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We’re not Brasil we’re Tuaisceart Éireann

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Jack Charlton
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Territorial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2017 at 4:50pm
Originally posted by irishmufc irishmufc wrote:

Is that not a sleight bit of cutting off your nose to spite your face, no?
No, maintaining progress in the campaign for FFA is not "cutting off" anything. Rather it is a simple choice of which one of two benefits you prefer.

Originally posted by irishmufc irishmufc wrote:

I don't see how anyone can call themselves a supporter if they attach certain conditions to supporting their team.
It's not a case of setting "conditions" in return for my support. Rather it's that supporting a team is about more than merely winning matches.

And as the whole atmosphere around supporting NI has improved drastically in recent years, so has my pleasure in supporting them - regardless of the results.

Originally posted by irishmufc irishmufc wrote:

I'm happy for my team to lose out on a possible easier route to a major tournament because they could be drawn against the ghastly Republic as opposed to Spain which would be more or less a certain playoff defeat.
It's not "the ghastly Republic" per se. Rather it's that playing such a game brings out the possibility (likelihood?) of serious trouble, antipathy and division etc, and I personally don't think even qualifying for a WC Finals is worth that.

And in any case, even if you set aside that principle, in practical terms any short term gain would likely be greatly outweighed in the long term by the future loss of players, goodwill and support from the Nationalist community in NI.

Originally posted by irishmufc irishmufc wrote:

Qualifying for a major tournament should override any potential fallout or negative press you get if your support damaged their reputation.
If it were merely "negative press" for a day or two, then I could cope with that.

But when the negative press is believed by uninformed people, then further distorted by malicious elements, it often takes a firm hold.

And that will have consequences, no matter how unfair.

Or as the saying goes: A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is still putting on its shoes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Territorial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2017 at 4:57pm
Originally posted by armahibee armahibee wrote:

  I'm not one for naming clubs for obvious reasons but all Il say is yeah he is from the area. As far as I know the Jamison's still run the social club and I'm sure your aware of the family history lol. I've being to a few games myself over the years and there is no hostility since the infamous Fenian scum out of mid ulster protest around 96. They have a few local Catholic lads in the side although as far as I'm aware to the Jamison's sponsor a Gaelic side from Mayo so. The galling thing is and why I mocked the football for all thing is that the young lad is a decent player and Is drawing attention from everton so you would think he would be seen as an asset to the club. however after a few incidents in the past being brought to light and being told it wouldnt happen again it's still happening by those related to the coaching set up in the club.
So what you're saying is that there's a problem at one particular club.

Fine, I've no reason to doubt your account.

But you might consider this. When you take the problem at that one club and ascribe it to ALL of football in NI, aren't you guilty of the same sort of prejudicial thinking as your nephew has experienced?

You know, the coach saying: "Them fenian footballers, they all the same, I don't want anything to do with them..." and your saying: "Them Prod clubs, they're all the same, you can't have anything to do with them..."


Edited by Territorial - 13 Jun 2017 at 5:01pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote armahibee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2017 at 5:05pm
Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Originally posted by armahibee armahibee wrote:

  I'm not one for naming clubs for obvious reasons but all Il say is yeah he is from the area. As far as I know the Jamison's still run the social club and I'm sure your aware of the family history lol. I've being to a few games myself over the years and there is no hostility since the infamous Fenian scum out of mid ulster protest around 96. They have a few local Catholic lads in the side although as far as I'm aware to the Jamison's sponsor a Gaelic side from Mayo so. The galling thing is and why I mocked the football for all thing is that the young lad is a decent player and Is drawing attention from everton so you would think he would be seen as an asset to the club. however after a few incidents in the past being brought to light and being told it wouldnt happen again it's still happening by those related to the coaching set up in the club.
So what you're saying is that there's a problem at one particular club.

Fine, I've no reason to doubt your account.

But you might consider this. When you take the problem at that one club and ascribe it to ALL of football in NI, aren't you guilty of the same sort of prejudicial thinking as your nephew has experienced?



