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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horsebox Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2018 at 5:40pm
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Good summary here - no doubt in my mind that these lads are going to walk.

     
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sid waddell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2018 at 5:53pm
Contradictions appear to be all on the defence side here.

Today's testimony is entirely consistent with the complainant's story and demolishes Jackson's. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gigibongi33 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2018 at 7:24pm
Originally posted by nvidic nvidic wrote:

Agree with most of that gf but not the last bit, girl had to leave her job and emigrate Ireland after sleeping with two munster players not that long ago to get away from it all.


said girl allegedly posted on her own FB the day after 'last night was the stuff dreams are made of'
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zizu Kilbane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2018 at 7:35pm
Originally posted by Gigibongi33 Gigibongi33 wrote:

Originally posted by nvidic nvidic wrote:

Agree with most of that gf but not the last bit, girl had to leave her job and emigrate Ireland after sleeping with two munster players not that long ago to get away from it all.


said girl allegedly posted on her own FB the day after 'last night was the stuff dreams are made of'


Yes night and day between the two incidents
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote flipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2018 at 9:16pm
Originally posted by greenforever greenforever wrote:

Originally posted by nvidic nvidic wrote:

Agree with most of that gf but not the last bit, girl had to leave her job and emigrate Ireland after sleeping with two munster players not that long ago to get away from it all.

Didn't hear that, i remember the incident in the Shelbourne?  Such double standards are sickening.

I still don;t see a girl making that sh*t up and been that strong to be interrogated by 4 different defence barristers if it wasn't true 

Double standards swing both ways. For instance, society couldn't care less about a man being harassed by a female boss. Also female teachers getting it on with young lads is not taken seriously at all, but when the genders reversed people literally look for blood. Then there's the whole fleshlight vs dildo chestnut.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DUBLIN DOC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2018 at 9:54pm
Originally posted by flipper flipper wrote:

Originally posted by greenforever greenforever wrote:

Originally posted by nvidic nvidic wrote:

Agree with most of that gf but not the last bit, girl had to leave her job and emigrate Ireland after sleeping with two munster players not that long ago to get away from it all.


Didn't hear that, i remember the incident in the Shelbourne?  Such double standards are sickening.

I still don;t see a girl making that sh*t up and been that strong to be interrogated by 4 different defence barristers if it wasn't true 


Double standards swing both ways. For instance, society couldn't care less about a man being harassed by a female boss. Also female teachers getting it on with young lads is not taken seriously at all, but when the genders reversed people literally look for blood. Then there's the whole fleshlight vs dildo chestnut.  
Are you a dildo man yourself flipper ?
When all is said and done there is nothing left to say or do
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote flipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2018 at 10:05pm
Originally posted by DUBLIN DOC DUBLIN DOC wrote:

Originally posted by flipper flipper wrote:

Originally posted by greenforever greenforever wrote:

Originally posted by nvidic nvidic wrote:

Agree with most of that gf but not the last bit, girl had to leave her job and emigrate Ireland after sleeping with two munster players not that long ago to get away from it all.


Didn't hear that, i remember the incident in the Shelbourne?  Such double standards are sickening.

I still don;t see a girl making that sh*t up and been that strong to be interrogated by 4 different defence barristers if it wasn't true 


Double standards swing both ways. For instance, society couldn't care less about a man being harassed by a female boss. Also female teachers getting it on with young lads is not taken seriously at all, but when the genders reversed people literally look for blood. Then there's the whole fleshlight vs dildo chestnut.  
Are you a dildo man yourself flipper ?

Yet to find one large enough. I use the flesh light inversely. Dry.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2018 at 10:10pm
LOL
Originally posted by DUBLIN DOC DUBLIN DOC wrote:

Originally posted by flipper flipper wrote:

Originally posted by greenforever greenforever wrote:

Originally posted by nvidic nvidic wrote:

Agree with most of that gf but not the last bit, girl had to leave her job and emigrate Ireland after sleeping with two munster players not that long ago to get away from it all.


Didn't hear that, i remember the incident in the Shelbourne?  Such double standards are sickening.

