You Boys in Green Homepage YBIG Shop
Forum Home Forum Home : League Of Ireland : Premier and First Division
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - reforming defunct clubs/LOI 1st Division
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login


reforming defunct clubs/LOI 1st Division

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 4>
Author
Message
savo01 View Drop Down
Liam Brady
Liam Brady
Avatar

Joined: 14 Feb 2013
Location: South Armagh
Status: Offline
Points: 1656
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote savo01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: reforming defunct clubs/LOI 1st Division
    Posted: 11 Jun 2013 at 3:33pm
Looking at the state of the LOI 1st Division with 8 teams is there no feasibility to get numbers up.  I know Galway are hopefully going to reform but surely one or two of the other defunct teams like Sporting Fingal, Kildare County and despite their problems Kilkenny City.  These are decent catchment areas and if the FAI could step in and run these clubs like the MLS do with some of the US teams it may give these clubs a chance to grow organically.  Typically with the FAI we had 3 divisions with the A Championship a few years ago but would it not be feasible to look into a Premier Division of 12 and two 10 team 1st Divisions, one north and one south.  This would keep cost and time down regarding transport.  With clubs like Fanad, Tralee, Tullamore, Castlebar Celtic, FC Carlow who were all in the A Championship and a few of the stronger LSL or other senior leagues in the country you could you get a good competition going.  From what I understand Wexford Youths are directly linked to youth football in the area.  Surely this is the way to go for every club and if you could restart or create new teams/leagues this would be the model to use. 
 
Or am I talking jibberish? 
Jackie Charlton, Eoin Hand
Johnny Giles. Ireland
Mick McCarthy, Stephen Staunton
Cascarino
Tony Galvin, Niall Quinn
Packie doesn't let em in
North of Ireland
South of Ireland
Only one can go
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
roverstillidie View Drop Down
Jack Charlton
Jack Charlton
Avatar
Bohs number 1 fan

Joined: 25 Jun 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 8536
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roverstillidie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2013 at 3:42pm
Well the FAI can't step in and run clubs, so that is that.
 
The problem with your logic, and it is generally fine, is that Carlow, Castlebar, Monaghan, Tralee etc are simply not big enough towns and catchement areas to sustain professional football. If there was a market for a LoI side in these towns, they would have one.

There were a number of regional clubs in the A Championship who ultimately bottled it when push came to the shove. While I can see why they did so, why go so far down the road and then change your mind? What a waste of the FAI's money that was.
 
The FAI can't make clubs step up. We would all love a pyramid, but the reality is most decent sized senior would prefer to be big fish in a small pond. Look what happened to Home Farm when they decided to go pro.
Back to Top
savo01 View Drop Down
Liam Brady
Liam Brady
Avatar

Joined: 14 Feb 2013
Location: South Armagh
Status: Offline
Points: 1656
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote savo01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2013 at 3:58pm
Chippy,
Would they have to be professional?  And by regionalising it you could keep costs down.  Having more clubs in my view would be to help grow football rather than creating a professional set up.  Look at the south east for instance.  If you had Wexford, Waterford, Tullamore, Carlow and Kilkenny in the same division surely that would generate interest in the game in the region.  Part of the GAA's success is that it plays on the parish/county rivalry.  Why can the FAI not run clubs, do UEFA not allow it?  They could surely be allowed to be partners then?  I'm not talking about these clubs being real contenders, the LOI has had a lifetime of boom and bust but there must be some way forward. 
Jackie Charlton, Eoin Hand
Johnny Giles. Ireland
Mick McCarthy, Stephen Staunton
Cascarino
Tony Galvin, Niall Quinn
Packie doesn't let em in
North of Ireland
South of Ireland
Only one can go
Back to Top
El Mullo View Drop Down
Ronnie Whelan
Ronnie Whelan


Joined: 22 May 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 59
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote El Mullo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2013 at 4:08pm

My opinion would be that a smaller number of viable and strong clubs would be better than new clubs. Of the current 20, several are struggling and are failing to make any impact in the league or in their community.

Kilkenny had a very small level of support and were effectively a one man club. Monaghan are working away at underage level, but it are unlikely to field (or be allowed to field) at senior LOI level for a number of seasons. Kildare gave the First Division a good shot for a number of seasons but never got a huge level of support or seemed to have a long-term structure in place. Sporting Fingal and Dublin City are gone forever.
 
GUST are working away in Galway to keep United alive, hopefully we will be back in 2014, if not the club will keep going anyway.
 
