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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baldrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Feb 2019 at 11:46pm
Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by doherty doherty wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Originally posted by doherty doherty wrote:

Originally posted by TonyNotJack TonyNotJack wrote:

It's time to bring in a relegation play off in the 6 nations. Italy couldn't even give the Welsh B team much of a match at home. Each season the 4 highest European teams in the world rankings, currently ; Georgia (ahead of Italy in the world rankings) Romania, Russia and Spain should play a mini tournament with the winner playing the bottom team in the 6 nations for a place in the next years championship.The big 5 will be afraid one of them might somehow finish bottom some year but if they do that and lose such a play off they deserve relegation. Plus who wouldn't enjoy seeing some D4 lads having to trek over to Tbilisi in the middle of winter.Smile
so basically replace one poor team with another. What would be the point in that.


You make that case for all relegation promotion scenarios.  Look at wolves this year. Georgia deserve a go at it 

Its nothing like other relegations. Do you think georgia are anywhere near the level of the other 5 nations. Eh no. So swapping them for italy just makes no real sense. Plus who the fcuk wants to travel to georgia for a nothing game. 
It is about whether the people who run rugby want the sport to grow or not. Italy are currently nowhere near the level and have had twenty years at it. Of course, their best team was in the years before they were allowed in, which shows the importance of letting teams compete when they are at their best. Romania in the late eighties were another side who could only play the big boys in tests and the enthusiasm for the game was dampened.
And if the Six Nations is just a tournament for weekend breaks then they shouldn't bother with the matches at all. Anyway, who would want to go to Dublin for anything! All they do is complain about the prices when they get home.

Exactly you need a meritocracy.  There is no incentive for Italy to improve as they feel they are so far behind they can remain last and take the money.  They can become considerably worse than Georgia and they will still remain in the competition. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TonyNotJack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Feb 2019 at 11:58pm
Originally posted by lassassinblanc lassassinblanc wrote:


There already is a tournament with those teams

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rugby_Europe_International_Championships

I see that.Georgia have won it 10 of the last 12 years.

Originally posted by doherty doherty wrote:

 so basically replace one poor team with another. What would be the point in that.

Italy have been terrible for at least the last 4 years.They look a bit demoralised after all the hammerings. Georgia wouldn't have all that baggage and would be more of a challenge in terms of location and weather for the bigger teams. Relegation would bring something fresh to the championship.

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:


It is about whether the people who run rugby want the sport to grow or not. Italy are currently nowhere near the level and have had twenty years at it. Of course, their best team was in the years before they were allowed in, which shows the importance of letting teams compete when they are at their best. Romania in the late eighties were another side who could only play the big boys in tests and the enthusiasm for the game was dampened.
And if the Six Nations is just a tournament for weekend breaks then they shouldn't bother with the matches at all. Anyway, who would want to go to Dublin for anything! All they do is complain about the prices when they get home.

LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Feb 2019 at 12:05am
Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by doherty doherty wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Originally posted by doherty doherty wrote:

Originally posted by TonyNotJack TonyNotJack wrote:

It's time to bring in a relegation play off in the 6 nations. Italy couldn't even give the Welsh B team much of a match at home. Each season the 4 highest European teams in the world rankings, currently ; Georgia (ahead of Italy in the world rankings) Romania, Russia and Spain should play a mini tournament with the winner playing the bottom team in the 6 nations for a place in the next years championship.The big 5 will be afraid one of them might somehow finish bottom some year but if they do that and lose such a play off they deserve relegation. Plus who wouldn't enjoy seeing some D4 lads having to trek over to Tbilisi in the middle of winter.Smile
so basically replace one poor team with another. What would be the point in that.


You make that case for all relegation promotion scenarios.  Look at wolves this year. Georgia deserve a go at it 

Its nothing like other relegations. Do you think georgia are anywhere near the level of the other 5 nations. Eh no. So swapping them for italy just makes no real sense. Plus who the fcuk wants to travel to georgia for a nothing game. 
It is about whether the people who run rugby want the sport to grow or not. Italy are currently nowhere near the level and have had twenty years at it. Of course, their best team was in the years before they were allowed in, which shows the importance of letting teams compete when they are at their best. Romania in the late eighties were another side who could only play the big boys in tests and the enthusiasm for the game was dampened.
And if the Six Nations is just a tournament for weekend breaks then they shouldn't bother with the matches at all. Anyway, who would want to go to Dublin for anything! All they do is complain about the prices when they get home.