I still don;t see a girl making that sh*t up and been that strong to be interrogated by 4 different defence barristers if it wasn't true 


Double standards swing both ways. For instance, society couldn't care less about a man being harassed by a female boss. Also female teachers getting it on with young lads is not taken seriously at all, but when the genders reversed people literally look for blood. Then there's the whole fleshlight vs dildo chestnut.  
Are you a dildo man yourself flipper ?
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote greenforever Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2018 at 10:49pm
Originally posted by flipper flipper wrote:

Originally posted by greenforever greenforever wrote:

Originally posted by nvidic nvidic wrote:

Agree with most of that gf but not the last bit, girl had to leave her job and emigrate Ireland after sleeping with two munster players not that long ago to get away from it all.

Didn't hear that, i remember the incident in the Shelbourne?  Such double standards are sickening.

I still don;t see a girl making that sh*t up and been that strong to be interrogated by 4 different defence barristers if it wasn't true 

Double standards swing both ways. For instance, society couldn't care less about a man being harassed by a female boss. Also female teachers getting it on with young lads is not taken seriously at all, but when the genders reversed people literally look for blood. Then there's the whole fleshlight vs dildo chestnut.  

I know nothing :-)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TonyNotJack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Feb 2018 at 11:51pm
Originally posted by greenforever greenforever wrote:

Originally posted by flipper flipper wrote:

Originally posted by greenforever greenforever wrote:

Originally posted by nvidic nvidic wrote:

Agree with most of that gf but not the last bit, girl had to leave her job and emigrate Ireland after sleeping with two munster players not that long ago to get away from it all.

Didn't hear that, i remember the incident in the Shelbourne?  Such double standards are sickening.

I still don;t see a girl making that sh*t up and been that strong to be interrogated by 4 different defence barristers if it wasn't true 

Double standards swing both ways. For instance, society couldn't care less about a man being harassed by a female boss. Also female teachers getting it on with young lads is not taken seriously at all, but when the genders reversed people literally look for blood. Then there's the whole fleshlight vs dildo chestnut.  



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hans Moleman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 2018 at 12:18am
Originally posted by horsebox horsebox wrote:

https://twitter.com/FrankGreaney?lang=en

Good summary here - no doubt in my mind that these lads are going to walk.


It seems after the last couple of days evidence, that there is a lot of sentiment on here that these lads will walk. Reading through what was said, it's clear that the defense have done everything in their power to keep blurring the lines of what has gone on, as was always going to be their way. At the same time, almost everything the victim has said happened hasn't in any way been discredited. She has been rock solid in her account of the details. As a matter of fact the female witnesses today have nailed how credible the victims accounts were. The witness accounts also show that Jackson has blatantly and consistently lied to police and also the court in his statements, when he said he never had sexual intercourse with the girl. 

Key points from today

- Witness says she saw the victim on her knees, with Jackson penetrating her from behind. This is exactly the account the victim has given. It also blows every shred of credibility any statement Jackson makes out of the water. Jackson saying he only ever digitally penetrated her. Why would he possibly lie about this?

- The witness who crashed on the couch, asked Jackson about this 'threesome' the following morning. Again Jackson said nothing happened. Why did Jackson lie to her?

- In terms of Olding, again the victims account holds up perfectly. Olding claims that the woman was straddling Paddy Jackson and invited him in to give him oral sex. The witness account of the victim on her knees is exactly as the witness has said all along, with trousers around her knees making it impossible to straddle anyone. 

- The witness says she saw the victim turn her head away. Again this is exactly what the victim said happened when the witness walked in. 

- The defense has done a good job blurring the lines by asking a witness if Jackson or Olding were holding the victims head. A really good job of blurring the lines by asking the witness if the victim looked frozen with fear, and the witness responding no. This is great defense, but it's incredibly flimsy. They are basically getting a witness, standing at a door for a minute, to psychologically analyse what is going on in another girls head, and try and state it as some sort of fact! As if any of the above things would definitively mean that the victim was not being raped when the witness walked in. All these instances show is that the victims account is exactly as she always said it was. 