Back to Top
roverstillidie View Drop Down
Jack Charlton
Jack Charlton
Avatar
Bohs number 1 fan

Joined: 25 Jun 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 8536
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roverstillidie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2013 at 4:09pm
Originally posted by savo01 savo01 wrote:

Would they have to be professional?
 
 
Well it is a professional division. But yes, they could be amateur and get stomped every week.
 
Originally posted by savo01 savo01 wrote:

 And by regionalising it you could keep costs down.  Having more clubs in my view would be to help grow football rather than creating a professional set up. 
 
The clubs already exist... You want more clubs in the professional top two tiers, and that is a good idea. But the clubs don't want to be there.
 
 
Originally posted by savo01 savo01 wrote:

Look at the south east for instance.  If you had Wexford, Waterford, Tullamore, Carlow and Kilkenny in the same division surely that would generate interest in the game in the region. 
 
Having Rovers, Bohs, Shels, Pats and UCD in the same division doesn't have the Dubs flocking to games though, does it?
 
Wexford are a bit different in they are a top youth side whose adult side plays in the LoI, but Tullamore has a population of 11,000 and Carlow 13,000. This isn't enough to sustain a professional side - every town of that size bar Sligo (Thurles, Kilkenny, Newbridge, Monaghan etc) who have tried to make it in the LoI have wilted.
 
 
Originally posted by savo01 savo01 wrote:

Part of the GAA's success is that it plays on the parish/county rivalry. 
 
And very few of their teams get the punters required for LoI standard sustainability
 
Originally posted by savo01 savo01 wrote:

Why can the FAI not run clubs, do UEFA not allow it? 
 
Nope.
 
Originally posted by savo01 savo01 wrote:

 They could surely be allowed to be partners then?  I'm not talking about these clubs being real contenders, the LOI has had a lifetime of boom and bust but there must be some way forward. 
What does 'partners' mean? Who pays for it? Are Youths really expected to pay for a local rival side who can't get their act together alone?
 
You are thinking and have some ideas worth exploring, but the reality is the clubs aren't interested and we have all the geographical spread we are going to get.
 
Back to Top
Trapped View Drop Down
Roy Keane
Roy Keane
Avatar
Coat hangar expert

Joined: 04 Mar 2010
Location: El North Side
Status: Offline
Points: 10069
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trapped Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2013 at 4:10pm
Originally posted by savo01 savo01 wrote:

Chippy,
Would they have to be professional?  And by regionalising it you could keep costs down.  Having more clubs in my view would be to help grow football rather than creating a professional set up.  Look at the south east for instance.  If you had Wexford, Waterford, Tullamore, Carlow and Kilkenny in the same division surely that would generate interest in the game in the region.  Part of the GAA's success is that it plays on the parish/county rivalry.  Why can the FAI not run clubs, do UEFA not allow it?  They could surely be allowed to be partners then?  I'm not talking about these clubs being real contenders, the LOI has had a lifetime of boom and bust but there must be some way forward. 
 
Fella I used to play ball with also played with Tralee Dynamo's at the weekend. He said because they were always winning things the rest of the teams in Kerry hated them and if they went LOI they wouldn't have the support of anyone outside of their own club. Any of their potential supporters would see them as rivals as opposed to someone representing their area. A lot of rural teams would have the same problem with the exception of Carlow, Kilkenny and Monaghan whose teams would be named after their town and could be seen as representing their town/county.
 


Edited by Trapped - 11 Jun 2013 at 4:15pm
67% points to games ratio at the last Euro's (better than Portugal's)
Back to Top
El Mullo View Drop Down
Ronnie Whelan
Ronnie Whelan


Joined: 22 May 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 59
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote El Mullo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2013 at 4:13pm

Exactly Trapped, that is why the two Galway teams have little or no support. There could possibly be potential for a county team from one of the larger counties (Tipperary, Kerry, Meath, Mayo).

Back to Top
roverstillidie View Drop Down
Jack Charlton
Jack Charlton
Avatar
Bohs number 1 fan

Joined: 25 Jun 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 8536
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roverstillidie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2013 at 4:15pm
Originally posted by El Mullo El Mullo wrote:

My opinion would be that a smaller number of viable and strong clubs would be better than new clubs. Of the current 20, several are struggling and are failing to make any impact in the league or in their community.

Kilkenny had a very small level of support and were effectively a one man club. Monaghan are working away at underage level, but it are unlikely to field (or be allowed to field) at senior LOI level for a number of seasons. Kildare gave the First Division a good shot for a number of seasons but never got a huge level of support or seemed to have a long-term structure in place. Sporting Fingal and Dublin City are gone forever.
 
