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Roy Keane
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote coyne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jul 2019 at 4:20pm
Hotly competitive Championship? He spent over 60 million LOL
It was like the equivalent of Celtic winning the SPL, or Bayern winning the Bundesliga, or Juve winning Serie A and he barely managed it.

First season back he got them over the line, just. 2nd season was ironically alot like Bruce's season at Sunderland - Poor overall (Bruce went 13 defeats in a row at 1 point) but alot sh*tter teams in the league meant he got a decent finish in the end. 


Edited by coyne - 17 Jul 2019 at 4:21pm
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Jack Charlton
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Het-field Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jul 2019 at 4:23pm
Originally posted by coyne coyne wrote:

Hotly competitive Championship? He spent over 60 million LOL
It was like the equivalent of Celtic winning the SPL, or Bayern winning the Bundesliga, or Juve winning Serie A and he barely managed it.

First season back he got them over the line, just. 2nd season was ironically alot like Bruce's season at Sunderland - Poor overall (Bruce went 13 defeats in a row at 1 point) but alot sh*tter teams in the league meant he got a decent finish in the end. 

Coyne, you’ve just made my point for me. Even with the expenditure that was a savage division to get out of. And a Top 10 finish is not to be sniffed at.
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Roy Keane
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote coyne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jul 2019 at 4:29pm
Talking sh*te on this occasion I'm afraid.

Newcastle weren't even in the automatics with 3 games left to play and needed a helping hand from the other teams' results to get into the situation they ended up in.

Even lost to Rotherham who set the an impressive record low points which will probably never ever be beaten. That's not league competitiveness, that's just being sh*te.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Het-field Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jul 2019 at 4:38pm
Originally posted by coyne coyne wrote:

Talking sh*te on this occasion I'm afraid.

Newcastle weren't even in the automatics with 3 games left to play and needed a helping hand from the other teams' results to get into the situation they ended up in.

Even lost to Rotherham who set the an impressive record low points which will probably never ever be beaten. That's not league competitiveness, that's just being sh*te.

Good teams lose to weak teams all the time. And you don’t win titles of any sort without a serious amount of quality and hard work commensurate with your level. Helping hands come in all forms, but they shouldn’t be used to footnote achievement. By my reckoning their points tally in 2017 would have had them promoted automatically each year since 2010, and champions on many occasions during the same period. I think only Leicester and Wolves got more points as Champions, with the likes of Norwich getting the same number.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote coyne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jul 2019 at 4:59pm
Leicester and Wolves did not have 60 million to spend.

A better comparison would be Newcastle’s 2 years under Hughton then Newcastle’s 2 years under Rafa -

Newcastle under Chris absolutely destroyed the Championship, got them nicely settled in the league destroying Sunderland 5-1 in the process then unfairly and controversially got sacked.

Rafa scraped the league by the skin of his teeth, got them over the line in the first season with more reassuring success in the 2nd season.

Chris had the better squad by miles but it doesn’t take away how poor Rafa was in the Championship season
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Territorial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jul 2019 at 5:10pm
Re Rafa at NUFC, you can look at his record a number of ways.

But the 55k Geordies who watched him closely over 3 seasons and 150+ games are/were all solidly behind him.

That must count for something.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Het-field Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jul 2019 at 5:23pm
Originally posted by coyne coyne wrote:

Leicester and Wolves did not have 60 million to spend.

A better comparison would be Newcastle’s 2 years under Hughton then Newcastle’s 2 years under Rafa -

Newcastle under Chris absolutely destroyed the Championship, got them nicely settled in the league destroying Sunderland 5-1 in the process then unfairly and controversially got sacked.

Rafa scraped the league by the skin of his teeth, got them over the line in the first season with more reassuring success in the 2nd season.

Chris had the better squad by miles but it doesn’t take away how poor Rafa was in the Championship season

Wolves spent quite a bit over two years before they were promoted. The real expenditure took place in the Premier League. But like I said, the points totals speak for themselves, and Newcastle’s in 2017 was one of the highest this decade, to the point they would always be promoted on their points total and generally would be champions, over the course of the decade.

Hughton did it better. I agree with that. But Rafa didn’t underachieve simply because he didn’t run away with the Championship. Some teams fall out of the PL and struggle in the Championship. They may not have run away with the division, but winning the Championship is an achievement under any circumstance. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jul 2019 at 5:25pm
Were they not the shortest odds of any second tier team ever before a ball was kicked?
Greed has won, big finance has won. Whatever small role elite clubs still play in the local communities from which they grew is dwarfed now by their position as global brands.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lassassinblanc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jul 2019 at 5:28pm
So poor he won the league. How did Sunderland do in the championship?

Also that 60 million was subsidised by 80m of outgoings so technically only 20m was spent.

Oh and in regards to not being in the automatic promotion places Newcastle weren't out of the top 2 (with same games played) since the 12th week


Also yes Hugthon probably did have a better team but that was more due to players not leaving and a young lad who'd go on to be sold a year later for 35m coming in. 

Rafa done a fantastic job the last 3 years. 