Talking purely hypothetically, if the witness had walked in and Jackson had said 'you wanna join in' as he did and the witness said no, and the victim said something like 'come on, join in, you'll love it,'. Or if the witness walked in and they stopped for a moment, and the victim moved over and took the iniative and mounted Jackson or Olding in front of her. Such instances as these would be clearly indicating that a consensual threesome was occurring. None of that actually happened though. Nothing even close to that happened, by either the witness accounts or the victim accounts of events. 

The prosecuting barrister did a good job cross examining imo, simply asking the witness if she saw any signs of the victim positively consenting. The witness said no. Huge amount of blurring of lines going on by the defense, it really is there only option it seems and it may well work.

TLDR - Jackson is shown up to have lied to the police after court after the witness statements today. His credibility is absolutely shot. The witness account of events does not contradict a single thing the victim has said all along about the events that took place.


Edited by Hans Moleman - 14 Feb 2018 at 12:20am
"I called him an embarrassment to FIFA and to himself," .... He said 'No-one speaks to me like that'.... and I said, "well I do' and that was that."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sid waddell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 2018 at 12:22am
Originally posted by Hans Moleman Hans Moleman wrote:

Originally posted by horsebox horsebox wrote:

https://twitter.com/FrankGreaney?lang=en

Good summary here - no doubt in my mind that these lads are going to walk.


It seems after the last couple of days evidence, that there is a lot of sentiment on here that these lads will walk. Reading through what was said, it's clear that the defense have done everything in their power to keep blurring the lines of what has gone on, as was always going to be their way. At the same time, almost everything the victim has said happened hasn't in any way been discredited. She has been rock solid in her account of the details. As a matter of fact the female witnesses today have nailed how credible the victims accounts were. The witness accounts also show that Jackson has blatantly and consistently lied to police and also the court in his statements, when he said he never had sexual intercourse with the girl. 

Key points from today

- Witness says she saw the victim on her knees, with Jackson penetrating her from behind. This is exactly the account the victim has given. It also blows every shred of credibility any statement Jackson makes out of the water. Jackson saying he only ever digitally penetrated her. Why would he possibly lie about this?

- The witness who crashed on the couch, asked Jackson about this 'threesome' the following morning. Again Jackson said nothing happened. Why did Jackson lie to her?

- In terms of Olding, again the victims account holds up perfectly. Olding claims that the woman was straddling Paddy Jackson and invited him in to give him oral sex. The witness account of the victim on her knees is exactly as the witness has said all along, with trousers around her knees making it impossible to straddle anyone. 

- The witness says she saw the victim turn her head away. Again this is exactly what the victim said happened when the witness walked in. 

- The defense has done a good job blurring the lines by asking a witness if Jackson or Olding were holding the victims head. A really good job of blurring the lies by asking the witness if the victim looked frozen with fear, and the witness responding no. This is great defense, but it's incredibly flimsy. They are basically getting a witness, standing at a door for a minute, to psychologically analyse what is going on in another girls head, and try and state it as some sort of fact! As if any of the above things would definitively mean that the victim was not being raped when the witness walked in. All these instances show is that the victims account is exactly as she always said it was. 

Talking purely hypothetically, if the witness had walked in and Jackson had said 'you wanna join in' as he did and the witness said no, and the victim said something like 'come on, join in, you'll love it,'. Or if the witness walked in and they stopped for a moment, and the victim moved over and took the iniative and mounted Jackson or Olding in front of her. Such instances as these would be clearly indicating that a consensual threesome was occurring. None of that actually happened though. Nothing even close to that happened, by either the witness accounts or the victim accounts of events. 

The prosecuting barrister did a good job cross examining imo, simply asking the witness if she saw any signs of the victim positively consenting. The witness said no. Huge amount of blurring of lines going on by the defense, it really is there only option it seems and it may well work.

TLDR - Jackson is shown up to have lied to the police after court after the witness statements today. His credibility is absolutely shot. The witness account of events does not contradict a single thing the victim has said all along about the events that took place.
A disastrous day for the defence. You really would wonder what reports some people are reading and their ability to comprehend testimony. 

It's pretty clear who's telling the truth and who's lying here.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SimonCox Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 2018 at 12:55am
Originally posted by sid waddell sid waddell wrote:

Originally posted by Hans Moleman Hans Moleman wrote:

Originally posted by horsebox horsebox wrote:

https://twitter.com/FrankGreaney?lang=en

Good summary here - no doubt in my mind that these lads are going to walk.