No your right and I wouldn't doubt for a second it's not IFA policy, The problem being that I'm not outraged actually just disappointed. It would be nice to be able to get behind your local club.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote irishmufc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2017 at 6:06pm
Originally posted by Floreat Ultonia Floreat Ultonia wrote:

<p ="western" style="margin-bottom: 0cm">
Originally posted by OtOR OtOR wrote:

[in a
NI-RoI game]The football coming out of the pitch even more toxic than
the atmosphere in the stands


<p ="western" style="margin-bottom: 0cm">Any such competitive
game in the next year would be because we've both reached the
play-offs, or better. Likely knocking out the likes of Wales,
Czechia, Austria and Norway. Is their football worse than toxic?


<p ="western" style="margin-bottom: 0cm">
Originally posted by IrishMUFC IrishMUFC wrote:

[COLOR=#000000]<font style="font-size: 9pt]would
you really want to lessen your team's chances of success just because
you wanted to avoid us. Your wish to avoid us even at the cost of a
potentially more difficult tie seems to overshadow your own support
for your team. You're putting your own preference first over what's
best for your team. I'm sure Michael O'Neill would disagree on
that
[/COLOR]


<p ="western" style="margin-bottom: 0cm">Admittedly
I don't think we'll qualify and am relaxed about since we made it to
the Euros. That affects my attitude to the play-offs. Great if we
get there and win, but I rate public order as more important than a
notional football game. Unless you know MON personally I doubt you
have any idea what he thinks on the issue.



I don't need to know MON when simple logic applies. I'm sure he'd rather play some other team than us in the playoffs but I'd be shocked if he and the players wouldn't fancy taking on Ireland over a powerhouse like Italy as given the improvement with N.I. would make it more or less a 50/50 tie.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gspain Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2017 at 6:48pm
Originally posted by armahibee armahibee wrote:

Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Originally posted by armahibee armahibee wrote:

  I'm not one for naming clubs for obvious reasons but all Il say is yeah he is from the area. As far as I know the Jamison's still run the social club and I'm sure your aware of the family history lol. I've being to a few games myself over the years and there is no hostility since the infamous Fenian scum out of mid ulster protest around 96. They have a few local Catholic lads in the side although as far as I'm aware to the Jamison's sponsor a Gaelic side from Mayo so. The galling thing is and why I mocked the football for all thing is that the young lad is a decent player and Is drawing attention from everton so you would think he would be seen as an asset to the club. however after a few incidents in the past being brought to light and being told it wouldnt happen again it's still happening by those related to the coaching set up in the club.
So what you're saying is that there's a problem at one particular club.

Fine, I've no reason to doubt your account.

But you might consider this. When you take the problem at that one club and ascribe it to ALL of football in NI, aren't you guilty of the same sort of prejudicial thinking as your nephew has experienced?




No your right and I wouldn't doubt for a second it's not IFA policy, The problem being that I'm not outraged actually just disappointed. It would be nice to be able to get behind your local club.

Is it not more likely to be one coach at the club rather than club policy?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote irishmufc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2017 at 8:59pm
Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Originally posted by irishmufc irishmufc wrote:

Is that not a sleight bit of cutting off your nose to spite your face, no?
No, maintaining progress in the campaign for FFA is not "cutting off" anything. Rather it is a simple choice of which one of two benefits you prefer.

Originally posted by irishmufc irishmufc wrote:

I don't see how anyone can call themselves a supporter if they attach certain conditions to supporting their team.
It's not a case of setting "conditions" in return for my support. Rather it's that supporting a team is about more than merely winning matches.

And as the whole atmosphere around supporting NI has improved drastically in recent years, so has my pleasure in supporting them - regardless of the results.

Originally posted by irishmufc irishmufc wrote:

I'm
happy for my team to lose out on a possible easier route to a major
tournament because they could be drawn against the ghastly Republic as
opposed to Spain which would be more or less a certain playoff defeat.
It's not "the ghastly Republic" per se. Rather it's that playing such a game brings out the possibility (likelihood?) of serious trouble, antipathy and division etc, and I personally don't think even qualifying for a WC Finals is worth that.

