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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roberto Baggio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: NI Politics
    Posted: Yesterday at 12:58pm
Originally posted by zizu Kilbane zizu Kilbane wrote:

Originally posted by reddladd reddladd wrote:

When you see the killings at Ballymurphy, which was pretty much para's taking pot shots at civilians, it's odd that there has been so little about it in the media down the years compared to Bloody Sunday.

I am assuming it's because there were very few reporters etc because it was an event every bit as brutal as Bloody Sunday. 

The likes of the DUP etc can talk all they like about IRA violence and murders but no loyalist area suffered anything like a Ballymurphy at the hands of the army. Shocking stuff.  

 
I think this is the key point. Paramilitaries, by definition, operate outside of the law. They're illegal organisations for the most part.  National armies should always be held to a much higher standard. It doesn't matter what country they're from. (E.g. Israeli army at the moment, commiting horrible atrocities, but that's for another thread).

I think what we're finally seeing in the North is, all bar the unionist hardliners in the DUP and the Seamus Byrson cosplay extremist types, are coming to realise that. Think there has been some significant comments by Arlene Foster (surprise suprise now she's free of the cult ) and Doug Beattie (ex BA and probably the man who should soon be leader of the UUP). They are to be welcomed.

What's significant though is this hasn't raised so much as much blip in the UK media across water. The denial they stil have about their colonial history, even as recent as 50 years ago, is breath taking. If anything, as they've gone more right wing over the past decade, they've dug their heads further into the sand. 

For most in the UK, the only significant folk memory they have of their army is the 'good war' they fought from 1939-1945. (And to a lessor extent The Great War). That has shaped their opinion of every engagement their army has every fought in. Their knowledge beyond that i have found is almost non existent. In fact, my experience is that Irish people tend to be more aware of historical BA involvements in campaigns like the Nopoleotoc Wars, The Boer Wars, service in India etc through family historys (in the 18th and 19th centuries when we we proportionally over subscribed in the British Army)




It was the top story on BBC news at 10 last night, but on some other news channels it was well down the order, and many newspapers barely covered it
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zizu Kilbane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 12:06pm
Originally posted by reddladd reddladd wrote:

When you see the killings at Ballymurphy, which was pretty much para's taking pot shots at civilians, it's odd that there has been so little about it in the media down the years compared to Bloody Sunday.

I am assuming it's because there were very few reporters etc because it was an event every bit as brutal as Bloody Sunday. 

The likes of the DUP etc can talk all they like about IRA violence and murders but no loyalist area suffered anything like a Ballymurphy at the hands of the army. Shocking stuff.  

 
I think this is the key point. Paramilitaries, by definition, operate outside of the law. They're illegal organisations for the most part.  National armies should always be held to a much higher standard. It doesn't matter what country they're from. (E.g. Israeli army at the moment, commiting horrible atrocities, but that's for another thread).

I think what we're finally seeing in the North is, all bar the unionist hardliners in the DUP and the Seamus Byrson cosplay extremist types, are coming to realise that. Think there has been some significant comments by Arlene Foster (surprise suprise now she's free of the cult ) and Doug Beattie (ex BA and probably the man who should soon be leader of the UUP). They are to be welcomed.

What's significant though is this hasn't raised so much as much blip in the UK media across water. The denial they stil have about their colonial history, even as recent as 50 years ago, is breath taking. If anything, as they've gone more right wing over the past decade, they've dug their heads further into the sand. 

For most in the UK, the only significant folk memory they have of their army is the 'good war' they fought from 1939-1945. (And to a lessor extent The Great War). That has shaped their opinion of every engagement their army has every fought in. Their knowledge beyond that i have found is almost non existent. In fact, my experience is that Irish people tend to be more aware of historical BA involvements in campaigns like the Nopoleotoc Wars, The Boer Wars, service in India etc through family historys (in the 18th and 19th centuries when we we proportionally over subscribed in the British Army)


"Sometimes, sh*t happens, someone's gotta deal with it, and who ya gonna call?"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Borussia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 11:34am
Originally posted by Cabra Hoop Cabra Hoop wrote:

The vast majority of people in the south formed their opinions of "The Troubles" based on the state broadcasters reportage. Need I say more.