It seems after the last couple of days evidence, that there is a lot of sentiment on here that these lads will walk. Reading through what was said, it's clear that the defense have done everything in their power to keep blurring the lines of what has gone on, as was always going to be their way. At the same time, almost everything the victim has said happened hasn't in any way been discredited. She has been rock solid in her account of the details. As a matter of fact the female witnesses today have nailed how credible the victims accounts were. The witness accounts also show that Jackson has blatantly and consistently lied to police and also the court in his statements, when he said he never had sexual intercourse with the girl. 

Key points from today

- Witness says she saw the victim on her knees, with Jackson penetrating her from behind. This is exactly the account the victim has given. It also blows every shred of credibility any statement Jackson makes out of the water. Jackson saying he only ever digitally penetrated her. Why would he possibly lie about this?

- The witness who crashed on the couch, asked Jackson about this 'threesome' the following morning. Again Jackson said nothing happened. Why did Jackson lie to her?

- In terms of Olding, again the victims account holds up perfectly. Olding claims that the woman was straddling Paddy Jackson and invited him in to give him oral sex. The witness account of the victim on her knees is exactly as the witness has said all along, with trousers around her knees making it impossible to straddle anyone. 

- The witness says she saw the victim turn her head away. Again this is exactly what the victim said happened when the witness walked in. 

- The defense has done a good job blurring the lines by asking a witness if Jackson or Olding were holding the victims head. A really good job of blurring the lies by asking the witness if the victim looked frozen with fear, and the witness responding no. This is great defense, but it's incredibly flimsy. They are basically getting a witness, standing at a door for a minute, to psychologically analyse what is going on in another girls head, and try and state it as some sort of fact! As if any of the above things would definitively mean that the victim was not being raped when the witness walked in. All these instances show is that the victims account is exactly as she always said it was. 

Talking purely hypothetically, if the witness had walked in and Jackson had said 'you wanna join in' as he did and the witness said no, and the victim said something like 'come on, join in, you'll love it,'. Or if the witness walked in and they stopped for a moment, and the victim moved over and took the iniative and mounted Jackson or Olding in front of her. Such instances as these would be clearly indicating that a consensual threesome was occurring. None of that actually happened though. Nothing even close to that happened, by either the witness accounts or the victim accounts of events. 

The prosecuting barrister did a good job cross examining imo, simply asking the witness if she saw any signs of the victim positively consenting. The witness said no. Huge amount of blurring of lines going on by the defense, it really is there only option it seems and it may well work.

TLDR - Jackson is shown up to have lied to the police after court after the witness statements today. His credibility is absolutely shot. The witness account of events does not contradict a single thing the victim has said all along about the events that took place.
A disastrous day for the defence. You really would wonder what reports some people are reading and their ability to comprehend testimony. 

It's pretty clear who's telling the truth and who's lying here.

Spot on. Clear as day who isnt telling the truth. You can't get a bigger lie than denying sexual intercourse with a woman, only for a witness to say she saw it happen.
Even under heavy questioning, the complainant stood up to it all, and her story is consistent. Very impressive witness. All the lies are coming from the other side.
What's surprising is not that people here don't understand the testimony, its that they are sympathising with these men, and see the poor girl as being the liar.. Jackson's evidence was disastrous. I expected he'd say he had consensual sex. But he denied any sex outright. Dead men walking.


Edited by SimonCox - 14 Feb 2018 at 12:58am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Hans Moleman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 2018 at 1:06am
I do think that headlines such as RTEs today about 'Woman believed she witnessed threesome' play into all of that. Straight away people are thinking one way and one way only, and there's a serious bias when reading the statements made afterwards. Woeful stuff from our national broadcaster, but absolutely no surprise.

Agree totally about the victim. Extremely good witness. Has held up brilliantly in what could only be a horribly pressurised week of examination from numerous barristers. Today was a great day for her and the prosecution, no matter how headlines like RTEs try to spin otherwise.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roberto Baggio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 2018 at 9:57am

Some good points Moleman.