Exactly you need a meritocracy.  There is no incentive for Italy to improve as they feel they are so far behind they can remain last and take the money.  They can become considerably worse than Georgia and they will still remain in the competition. 
Yeah, I mean even if Georgia were a 100 points off Italy, there has to be a means of progression for them. They have only lost one game in their championship in 6/7 years, maybe longer. Yet, if they lose every game in a season they will be relegated.

Anyway, the reason there isn't the possibility of promotion and relegation isn't to save a weekend in Rome, it is the fear of one of the other five might fall foul one year. It isn't long ago that Scotland were close to Italy's level and France are always capable of having a calamitous season. That is why it is ruled out. Italy are only being kept in to keep the numbers even, as well as the weekend in Rome.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baldrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Feb 2019 at 12:33am
Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by doherty doherty wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Originally posted by doherty doherty wrote:

Originally posted by TonyNotJack TonyNotJack wrote:

It's time to bring in a relegation play off in the 6 nations. Italy couldn't even give the Welsh B team much of a match at home. Each season the 4 highest European teams in the world rankings, currently ; Georgia (ahead of Italy in the world rankings) Romania, Russia and Spain should play a mini tournament with the winner playing the bottom team in the 6 nations for a place in the next years championship.The big 5 will be afraid one of them might somehow finish bottom some year but if they do that and lose such a play off they deserve relegation. Plus who wouldn't enjoy seeing some D4 lads having to trek over to Tbilisi in the middle of winter.Smile
so basically replace one poor team with another. What would be the point in that.


You make that case for all relegation promotion scenarios.  Look at wolves this year. Georgia deserve a go at it 

Its nothing like other relegations. Do you think georgia are anywhere near the level of the other 5 nations. Eh no. So swapping them for italy just makes no real sense. Plus who the fcuk wants to travel to georgia for a nothing game. 
It is about whether the people who run rugby want the sport to grow or not. Italy are currently nowhere near the level and have had twenty years at it. Of course, their best team was in the years before they were allowed in, which shows the importance of letting teams compete when they are at their best. Romania in the late eighties were another side who could only play the big boys in tests and the enthusiasm for the game was dampened.
And if the Six Nations is just a tournament for weekend breaks then they shouldn't bother with the matches at all. Anyway, who would want to go to Dublin for anything! All they do is complain about the prices when they get home.

Exactly you need a meritocracy.  There is no incentive for Italy to improve as they feel they are so far behind they can remain last and take the money.  They can become considerably worse than Georgia and they will still remain in the competition. 
Yeah, I mean even if Georgia were a 100 points off Italy, there has to be a means of progression for them. They have only lost one game in their championship in 6/7 years, maybe longer. Yet, if they lose every game in a season they will be relegated.

Anyway, the reason there isn't the possibility of promotion and relegation isn't to save a weekend in Rome, it is the fear of one of the other five might fall foul one year. It isn't long ago that Scotland were close to Italy's level and France are always capable of having a calamitous season. That is why it is ruled out. Italy are only being kept in to keep the numbers even, as well as the weekend in Rome.


Tell the truth the real reason is half the thick’s would end up in America thinking they could go to Augusta also to play golf 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote irishmufc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Feb 2019 at 1:16am
Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by irishmufc irishmufc wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Imagine living in a world where the BBC are paying Jamie Heaslip to speak! Or is it one of those  back to work schemes?
 

Funny thing is he seemed to have just slightly toned down his insufferable privilaged 'D4 loike' accent to his British tv audience.  But don't worry he replaced that annoyance by spouting No:671 of sport cliches in describing Rory Best's captaincy style as "putting an arm round your shoulder" after the England defeat Dead 


If you want someone to point out the obvious in a whiny, nasally voice then Heaslip is the man for the job. He is doing irreparable damage to the land of his birth internationally.

No harm so, seeing as he was born in Israel. LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Feb 2019 at 1:49am
Originally posted by irishmufc irishmufc wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by irishmufc irishmufc wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Imagine living in a world where the BBC are paying Jamie Heaslip to speak! Or is it one of those  back to work schemes?
 

Funny thing is he seemed to have just slightly toned down his insufferable privilaged 'D4 loike' accent to his British tv audience.  But don't worry he replaced that annoyance by spouting No:671 of sport cliches in describing Rory Best's captaincy style as "putting an arm round your shoulder" after the England defeat Dead 


If you want someone to point out the obvious in a whiny, nasally voice then Heaslip is the man for the job. He is doing irreparable damage to the land of his birth internationally.