I've said before I'm not 100%  happy with Bruce but I'm willing to give him a chance 


Edited by lassassinblanc - 17 Jul 2019 at 5:36pm
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Roy Keane
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote coyne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jul 2019 at 5:34pm
Winning the Championship was bare minimum expectation. They were superior in everything, money, squad, infrastructure.

That season and the season after that is only a testament to how good of a job David Wagner did at Huddersfield and nothing else, getting them promoted without scoring a goal in the playoffs and to keep them up in the EPL the season after, and they sacked him eventually! Actual madness.

You probably want to stop mentioning Wolves however because of their dodgy links to Jorge Mendes, having a super-agent as part of your boardroom but not registered to the club which they did then, and they're still doing now is quite frankly cheating - The latest craic he's trying to convince Diego Costa to go over, like wtf man.

Originally posted by lassassinblanc lassassinblanc wrote:

So poor he won the league. How did Sunderland do in the championship?


I'm not sure how this part is relevant.

You sound obsessed. It doesn't make yourself look good so please stop it for your own sake.


Edited by coyne - 17 Jul 2019 at 5:36pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lassassinblanc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jul 2019 at 6:11pm
Originally posted by coyne coyne wrote:

Winning the Championship was bare minimum expectation. They were superior in everything, money, squad, infrastructure.

That season and the season after that is only a testament to how good of a job David Wagner did at Huddersfield and nothing else, getting them promoted without scoring a goal in the playoffs and to keep them up in the EPL the season after, and they sacked him eventually! Actual madness.

You probably want to stop mentioning Wolves however because of their dodgy links to Jorge Mendes, having a super-agent as part of your boardroom but not registered to the club which they did then, and they're still doing now is quite frankly cheating - The latest craic he's trying to convince Diego Costa to go over, like wtf man.

Originally posted by lassassinblanc lassassinblanc wrote:

So poor he won the league. How did Sunderland do in the championship?


I'm not sure how this part is relevant.

You sound obsessed. It doesn't make yourself look good so please stop it for your own sake.

It's relevant as bar the 6 teams who got promoted and relegated it was pretty much the same league. 

Yes I agree the expectation was to get promoted (as it probably was for Sunderland). Again Newcastle may have spent 60m they made 80m from transfers so again only buying with what they had. 

Infrastructure wise OK St James Park was probably the biggest stadium but its on record that Newcastle have a woeful training ground many clubs in championship had much better. This was one thing Rafa wanted to improve the most but it was overlooked. 

I agree that Huddersfield and Wagner overachieved he ran out of luck last season due to not investing in better players something Newcastle did reluctantly. Also Wagner resigned he wasn't sacked... Not officially anyway 

I also agree with the wolves view yes something dodgy going on there but they are showing ambition and have been rewarded for it. 

OK rant over 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Het-field Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jul 2019 at 9:22pm
Originally posted by coyne coyne wrote:

Winning the Championship was bare minimum expectation. They were superior in everything, money, squad, infrastructure.

That season and the season after that is only a testament to how good of a job David Wagner did at Huddersfield and nothing else, getting them promoted without scoring a goal in the playoffs and to keep them up in the EPL the season after, and they sacked him eventually! Actual madness.



It may be a bare minimum expectation, but of all the leagues in the world, I suspect I’d be least inclined to demand winning it as a bare minimum. I well remember West Ham’s three most recent years there. All of a sudden you become the big fish, and everybody raises their game against you. Even with greater infrastructure and money, that rarely translates into an easy win, and I think the number of teams that have fallen through the PL trapdoor recently and have not looked like returning is remarkable. Newcastle didn’t win it easily, but they got 94 points, and very little more could have been asked of them.
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Roy Keane
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote coyne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jul 2019 at 10:32pm
Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Originally posted by coyne coyne wrote:

Winning the Championship was bare minimum expectation. They were superior in everything, money, squad, infrastructure.

That season and the season after that is only a testament to how good of a job David Wagner did at Huddersfield and nothing else, getting them promoted without scoring a goal in the playoffs and to keep them up in the EPL the season after, and they sacked him eventually! Actual madness.



It may be a bare minimum expectation, but of all the leagues in the world, I suspect I’d be least inclined to demand winning it as a bare minimum. I well remember West Ham’s three most recent years there. All of a sudden you become the big fish, and everybody raises their game against you. Even with greater infrastructure and money, that rarely translates into an easy win, and I think the number of teams that have fallen through the PL trapdoor recently and have not looked like returning is remarkable. Newcastle didn’t win it easily, but they got 94 points, and very little more could have been asked of them.

Am I the only one confused about this sentence? West Ham went down and went straight back up, and that squad was nowhere near as good as either Newcastle side.

Some severe overestimation of the standard of the Championship going on here, generally when EPL teams go down and fail to re stabilise, it's generally down to off-field problems - Sunderland, Leeds, Blackburn and Blackpool are prime examples of this. If it's not that then the team in the EPL was just utter sh*te - I think Huddersfield might be falling into this category

The only problem Newcastle had was the fanbase war with Mike Ashley which both Hughton and Rafa managed to deflect away from the on-field stuff.

