tiers
Second Divison (tier 3)
#just a play-off between these tiers
Regional leagues (tier 4) (consists of Munster, Leinster, Ulster, Connaught)

The new second Divison (tier 3) can be made of teams who've played in the previous tier 3 (regional leagues) for the first 3 and want to progress up the leagues. Need to walk before you can run and if you tack another ten team league on and it goes bust you're back to square one which will happen if you don't have more money and clubs pull out to go back to their regional senior league.

I think you are over-estimating the level of interest that would be received from the Intermediate Leagues, if you populate Tier 3 with these teams you also have the same problem where all the teams are already in overpopulated LOI cachement areas. It also doesn't do much to serve the problem of players falling away after 19s or the desire of the top teams to have a B side. 

I think the best way to manage this to mandate that every side currently in the underage league has to put in a senior side. On top of this any Junior/Inter side which applies to join will gain access to the national underage leagues (a semi-decent geographical spread should be the target here not Tier 3 full of top DDSl clubs). Finally the opt-in B teams for clubs who wish to join. 

If you got 16 viable teams out of that bunch that would be an incredible start. Split then north/south and have a short season to begin with. Like with the A Championship no reserve side should be allowed promotion. Have a decent play off system with the winner playing the bottom side in the first Division. The long-term aim should be that 1.5 teams are relegated from the first annually. 
Aithníonn ciaróg ciaróg eile.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CillDara Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Aug 2018 at 10:58am
Regional divisions would make the most sense but I can't see it happening as the likes of the LSL and MSL would never roll over and be replaced that easily. The only thing now is that maybe some of the major schoolboy clubs would be tempted to enter a national league if it gave them access to having teams in the national underage leagues.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote J89 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 2018 at 6:59pm
Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Then they shouldn't be allowed to join. City can afford two teams though, there would be more people at City's reserve games than any other first division team. Every time I used to go and watch Ramblers I recognised a lot of the crowd from the Cross. Play the games on a Sunday and they would pay their way.
Personally, I wouldn't like 'B' teams in the league proper. I would prefer the playoffs to be for clubs who want to progress though.

You say that now but if they don't win the league they don't get champions league football and their money for Europe drops quite a bit and if they don't sell on players like they did last season that's less money. There off field costs went up this season and to compete with Dundalk they'll need all funds focused on the senior team. 

What you need is to get the regional senior leagues into the LOI system as a third tier, in time and if the money within LOI improves you can add a new tier and stick it inbetween regional leagues and first Divison.

So you start off with:

Premier Divison  (tier 1)
#direct promotion/relegation and play-off between these tiers
First Divison  (tier 2)
#just a play-off between these tiers
Regional leagues (tier 3) (consists of Munster, Leinster, Ulster, Connaught)

New company is being set up in 2020 to run the league and after its first 3 years of being set up and they increase the money available for league of ireland clubs they can think about adding a fourth tier and set up like this.



Premier Divison  (tier 1)
#direct promotion/relegation and play-off between these tiers
First Divison  (tier 2)
#direct promotion/relegation and play-off between these tiers
Second Divison (tier 3)
#just a play-off between these tiers
Regional leagues (tier 4) (consists of Munster, Leinster, Ulster, Connaught)

The new second Divison (tier 3) can be made of teams who've played in the previous tier 3 (regional leagues) for the first 3 and want to progress up the leagues. Need to walk before you can run and if you tack another ten team league on and it goes bust you're back to square one which will happen if you don't have more money and clubs pull out to go back to their regional senior league.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 2018 at 6:14pm
Then they shouldn't be allowed to join. City can afford two teams though, there would be more people at City's reserve games than any other first division team. Every time I used to go and watch Ramblers I recognised a lot of the crowd from the Cross. Play the games on a Sunday and they would pay their way.
Personally, I wouldn't like 'B' teams in the league proper. I would prefer the playoffs to be for clubs who want to progress though.
Greed has won, big finance has won. Whatever small role elite clubs still play in the local communities from which they grew is dwarfed now by their position as global brands.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote J89 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 2018 at 5:53pm
Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

The incredibly high entrance fees should be used to help any promoted team bed in. Also, no team should be allowed entrance to this new division without an interest in accepting promotion.
A pyramid system is vital for Irish football, it must be implemented.

Hopefully every team that joins the league has ambition for promotion but you'll have some B teams in the league and what if Corks B team wins the league and enters the First Divison but pulls out mid season or at the end of the season because of the costs. If it was me the third tier would be made up of four regional leagues with the four winners playing off for the chance to play for a spot in the first Divison. Can barely keep some of the 20 clubs we have now in business so adding another league of ten teams in a carbon copy league with direct promotion will probably fail.

You're still putting a pyramid system in place just not with direct promotion from the new third tier into the second tier like they do in Scotland with the winners of the highland league and lowland playing off and the winner plays the team that finishes bottom of league 2 in Scotland.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 2018 at 4:59pm
The incredibly high entrance fees should be used to help any promoted team bed in. Also, no team should be allowed entrance to this new division without an interest in accepting promotion.
A pyramid system is vital for Irish football, it must be implemented.
Greed has won, big finance has won. Whatever small role elite clubs still play in the local communities from which they grew is dwarfed now by their position as global brands.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote J89 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 2018 at 4:10pm
Originally posted by nvidic nvidic wrote:

Originally posted by J89 J89 wrote:

Instead of being a carbon copy of the premier and first Divison by introducing a new 10 team third tier league it needs to be regionalised. Needs to be four regionalised leagues to keep the cost of travel down and need to make it financially viable for clubs ie. Can't be charging clubs affiliation fees or upping the cost of match officials otherwise clubs won't look to join and probably turn into an all Dublin league with Cork and Dundalk also in it.