And in any case, even if you set aside that principle, in practical terms any short term gain would likely be greatly outweighed in the long term by the future loss of players, goodwill and support from the Nationalist community in NI.

Originally posted by irishmufc irishmufc wrote:

Qualifying
for a major tournament should override any potential fallout or
negative press you get if your support damaged their reputation.
If it were merely "negative press" for a day or two, then I could cope with that.

But when the negative press is believed by uninformed people, then further distorted by malicious elements, it often takes a firm hold.

And that will have consequences, no matter how unfair.

Or as the saying goes: A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is still putting on its shoes.


I can understand yourself and Floreat being more wary of potential negative external factors from us drawing each other.
Again I don't want to be drawn against you lot but if the draw is boiling down to a more or less certain defeat against Italy or whoever, then there has to be a part of you like most N.I. supporters who'd reluctantly take us out of necessity.

Whatever about potential trouble with fans and media build up, both managers would be the perfect ones to have in charge to downplay things and publicly try and take the edge out if it as they have a good rapport with each other.

I don't see us beating Serbia so I think boh of us will be in the playoffs. I fancy us to get at least 2nd.
Wings? They're only the band The Beatles could have been.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Green Devil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2017 at 11:41pm
@Territorial, any possible new recruits being lined up/rumours circulating in the press up North about the odd English/Scottish born player possibly jumping ship to Northern Ireland? It was only around 14/15 months ago Washington linked up with your boys and he's proved himself to have been a very useful addition. 

It's all been rather quiet re Rep of Ireland on the granny rule front which is weird Stern SmileLOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Joe Stalin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2017 at 11:59pm
Am I right in thinking there's zero chance of us meeting in the playoff as neither of us as any hope of being seeded?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Floreat Ultonia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2017 at 8:14am
@Uncle Joe: no, I'm fairly sure you're mistaken. It's quite possible at least one of us could be seeded if we both make the play-offs. Say if the runners up also include Slovakia, Montenegro, Greece and Turkey.

@Green Devil: we had Leeds' u-21 keeper at the recent training camp?




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Double Maxim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jun 2017 at 9:46pm
 Jonny Evans getting linked to Leicester for £10m.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Territorial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jun 2017 at 3:04pm
Originally posted by Double Maxim Double Maxim wrote:

 Jonny Evans getting linked to Leicester for £10m.
WBA have told them where to, er, deposit their £10m.

If they're to get him, it will take double that.

At least.

Meanwhile, here's an interesting commentary on Evans and his true worth, esp the view of Ferguson:

Manchester United's decision to sell Evans left Ferguson stunned, reveals O'Neill

Northern Ireland manager Michael O'Neill has revealed that the legendary Sir Alex Ferguson was shocked by Louis van Gaal's decision to sell Jonny Evans from Manchester United to West Bromwich Albion.

O'Neill believes that the £6million fee that took Evans from Old Trafford to the Hawthorns was one of the bargains of the century and insists that the 29-year-old is now worth in excess of £20million, claiming that he is the best British defender in the Premier League.

Few Northern Ireland supporters would disagree having watched Evans develop under O'Neill, delivering world-class performances on the international stage.

Those displays, combined with his consistency at West Brom since moving there in 2015, led to Leicester City making a £10million bid for the defender recently. That was immediately turned down by the Baggies, who would demand double that figure to consider parting with one of their prized assets.

Indeed, West Brom are so keen to keep Evans that they are set to offer him a new £100,000 per week deal and make him club captain.

Had Ferguson still been boss at Old Trafford, Evans may have been skippering United today. The iconic Scot rated the Northern Ireland ace highly and after bringing him through the ranks at the club saw Evans as the natural successor to Rio Ferdinand and Nemanja Vidic in the heart of the defence.