The Championship has seen 4 absolutely dominant sides in terms of quality; The Reading side with 106 points, the Sunderland side with 103 points, Chris Hughton's Newcastle with 102, and Rafa's who managed a measly 94.

And to make it worse there was some dreadful teams in the Championship that year - Rotherham with the lowest ever, Burton Albion in their debut season, Villa having an epic meltdown, Forest with an owner who was more interested in verbally attacking fans. And those are just examples as there was more!

It should of been a 100+ point season easy with what they had, so I agree with Brendan to an extent that Rafa was overrated was f**k.
He did a good job in the first season in the EPL keeping them up, he was alot more convincing in the 2nd season as he did it with games to spare but the Championship season? Below average.


Edited by coyne - 17 Jul 2019 at 10:43pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Het-field Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jul 2019 at 11:37pm
Originally posted by coyne coyne wrote:

Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Originally posted by coyne coyne wrote:

Winning the Championship was bare minimum expectation. They were superior in everything, money, squad, infrastructure.

That season and the season after that is only a testament to how good of a job David Wagner did at Huddersfield and nothing else, getting them promoted without scoring a goal in the playoffs and to keep them up in the EPL the season after, and they sacked him eventually! Actual madness.



It may be a bare minimum expectation, but of all the leagues in the world, I suspect I’d be least inclined to demand winning it as a bare minimum. I well remember West Ham’s three most recent years there. All of a sudden you become the big fish, and everybody raises their game against you. Even with greater infrastructure and money, that rarely translates into an easy win, and I think the number of teams that have fallen through the PL trapdoor recently and have not looked like returning is remarkable. Newcastle didn’t win it easily, but they got 94 points, and very little more could have been asked of them.

Am I the only one confused about this sentence? West Ham went down and went straight back up, and that squad was nowhere near as good as either Newcastle side.

Some severe overestimation of the standard of the Championship going on here, generally when EPL teams go down and fail to re stabilise, it's generally down to off-field problems - Sunderland, Leeds, Blackburn and Blackpool are prime examples of this. If it's not that then the team in the EPL was just utter sh*te - I think Huddersfield might be falling into this category

The only problem Newcastle had was the fanbase war with Mike Ashley which both Hughton and Rafa managed to deflect away from the on-field stuff.

The Championship has seen 4 absolutely dominant sides in terms of quality; The Reading side with 106 points, the Sunderland side with 103 points, Chris Hughton's Newcastle with 102, and Rafa's who managed a measly 94.

And to make it worse there was some dreadful teams in the Championship that year - Rotherham with the lowest ever, Burton Albion in their debut season, Villa having an epic meltdown, Forest with an owner who was more interested in verbally attacking fans. And those are just examples as there was more!

It should of been a 100+ point season easy with what they had, so I agree with Brendan to an extent that Rafa was overrated was f**k.
He did a good job in the first season in the EPL keeping them up, he was alot more convincing in the 2nd season as he did it with games to spare but the Championship season? Below average.

Nope, West Ham spent two seasons in Division 1 and then the Championship between 2003-2005. The 2011-2012 Championship squad was excellent on paper, it just struggled to make it count at various points which cost them. But ultimately the team made light work of getting to the play offs and getting promoted. Buy that team had a spine of Green, Reid, Tomkins, Noble, Nolan (the top scoring midfielder in the PL the previous year) and Cole, who were easily some of the best players in the Championship at the time. They also had Vaz Te who scored 12 goals in under 20 appearances after signing in May. That excludes war horses like Matty Taylor, George McCartney, Bouba Diop, Abdolaye Faye, John Carew, and Guy Demel, and the likes of David Bentley and Scott Parker who made brief, but useful cameos.

Yes, there have been better sides, but there are also teams who won the title with points totals in the 80s. Newcastle’s that term was relatively high. And not getting 100 points + can’t be seen as under achieving, as at that point it’s a pi***ng contest. The got an excellent points haul, and won the title. 

Also, there are weak teams in any division. Rotherham had a particularly rough time but that’s much ado about nothing. Ditto Villa in a tailspin. Fulham made excellent strides that term, Brentford were generally tough to beat, and the usual suspects like Derby were still there. I have always believed winning the championship to be a major ask, and he did it.
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Roy Keane
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote coyne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2019 at 6:07pm
Signed Joelinton for £36 million.

Mike Ashley the king of reverse psychological warfare


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lassassinblanc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Aug 2019 at 7:10pm
Two signings today

Allan Saint Maximin and Jetro Willems 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote coyne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 2019 at 2:27pm
Emil Krafth in Newcastle today for 5 million.

Signed for Amiens just a month ago for 1.8 million, some nice quick profiting there
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Roy Keane
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lassassinblanc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 2019 at 3:31pm
Originally posted by coyne coyne wrote:

Emil Krafth in Newcastle today for 5 million.

Signed for Amiens just a month ago for 1.8 million, some nice quick profiting there

Signed after being on loan at Amiens last season, 1.8m was an agreed fee between them and Bologna.

Haven't really heard much about him tbh but has 20 caps for Sweden so can't be that bad.

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