No harm so, seeing as he was born in Israel. LOL

Greed has won, big finance has won. Whatever small role elite clubs still play in the local communities from which they grew is dwarfed now by their position as global brands.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TRV Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Feb 2019 at 10:17am
scrolling on the Rte site yesterday,  22 sections i counted on the rugby match yesterday,  all on the main page.  D4 Media indeed
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nvidic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Feb 2019 at 10:42am
Originally posted by TRV TRV wrote:

scrolling on the Rte site yesterday,  22 sections i counted on the rugby match yesterday,  all on the main page.  D4 Media indeed
 

And yet they let the rights lapse for it and showed the football yesterday 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BigStrongMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Feb 2019 at 10:58am
Tv3 showed highlights of Sean o briens excellence yesterday on their show. The first example they showed he pushes the other ladLOLLOLit was a sublime push to be fair,both hands as well. Kin ell
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DUBLIN DOC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Feb 2019 at 11:53am
So how many of you egg chasing lalas still think this team are going to do what they haven’t done before when they get to the World Cup?  How many places in the rankings can they slip to before the big tournament comes around ?, that was a worse performance than the English sh*tshow, really don’t know how Scotland fcked it away
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shedite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Feb 2019 at 12:06pm
Originally posted by TRV TRV wrote:

scrolling on the Rte site yesterday,  22 sections i counted on the rugby match yesterday,  all on the main page.  D4 Media indeed
eh, the RTE site uses cookies to show you the stories you're most likely to click on based on your history on the site. Click on a League of Ireland story one in a while and see what happens lad  LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TonyNotJack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Feb 2019 at 12:30pm
English rugby arrogance always goes from zero to 10 in the blink of an eye.

ex England player and Bristol coach Andy Robinson was the first guest on sports week on 5 live this morning.

First question : "So Andy are England now favourites to win the world  cup?"

Robinson : "Well I don't know about that but only New Zealand or England can win it" 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Feb 2019 at 3:27pm
Originally posted by TonyNotJack TonyNotJack wrote:

English rugby arrogance always goes from zero to 10 in the blink of an eye.

ex England player and Bristol coach Andy Robinson was the first guest on sports week on 5 live this morning.

First question : "So Andy are England now favourites to win the world  cup?"

Robinson : "Well I don't know about that but only New Zealand or England can win it" 
Still nowhere near Irish rugby arrogance!

England are going to cruise to a Grand Slam. They are peaking at the right time
Greed has won, big finance has won. Whatever small role elite clubs still play in the local communities from which they grew is dwarfed now by their position as global brands.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote doherty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Feb 2019 at 3:31pm
Ffs france are embarrasing. So bad its not even funny. No plan no structure. Look like they just met up 30 minutes ago. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Feb 2019 at 6:04pm
The Italians, as bad as they are, actually have a chance against the French, which is exactly why there isn't a  promotion play-off. France are capable of losing to anybody on the day, including Georgia. 
Greed has won, big finance has won. Whatever small role elite clubs still play in the local communities from which they grew is dwarfed now by their position as global brands.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Neil Armstrong Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2019 at 11:26am
Tony Ward Indo Clap

The global nature of the modern professional game has led to many positives for rugby, but also many negatives and the glut of inter-country transfers that we are witnessing nowadays is a blight on the sport.

A pre-match conversation with former Scotland and Lions No 8 Johnny Beattie in Edinburgh last weekend reinforced this view. Not that it is anything new to the Scots, any more than it would be to us, but Beattie pointed out that some 14 of the squad of 23 set for duty against Ireland by Gregor Townsend did not learn their rugby in Scotland.

Make of that what you will, but the bottom line is that this false patriotism (not in every case, I might add) is endemic in every nation in the northern hemisphere. To the best of my knowledge, it is not yet working in reverse, although there are splintered examples, with London-born full-back John Gallagher (of Irish parentage) central to the New Zealand World Cup-winning team of 1987.

I am sure there are others, but they are very few and far between as the southern hemisphere has been much more protective of the worth of home-produced players.

Just last week, we had football under the spotlight, given the mad-hatter situation of a three-times-capped senior international footballer Declan Rice declaring for England, the land of his birth, after representing Ireland at almost every underage level. No doubt there are financially-driven, agent-backed reasons for this switch now, but caps must be in FIFA competition before they really, really count. Have you ever heard such nonsense?

But before we point any fingers, a peak inside our own house would be well worth the exercise. I detest the current World Rugby system, which has been adopted to the letter by the IRFU and by the Irish team management, whereby players can choose to represent a country on the basis of residency.

They call them 'project players', but these are guys who are here on contract anyway and earning a damn good living irrespective of the added incentive of an Irish cap (if they so wish) being dangled in front of them.