O'Neill revealed: "In September after last year's Euros, there was a conference in France for the coaches and Sir Alex was there talking about it and he openly said to me that he could not believe Van Gaal had sold Jonny from United because having seen him come through, he felt Jonny would spend his whole career at United or certainly to the latter stages of his career.

"I think there were a lot of factors why he ended up at West Brom. In the previous two years he had an injury and at Manchester United they had Ferdinand and Vidic and then Jonny and there was a succession plan that didn't happen because of the change in manager.

"At that time he was on the radar of other big clubs. I know that for a fact but they possibly had reservations about him because of the injuries he had and because he maybe hadn't played as much in the previous 18 months. That was just unfortunate."

On the value of Evans, O'Neill paid the West Brom man a huge compliment.

"When I look around the Premier League and see British centre-backs, I don't see anyone better," stated the Northern Ireland boss.

"I look at Gary Cahill at Chelsea and Chris Smalling at Manchester United and Jonny Evans is every bit as good as them.

"His move away from Manchester United to West Brom was maybe the right thing for him at that stage in his career but he is a player who I believe can play right at the top of the Premier League.

"He was an absolute bargain at £6million which I believe West Brom paid for him and if you are asking me is he worth £20million, I think he is a bargain at that price."

Given that people are talking about Southampton's Virgil Van Dijk as a £50million player, that makes Jonny Evans sound cheap at £20million. If he goes to Leicester I think it is a good move for him."



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote irishmufc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jun 2017 at 10:02am
Evan's best season for United was the 2011/2012 one where he stepped in for Vidic who missed the rest of the season after being injured against Basel (I think).

Best "British" Defender?

Away to fcuk outa that Michael.......though he might be the best Irish one
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Territorial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jun 2017 at 12:43pm
Originally posted by irishmufc irishmufc wrote:

Evan's best season for United was the 2011/2012 one where he stepped in for Vidic who missed the rest of the season after being injured against Basel (I think).

Best "British" Defender?

Away to fcuk outa that Michael.......though he might be the best Irish one
Are you contesting the view that he may be the best defender (CB, actually) from Eng/Scot/Wales/Ire, or the fact that he is "British"?

If it is the former, then who do you think is better?

And if it is the latter, I'm sorry to disappoint you, but I'd say Michael knows him rather better than you Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote irishmufc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jun 2017 at 2:38pm
Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Originally posted by irishmufc irishmufc wrote:

Evan's best season for United was the 2011/2012 one where he stepped in for Vidic who missed the rest of the season after being injured against Basel (I think).

Best "British" Defender?

Away to fcuk outa that Michael.......though he might be the best Irish one
Are you contesting the view that he may be the best defender (CB, actually) from Eng/Scot/Wales/Ire, or the fact that he is "British"?

If it is the former, then who do you think is better?

And if it is the latter, I'm sorry to disappoint you, but I'd say Michael knows him rather better than you Wink


Here fishy fishy

Michael O'Neill might know him better but He's Irish, along with you and Michael himself ;) and he's one of the best out of the current centre backs from Britain and Ireland.





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Floreat Ultonia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2017 at 11:10am
Just adding to Mucker's point: Evans was clearly well-regarded as a youngster, and he's been excellent for Albion (and NI) for the last few years. But in seven years at ManU he managed half the games just twice. Wouldn't you say he stayed there a year or two too long:

EPL games only

Albion

2016/17 30+1
2015/16 30

ManU

2014/15 12+2
20113/4 17
2012/13 21+2
2011/12 28+1
2010/11 11+2
2009/10 18
2008/09 16+1

Sunderland 

2007/08 15
2006/07 18

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gashley Grimes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2017 at 3:00pm
Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Originally posted by Double Maxim Double Maxim wrote:

 Jonny Evans getting linked to Leicester for £10m.
WBA have told them where to, er, deposit their £10m.

If they're to get him, it will take double that.

At least.

Meanwhile, here's an interesting commentary on Evans and his true worth, esp the view of Ferguson:

Manchester United's decision to sell Evans left Ferguson stunned, reveals O'Neill

Northern Ireland manager Michael O'Neill has revealed that the legendary Sir Alex Ferguson was shocked by Louis van Gaal's decision to sell Jonny Evans from Manchester United to West Bromwich Albion.