The headlines from yesterday splashed across the front of our morning papers read - Witness: I didn't see a rape, or I saw a threesome etc.
The main story to come out of yesterday IMO is that Jackson lied to police by saying he didn't have sex with the girl. This is the real headline from yesterday's witness statements and questioning in court.
 
 


Edited by Roberto Baggio - 14 Feb 2018 at 9:58am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Croftman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 2018 at 10:09am
Originally posted by Hans Moleman Hans Moleman wrote:

Originally posted by horsebox horsebox wrote:

https://twitter.com/FrankGreaney?lang=en

Good summary here - no doubt in my mind that these lads are going to walk.


It seems after the last couple of days evidence, that there is a lot of sentiment on here that these lads will walk. Reading through what was said, it's clear that the defense have done everything in their power to keep blurring the lines of what has gone on, as was always going to be their way. At the same time, almost everything the victim has said happened hasn't in any way been discredited. She has been rock solid in her account of the details. As a matter of fact the female witnesses today have nailed how credible the victims accounts were. The witness accounts also show that Jackson has blatantly and consistently lied to police and also the court in his statements, when he said he never had sexual intercourse with the girl. 

Key points from today

- Witness says she saw the victim on her knees, with Jackson penetrating her from behind. This is exactly the account the victim has given. It also blows every shred of credibility any statement Jackson makes out of the water. Jackson saying he only ever digitally penetrated her. Why would he possibly lie about this?

- The witness who crashed on the couch, asked Jackson about this 'threesome' the following morning. Again Jackson said nothing happened. Why did Jackson lie to her?

- In terms of Olding, again the victims account holds up perfectly. Olding claims that the woman was straddling Paddy Jackson and invited him in to give him oral sex. The witness account of the victim on her knees is exactly as the witness has said all along, with trousers around her knees making it impossible to straddle anyone. 

- The witness says she saw the victim turn her head away. Again this is exactly what the victim said happened when the witness walked in. 

- The defense has done a good job blurring the lines by asking a witness if Jackson or Olding were holding the victims head. A really good job of blurring the lines by asking the witness if the victim looked frozen with fear, and the witness responding no. This is great defense, but it's incredibly flimsy. They are basically getting a witness, standing at a door for a minute, to psychologically analyse what is going on in another girls head, and try and state it as some sort of fact! As if any of the above things would definitively mean that the victim was not being raped when the witness walked in. All these instances show is that the victims account is exactly as she always said it was. 

Talking purely hypothetically, if the witness had walked in and Jackson had said 'you wanna join in' as he did and the witness said no, and the victim said something like 'come on, join in, you'll love it,'. Or if the witness walked in and they stopped for a moment, and the victim moved over and took the iniative and mounted Jackson or Olding in front of her. Such instances as these would be clearly indicating that a consensual threesome was occurring. None of that actually happened though. Nothing even close to that happened, by either the witness accounts or the victim accounts of events. 

The prosecuting barrister did a good job cross examining imo, simply asking the witness if she saw any signs of the victim positively consenting. The witness said no. Huge amount of blurring of lines going on by the defense, it really is there only option it seems and it may well work.

TLDR - Jackson is shown up to have lied to the police after court after the witness statements today. His credibility is absolutely shot. The witness account of events does not contradict a single thing the victim has said all along about the events that took place.
Just 2 things on this Moleman:

- Am I right in saying the witness said she saw one of Jackson's hands on her hip but couldn't see the other one: he said he digitally penetrated her which he could've been doing with his unseen hand - I don't think the witness said she could actually see him having sex with her?
- About lying to the witness the next morning, surely that's common enough even if it was consensual?

Hard to know who's telling the truth about it all but yer one is putting herself through some life changing hardship which you wouldn't think she'd be doing if it was a lie

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roberto Baggio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 2018 at 10:10am
The witness said Jackson was "on his knees behind her thrusting into her"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote reddladd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Feb 2018 at 10:13am
Fair play to that girl for standing tall and not being phased by the defense barristers. It must feel like she is actually on trial.

Be interesting to see how her legal team go at the 3 boys.
I could agree with you but then we'd both be wrong.
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