Players like CJ Stander (and I don't care how well he sings the anthem), Quinn Roux, Bundee Aki, Jared Payne and so on are all of the highest quality, but they are not Irish.

The IRFU, and by extension Joe Schmidt and his fellow selectors, are simply applying the rules, but the rules are wrong. Even a five-year incubation period has me ill at ease, but better that than the current three-year country-of-convenience clause that is attached to most overseas contracts.

All those project players to have worn green are top quality, and I accept I might be in the minority on this one, but I wish no overseas players qualified for Ireland other than through blood line or lineage.

The principle of 'Paddy-come-latelies' from varying corners of the globe qualifying to wear green, while those born, bred and nurtured through the rugby system, and then overtaken by imports is wrong.

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This is not a cut at individual players. Stander is an obvious example. I love his style and commitment, but that still doesn't make him Irish and certainly doesn't make the system right.

When team-mates, specifically at international level, are questioned as to the principle and legitimacy of project player selection, naturally they defend their playing peers against the nasty media, but they are wrong.

To add to the confused message being sent to young and developing indigenous Irish players, and I include genuine exiles in that, is the fact that should they step outside these shores in search of a crust, they are all but banned from international selection.

I am surprised that such a ruling (albeit unwritten) hasn't yet been challenged in law by an overseas-based player or his agent.

I understand the rationale behind Irish management's thinking, specifically when players they rate move beyond their control, but effectively banning them from Test selection smacks of Kangaroo Court syndrome.

In times past, players like Keith Wood, Johnny Sexton and Tommy Bowe have managed to combine playing abroad with an uninterrupted Test career here, and yet now we have the likes of Simon Zebo, Donnacha Ryan and Ian Madigan under the unofficial cloak of persona non grata.

Take it as read that somewhere down the road that unwritten rule will be abolished and ability allied to form, and not place of occupation, will determine selection. But for now, it is what it is.

In the opening two rounds of this year's Six Nations, we have had specific issues at full-back and second-row, yet despite Zebo and Ryan offering clear alternatives, that door was firmly shut despite consistency of performance at a very high level in the Top 14 and Europe dictating that under normal circumstances, both would be in the mix.

Now with Seán O'Brien set to become the latest wild goose to fly, it will be interesting to see just how rigidly his future Test days are numbered.

Once Zebo announced well in advance that he would be moving, he was removed from the frame. Rest assured, and rightly so, that the Tullow Tank will see out this Six Nations series and the World Cup to follow. It smacks of inconsistency.

In terms of success, these are exciting times for Irish rugby, but I do have great difficulty with a system whereby players who did learn the game in this country are given their hat and shown the door, while a project player system has been put in place to attract players who wouldn't have known where this island was when growing up, never mind that we have always played the game with intent and ambition.

It is difficult to argue against the IRFU aspiration to discourage an exodus of talent at the cost of the national team and that maybe a drip will become a flood.

It is neither black nor white and there should be shades of grey. But irrespective of recent success, I am uncomfortable with a system that favours non-Irish players over indigenous ones, particularly those who have come up through the ranks.

The three-year residency ruling ends at the end of next year and it can't be banished quickly enough.

 

"He made the people happy"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2019 at 11:38am
"Make of that what you will, but the bottom line is that this false patriotism (not in every case, I might add) is endemic in every nation in the northern hemisphere. To the best of my knowledge, it is not yet working in reverse, although there are splintered examples, with London-born full-back John Gallagher (of Irish parentage) central to the New Zealand World Cup-winning team of 1987."

Really? New Zealand regularly take who they want from the Polynesian Islands and, to a lesser extent, so have Australia. South African schools have been taking talented Zimbabweans and Namibians for years with the long term goal of getting them to play for the Springboks. The 'Beast' being the most famous example.
Greed has won, big finance has won. Whatever small role elite clubs still play in the local communities from which they grew is dwarfed now by their position as global brands.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Devrozex Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 2019 at 11:53am
Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

"Make of that what you will, but the bottom line is that this false patriotism (not in every case, I might add) is endemic in every nation in the northern hemisphere. To the best of my knowledge, it is not yet working in reverse, although there are splintered examples, with London-born full-back John Gallagher (of Irish parentage) central to the New Zealand World Cup-winning team of 1987."

Really? New Zealand regularly take who they want from the Polynesian Islands and, to a lesser extent, so have Australia. South African schools have been taking talented Zimbabweans and Namibians for years with the long term goal of getting them to play for the Springboks. The 'Beast' being the most famous example.
 
Yeah I thought that was a pretty bizarre comment to make alright. New Zealand have historically probably been the worst team in rugby for poaching non-domestic players.

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