About half of the country would have had access to BBC NI also. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cabra Hoop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 11:27am
The vast majority of people in the south formed their opinions of "The Troubles" based on the state broadcasters reportage. Need I say more.
" BFC always gives me a laugh........ "
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horsebox Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 10:13am
Originally posted by Roberto Baggio Roberto Baggio wrote:

Is there much in the media in the south about Ballymurphy? Or are they only concerned with events in the north when there's the chance to get a pot shot at Sinn Fein (Jean McConville, Maria Cahill, Paul Quinn)



None.
Complete media blackout at the time. They've slowly started to report it now though.

Not many people in the South would have known about the massacre.

Doubt the Indo will be reporting about this.



     
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote reddladd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 10:11am
I think it was headline on 9pm news on RTE last night. They covered it with a report anyhow. 
I could agree with you but then we'd both be wrong.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roberto Baggio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 10:08am
Is there much in the media in the south about Ballymurphy? Or are they only concerned with events in the north when there's the chance to get a pot shot at Sinn Fein (Jean McConville, Maria Cahill, Paul Quinn)




Edited by Roberto Baggio - Yesterday at 10:09am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote reddladd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 10:06am
When you see the killings at Ballymurphy, which was pretty much para's taking pot shots at civilians, it's odd that there has been so little about it in the media down the years compared to Bloody Sunday.

I am assuming it's because there were very few reporters etc because it was an event every bit as brutal as Bloody Sunday. 

The likes of the DUP etc can talk all they like about IRA violence and murders but no loyalist area suffered anything like a Ballymurphy at the hands of the army. Shocking stuff.  
I could agree with you but then we'd both be wrong.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horsebox Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 8:39am
Originally posted by Jackal Jackal wrote:

Originally posted by Roberto Baggio Roberto Baggio wrote:

Originally posted by Jackal Jackal wrote:

Originally posted by horsebox horsebox wrote:

A step in the right direction.

The UK parliament is going to ban UK soldiers being tried for things like this.

It'll be an end to inquests of all kinds from the Troubles will it not, not just ones involving soldiers murdering civilians
Probably. Supposedly Sinn Fein proposed an amnesty for everyone involved back in 1998. I don't know how much support that had then or how much it has now. 

I don't believe that to be correct.

SF did manage to squeeze in the OTR's not to be prosecuted and  a release of all political prisoners (for both sides).
     
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jackal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 1:50am
Originally posted by Roberto Baggio Roberto Baggio wrote:

Originally posted by Jackal Jackal wrote:

Originally posted by horsebox horsebox wrote:

A step in the right direction.

The UK parliament is going to ban UK soldiers being tried for things like this.

It'll be an end to inquests of all kinds from the Troubles will it not, not just ones involving soldiers murdering civilians
Probably. Supposedly Sinn Fein proposed an amnesty for everyone involved back in 1998. I don't know how much support that had then or how much it has now. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roberto Baggio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2021 at 9:58pm
Originally posted by Jackal Jackal wrote:

Originally posted by horsebox horsebox wrote:

A step in the right direction.

The UK parliament is going to ban UK soldiers being tried for things like this.

It'll be an end to inquests of all kinds from the Troubles will it not, not just ones involving soldiers murdering civilians
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jackal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2021 at 7:04pm
Originally posted by horsebox horsebox wrote:

A step in the right direction.

The UK parliament is going to ban UK soldiers being tried for things like this.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horsebox Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2021 at 2:19pm
     
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Double Maxim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2021 at 8:28pm
Double Maxim without doubt the greatest drink in the world
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Double Maxim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 2021 at 9:04am
Double Maxim without doubt the greatest drink in the world
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Green Cockade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Feb 2021 at 5:19pm
Ain't happening. Just another dead cat thrown on the table to distract unionism from its latest tantrum over the sea border.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jackal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Feb 2021 at 4:49pm
They can't get a motorway or a normal train from Belfast to Derry but can build this, nonsense.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Martiponti Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Feb 2021 at 12:10pm
Instead of a bridge, there's talk of a tunnel between Larne and Stranraer.
Make's perfect sense really: there's already a hole at each end
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