GUST are working away in Galway to keep United alive, hopefully we will be back in 2014, if not the club will keep going anyway.
 
I am of the opinion that the 'geographical spread' policy has failed. With the exception of Swords, there are no towns without a LoI club big enough to support one.
 
 
We will never have 40 pro and semi pro sides in Ireland. Why try and create them to fail later? 

The FAI should look at the cities IMO and if a Tralee, Castlebar or whoever come along, good for them. But no more wasting money on the regional teams. Galway back in, a second team in Cork, try and get Cliftonville, Belfast Celtic and Newry in.
 
Back to Top
savo01 View Drop Down
Liam Brady
Liam Brady
Avatar

Joined: 14 Feb 2013
Location: South Armagh
Status: Offline
Points: 1656
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote savo01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2013 at 4:34pm
Maybe not guys but Scotland has a 40 team set up with most part-time.  Ross County play out of Dingwall population 5,000.  Annan, Montrose, Stenhousemuir are all small places.  By having these clubs and divisions would it not give a chance to form roots in areas and provide links with local set ups?  No one is saying they would storm the Premier Division but it could create a decent structure in LOI football and not leave us with an abyss that is the 8 team 1st Division.  Right or wrong them being there Mervue and Salthill Devon must have done/do something right. 
Jackie Charlton, Eoin Hand
Johnny Giles. Ireland
Mick McCarthy, Stephen Staunton
Cascarino
Tony Galvin, Niall Quinn
Packie doesn't let em in
North of Ireland
South of Ireland
Only one can go
Back to Top
savo01 View Drop Down
Liam Brady
Liam Brady
Avatar

Joined: 14 Feb 2013
Location: South Armagh
Status: Offline
Points: 1656
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote savo01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2013 at 4:39pm
Chippy,
Interestingly Newry City went bust and have reformed in the Mid Ulster league while Warrenpoint a small town of 7,000 down the road 5 miles have just won promotion to the Irish league premier Division for the first time ever.  The club was formed in 1988, and for the first 22 years of its existence played at regional league level. After being crowned champions of the Mid-Ulster Football League Intermediate A division in the 2009–10 season they got promoted to Championship 1 the next year and beat Donegal Celtic to make it to the Premier League.  Surely this shows what can happen and be achieved.  The IFA Premier also has Ballinamallard United which has a population of under 2,000!  Why can the 6 counties have a proper structure in place yet the 26 counties cannot? 
Jackie Charlton, Eoin Hand
Johnny Giles. Ireland
Mick McCarthy, Stephen Staunton
Cascarino
Tony Galvin, Niall Quinn
Packie doesn't let em in
North of Ireland
South of Ireland
Only one can go
Back to Top
gazelle. View Drop Down
Kevin Kilbane
Kevin Kilbane
Avatar

Joined: 30 Jul 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 410
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gazelle. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2013 at 4:46pm
Originally posted by 'roverstilidie' 'roverstilidie' wrote:

but Tullamore has a population of 11,000 and Carlow 13,000. This isn't enough to sustain a professional side - every town of that size bar Sligo (Thurles, Kilkenny, Newbridge, Monaghan etc) who have tried to make it in the LoI have wilted.
Cobh have decent support and is a much smaller town than the likes of Carlow, Kilkenny and Thurles so it can be done. Athlone is another small town who survive in the LOI. Longford is another so you are wrong in that regard. It is possible for small town clubs to survive and compete in the LOI.
Back to Top
gazelle. View Drop Down
Kevin Kilbane
Kevin Kilbane
Avatar

Joined: 30 Jul 2012
Status: Offline
Points: 410
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gazelle. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2013 at 4:58pm

Originally posted by 'roverstilidie' 'roverstilidie' wrote:

With the exception of Swords, there are no towns without a LoI club big enough to support one.
I disagree, there a number of urban areas throughout the country similar or even bigger in size than Sligo, which has a population of 19,500. 

Navan - 28,500
Ennis - 25,300
Kilkenny - 24,400
Tralee - 23,600
Carlow - 23,000 
PortLaoise- 20,000
Mullingar - 20,000

That is just a few of them. Of these towns only Kilkenny have chanced their arm at LOI football. There is enough towns to support a decent number of LOI clubs. The regional policy hasn't been tried properly. 




Edited by gazelle. - 11 Jun 2013 at 5:00pm
Back to Top
El Mullo View Drop Down
Ronnie Whelan
Ronnie Whelan


Joined: 22 May 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 59
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote El Mullo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2013 at 4:59pm
Scotland is not a valid comparison. Football is well established there and is clearly the national game, with no serious competition (poor standard of rugby).
 