So hopefully it's the first steps of having the regionalised senior leagues as the third tier and develop a proper pyrimad structure in Irish football.

Agree with that, four provincial winners could go into play offs to go up.

There's no way they'll get decent teams together if lads have to travel the country every two weeks for just expenses. Especially as you'd imagine it will be mainly regional teams filling the spots.

Think it will be more the winners of the play off will play off against the bottom first Divison club. Don't think they'll have direct promotion from the league incase you end up with someone like a B team from one of the premier teams or the likes of Kerry and Monaghan/Cavan win the league. Might even be someone like UCC if they win or UCD LSL team they might be able to afford the affiliation fees and higher match fees along with the added travel. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nvidic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 2018 at 12:50pm
Originally posted by J89 J89 wrote:

Instead of being a carbon copy of the premier and first Divison by introducing a new 10 team third tier league it needs to be regionalised. Needs to be four regionalised leagues to keep the cost of travel down and need to make it financially viable for clubs ie. Can't be charging clubs affiliation fees or upping the cost of match officials otherwise clubs won't look to join and probably turn into an all Dublin league with Cork and Dundalk also in it.

So hopefully it's the first steps of having the regionalised senior leagues as the third tier and develop a proper pyrimad structure in Irish football.

Agree with that, four provincial winners could go into play offs to go up.

There's no way they'll get decent teams together if lads have to travel the country every two weeks for just expenses. Especially as you'd imagine it will be mainly regional teams filling the spots.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote J89 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 2018 at 11:47am
Instead of being a carbon copy of the premier and first Divison by introducing a new 10 team third tier league it needs to be regionalised. Needs to be four regionalised leagues to keep the cost of travel down and need to make it financially viable for clubs ie. Can't be charging clubs affiliation fees or upping the cost of match officials otherwise clubs won't look to join and probably turn into an all Dublin league with Cork and Dundalk also in it.

So hopefully it's the first steps of having the regionalised senior leagues as the third tier and develop a proper pyrimad structure in Irish football.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote UCDFAN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 2018 at 11:31am
UCD AFC would definitely want a slice of that because we are a Football Club with Football Players. Regarding the A Championship, UCD are the most successful club winning it, losing the last one up at the old The Brandywell.

League of Ireland clubs despise integrated competitions tho', they hate them.
eg 1. LFA Leinster Senior Cup, first final 1892. LoI legend Jason Byrne intrinsically linked to the competition. But low, painful whining when the fixtures come around leading to procrastination of staging the rounds.

Eg 2 The FAI Senior Cup, first final in 1922, allowed to be described as "the oldest football competition in Ireland".
http://www.fai.ie/domestic/competitions/irish-daily-mail-fai-senior-cup . Ignoring Universities and Provincial competitions in IRL.
Exclusion of UCD Leinster Senior League side when eligible with on-the- field achievements.


Edited by UCDFAN - 21 Aug 2018 at 11:40am
www.ucdsupporters.ie
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CillDara Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 2018 at 11:27am
If it works out then yes it would be a great idea but are some of the top intermediate clubs going to risk everything by jumping from the top LSL division to go and join this new league that may or may not work out? The B teams should definitely be optional. I would imagine the likes of Monaghan/Cavan, Mayo, Kerry & Kilkenny/Carlow will be expected to join as they have sides in the underage leagues. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AnCearrbhach Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 2018 at 11:05am
Originally posted by adineen98 adineen98 wrote:

I can't say for sure but I think one of the issues with the A Championship was the number of B teams outnumbered the first teams. Having said that the A Championship was a great idea that wasn't given time to flourish. This time around I could only see the likes of City, Dundalk and Shamrock Rovers entering B teams as I can't imagine the Brays and Limericks of the league could afford a B team on top of their underage sides, but a way to get around that would be to loan players to a nearby club in this potential third tier. As for teams that would want to join, it would more than likely be the top intermediate sides and clubs that are known for producing talent who would like to hold onto their players a little while longer. 

If this does happen, it's a positive step, and hopefully the first step towards a pyramid system, and the FAI should be applauded for that.

In the A Championship B teams were mandatory for Premier teams and opt-in for First Div. This lead to teams fielding B teams that didn't want to and voting the division out in the end, losing a few potential expansion teams in the process. If the B teams were entirely opt-in then everybody should be happy. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote adineen98 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 2018 at 10:58am
I can't say for sure but I think one of the issues with the A Championship was the number of B teams outnumbered the first teams. Having said that the A Championship was a great idea that wasn't given time to flourish. This time around I could only see the likes of City, Dundalk and Shamrock Rovers entering B teams as I can't imagine the Brays and Limericks of the league could afford a B team on top of their underage sides, but a way to get around that would be to loan players to a nearby club in this potential third tier. As for teams that would want to join, it would more than likely be the top intermediate sides and clubs that are known for producing talent who would like to hold onto their players a little while longer. 

If this does happen, it's a positive step, and hopefully the first step towards a pyramid system, and the FAI should be applauded for that.
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