O'Neill believes that the £6million fee that took Evans from Old Trafford to the Hawthorns was one of the bargains of the century and insists that the 29-year-old is now worth in excess of £20million, claiming that he is the best British defender in the Premier League.

Few Northern Ireland supporters would disagree having watched Evans develop under O'Neill, delivering world-class performances on the international stage.

Those displays, combined with his consistency at West Brom since moving there in 2015, led to Leicester City making a £10million bid for the defender recently. That was immediately turned down by the Baggies, who would demand double that figure to consider parting with one of their prized assets.

Indeed, West Brom are so keen to keep Evans that they are set to offer him a new £100,000 per week deal and make him club captain.

Had Ferguson still been boss at Old Trafford, Evans may have been skippering United today. The iconic Scot rated the Northern Ireland ace highly and after bringing him through the ranks at the club saw Evans as the natural successor to Rio Ferdinand and Nemanja Vidic in the heart of the defence.

O'Neill revealed: "In September after last year's Euros, there was a conference in France for the coaches and Sir Alex was there talking about it and he openly said to me that he could not believe Van Gaal had sold Jonny from United because having seen him come through, he felt Jonny would spend his whole career at United or certainly to the latter stages of his career.

"I think there were a lot of factors why he ended up at West Brom. In the previous two years he had an injury and at Manchester United they had Ferdinand and Vidic and then Jonny and there was a succession plan that didn't happen because of the change in manager.

"At that time he was on the radar of other big clubs. I know that for a fact but they possibly had reservations about him because of the injuries he had and because he maybe hadn't played as much in the previous 18 months. That was just unfortunate."

On the value of Evans, O'Neill paid the West Brom man a huge compliment.

"When I look around the Premier League and see British centre-backs, I don't see anyone better," stated the Northern Ireland boss.

"I look at Gary Cahill at Chelsea and Chris Smalling at Manchester United and Jonny Evans is every bit as good as them.

"His move away from Manchester United to West Brom was maybe the right thing for him at that stage in his career but he is a player who I believe can play right at the top of the Premier League.

"He was an absolute bargain at £6million which I believe West Brom paid for him and if you are asking me is he worth £20million, I think he is a bargain at that price."

Given that people are talking about Southampton's Virgil Van Dijk as a £50million player, that makes Jonny Evans sound cheap at £20million. If he goes to Leicester I think it is a good move for him."



If 'Dick' Van Dijk is worth 60mil then Evans is worth 100mil and Paul McGrath dodgy knees and all would be worth a billion today - just ask Phil Babb.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2017 at 3:09pm
Originally posted by Gashley Grimes Gashley Grimes wrote:

Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

[QUOTE=Double Maxim]

If 'Dick' Van Dijk is worth 60mil then Evans is worth 100mil and Paul McGrath dodgy knees and all would be worth a billion today - just ask Phil Babb.
That isn't how it works though. One player's transfer fee has no correlation on any other player's transfer fee and, even if they were, I still doubt any professional football club for a 57 year old.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote irishmufc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2017 at 5:36pm
Originally posted by Floreat Ultonia Floreat Ultonia wrote:

Just adding to Mucker's point: Evans was clearly well-regarded as a youngster, and he's been excellent for Albion (and NI) for the last few years. But in seven years at ManU he managed half the games just twice. Wouldn't you say he stayed there a year or two too long:

EPL games only

Albion

2016/17 30+1
2015/16 30

ManU

2014/15 12+2
20113/4 17
2012/13 21+2
2011/12 28+1
2010/11 11+2
2009/10 18
2008/09 16+1

Sunderland 

2007/08 15
2006/07 18


Probably did I suppose, but it would've been interesting to see if Mourinho would've kept him had he came in before Van Gaal. 

Would McAuley stay on for another another campaign? I imagine he'll retire after this qualification campaign or after the word cup should ye qualify.
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