The Irish League is hardly a template for success - a village team, Ballinamallard, were in a Europa Cup position earlier in the season ! There are far too many teams in the Irish League structure.
Back to Top
El Mullo View Drop Down
Ronnie Whelan
Ronnie Whelan


Joined: 22 May 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 59
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote El Mullo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2013 at 5:05pm

There is a big difference between Longford, Athlone, Sligo, Drogheda, Dundalk (towns with an LOI tradition where going to matches is seen as a normal activity) versus Portlaoise, Tullamore, Mullingar, Ennis.

I was in Tullamore last year on a stag, wall to wall Premiership and GAA. It would be extremely difficult for anything other than a very successful LOI team to make an impact there.


Edited by El Mullo - 11 Jun 2013 at 5:06pm
Back to Top
roverstillidie View Drop Down
Jack Charlton
Jack Charlton
Avatar
Bohs number 1 fan

Joined: 25 Jun 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 8536
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roverstillidie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2013 at 5:38pm
Originally posted by gazelle. gazelle. wrote:

Cobh have decent support and is a much smaller town than the likes of Carlow, Kilkenny and Thurles so it can be done. Athlone is another small town who survive in the LOI. Longford is another so you are wrong in that regard. It is possible for small town clubs to survive and compete in the LOI.
 
You are dead right. Cobh who spend 5 of the last 6 years outside the LoI, Longford who nearly went bust and Athlone who were last in the PD in the 1995 and have not finished in the top half of the 1st since 2001.
 
Survive? Maybe. Compete? Not a hope.
Back to Top
roverstillidie View Drop Down
Jack Charlton
Jack Charlton
Avatar
Bohs number 1 fan

Joined: 25 Jun 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 8536
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roverstillidie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2013 at 5:40pm
Originally posted by gazelle. gazelle. wrote:


Originally posted by 'roverstilidie' 'roverstilidie' wrote:

With the exception of Swords, there are no towns without a LoI club big enough to support one.
I disagree, there a number of urban areas throughout the country similar or even bigger in size than Sligo, which has a population of 19,500. 

Navan - 28,500
Ennis - 25,300
Kilkenny - 24,400
Tralee - 23,600
Carlow - 23,000 
PortLaoise- 20,000
Mullingar - 20,000

That is just a few of them. Of these towns only Kilkenny have chanced their arm at LOI football. There is enough towns to support a decent number of LOI clubs. The regional policy hasn't been tried properly. 


How much more money were the FAI expected to throw at it. Clubs in these towns aren't interested. I would love to see teams in Ennis, Kilkenny and Tralee for the trips alone, but it ain't happening.

Sligo do exceptionally well to get what is in effect 12% of the town at games. You are making a lethal logical leap if you think PortLaoise could do the same.
Back to Top
EastStandMan View Drop Down
Liam Brady
Liam Brady

I am Shamrock Rovers

Joined: 11 Apr 2013
Location: D12 Hoop
Status: Offline
Points: 2301
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EastStandMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2013 at 5:41pm
Are we missing something here lads ?, great posts I got to say with Town populations etc giving an insight and opinion re our LOI health or other . Dont want to be a bully but for fecks sake - our little footie fans chose her majestys football league for their fix. Swear to feck, it kills me to think if we could only get a steady stream of full houses the stadiums would improve followed by adding more teams to the League .The game itself is good and would only improve with better quality players staying here cos there would be improved pay and conditions . Its all there waiting . I fear tho the same old attitude will prevail - dont speak the language cos it does me no good - dont vote cos that will do me no good - dont protest cos that will do me no good - wont get off me hole except to go get me a bag a cans . Sorry but thats the way I feel about ...........us Irish. Angry.
Shamrock Rovers - lovin the buzz .
Back to Top
Sham157 View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar
OAPs apply within xx

Joined: 17 Jul 2009
Location: Monaghan/Dublin
Status: Online
Points: 28460
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sham157 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2013 at 6:33pm
Trapped, we faced the same problems with the local clubs all around the county. For us to come back and survive with a decent crowd and sponsorship, we would need a set up almost identical to the GAA system of county boards. There was one pub in Monaghan where you would think twice about wearing mons gear in cos it was a Monaghan Town FC haunt. The attitude of clubs in the county and in particular the North Monaghan area was one disdain towards us. That coupled with the lazy and not to start an argument, but barstool mentality will ensure that we won't have a place in LOI football for the foreseeable. When we reached the EA Sports Cup Final a few seasons ago, only one club in the county approached us looking for an official if you like allocation from Mons.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 4>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.00
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.