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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Landon Donovan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Sep 2011 at 5:57pm
Originally posted by Bob Hoskins Bob Hoskins wrote:

come on now Evolution??

Evolution is incremental over thousands of years - this is just good practice in the short term

Sorry i should have said sporting evolution. The bar is raised every single time in every sport. The next generation will always be better. There will be somebody faster than Usain Bolt, a better darts player than Taylor, a better driver than Schumacher (probably Vettel). Thats how sport rolls Thumbs Up



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trapped Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Sep 2011 at 6:03pm

 

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"I think that because I am rich, handsome and a great player people are envious of me," he said. "I don't have any other explanation."


What an answer LOL Clap
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Green Devil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Sep 2011 at 6:09pm
Originally posted by Landon Donovan Landon Donovan wrote:

Originally posted by Green Devil Green Devil wrote:

(Brazilian) Ronaldo was one of the greatest forwards of all time , he also won 2 World Cups , countless honours at club level & not to mention he played in a time where the standard of player was alot better than that of today when he was in his prime!!! The calibre of player 10/15 years ago is astonishing compared to now considering you had the likes of  Zidane , Keane , Figo , Maldini , Stam , Van Der Sar , Schmeichel , Desailly , Bergkamp , Rivaldo , Scholes , Romario , Hagi , Hierro , Batistuta , Suker , Cafu ,  Thuram , Cannavaro , Davids etc etc along with the likes of Nesta , Giggs ,  Henry , Carlos etc etc all in their prime can be classed as World Class!!

Who is truely in those players class bar the likes of Messi , Ronaldo , Xaxi , Iniesta & Rooney nowadays????
 
Cristiano Ronaldo is a great player but he has abit to go before he gets to Ronaldo luis nazario de lima level imo Wink

Confused Yes thats easy to say 10/15 years later. In 10/15 years time another person will be saying the exact same thing about the current crop of players and that the players of the day are not like they were back in the day. Im fooking sick of football fans being slaves to the past. Footballers now a days are stronger, fitter, faster, smarter and more talented than they were 10/15 years ago. In 10/15 years time players will be stronger, fitter, faster, smarter and more talented than they are now. Football must be the only sport around that does not believe in evolution.

 
Why are you " Confused " confused??? Football science obviously plays a huge part in todays game , but its a bold statement to make that players are more talented than they were 10/15 years ago??? How exactly??? Players like Torres , Tevez , Sniedjer , Cesc etc etc wouldnt be worth anywhere near what they are nowadays only for an over inflated market....Name 10 World Class defenders that are playing right now who would lace Maldini's , Cafu's , Hierro or Cannavaro's boots?? I would struggle to name 3 or 4....
 
To say the standard of player at present is better than 10 to 15 years is ludacris imo....Its all about Money , Money , Money now!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Landon Donovan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Sep 2011 at 6:43pm

WTF does money and transfer fee's have to do with anything?

Ferdinand: 5 league titles and 1 champions league. Will be viewed as one of united greatest ever players
Vidic: 4 league titles, 1 champs league. Will also be viewed with Ferdinand as a United legend in the best centreback partnership in the clubs history
Puyol: 5 titles, 3 champs league, 1 world cup, 1 european championships. Will go down as Barcelona's and Spain's greatest captain
Pique: Aged 24 and has 3 la ligas, 1 epl, 3 champions league. He will go down in Barca's and Spains history as part of their best ever centre back pairing
Cole: 3 league titles and named in the UEFA team of the year twice. Englands best ever full back
Carvalho: 3 EPL titles, 1 champions league. Will be viewed as one of if not Portugals best ever defender
Zanetti: I dont have to go into Javier Zanetti in fairness
Terry: Chelsea's most succesful captain. 3 titles and named best defender by UEFA for 3 years. Will go down as Chelsea's greatest captain and defender
Kompany: Still young but if he plays like he has since he has signed for City he will go down as a club legend and Belgiums greatest ever defender
Alves: 3 La Ligas, 2 champions leagues, 1 copa america. A Major player in Barcelona's greatest ever team and defence.

The view of defenders is they dont get judged until very late in their career. Maldini wasnt considered better than Baresi until he got into his 30s.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Siralex Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 2011 at 11:06am
Originally posted by Landon Donovan Landon Donovan wrote:

Originally posted by Bob Hoskins Bob Hoskins wrote:

come on now Evolution??

Evolution is incremental over thousands of years - this is just good practice in the short term

Sorry i should have said sporting evolution. The bar is raised every single time in every sport. The next generation will always be better. There will be somebody faster than Usain Bolt, a better darts player than Taylor, a better driver than Schumacher (probably Vettel). Thats how sport rolls Thumbs Up





Jaysus - Lads, c'mon now!

Landon is so right.

Every top class player in teh present day is much better than any top class player of even 10 years ago.  That's blatantly obvious.  The game has evolved so much.

All you'd have to do is see a decent player such as Nani with his shirt off compared to even a great player of 10-years ago such as Figo with his shirt off.

We are talking through proper athletes that compete at the top level now.  It's literally a different ball game.

(Start the; "Figo's much better than Nani" bulllcrap debate) - not really the point! My point is that the players today are much fitter than players of 10-years ago and they can't really be compared.  There truly is a stark difference, and trying to compare them never works. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Devrozex Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 2011 at 11:14am
Originally posted by Siralex Siralex wrote:

Every top class player in teh present day is much better than any top class player of even 10 years ago.  That's blatantly obvious.  The game has evolved so much.

All you'd have to do is see a decent player such as Nani with his shirt off compared to even a great player of 10-years ago such as Figo with his shirt off.

We are talking through proper athletes that compete at the top level now.  It's literally a different ball game.

(Start the; "Figo's much better than Nani" bulllcrap debate) - not really the point! My point is that the players today are much fitter than players of 10-years ago and they can't really be compared.  There truly is a stark difference, and trying to compare them never works.
 
Eh....wha? Confused They can't be compared....but they're much worse? Make your mind up!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Siralex Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 2011 at 11:29am
Originally posted by Devrozex Devrozex wrote:

Originally posted by Siralex Siralex wrote:

Every top class player in teh present day is much better than any top class player of even 10 years ago.  That's blatantly obvious.  The game has evolved so much.

All you'd have to do is see a decent player such as Nani with his shirt off compared to even a great player of 10-years ago such as Figo with his shirt off.

We are talking proper athletes that compete at the top level now.  It's literally a different ball game.

(Start the; "Figo's much better than Nani" bulllcrap debate) - not really the point! My point is that the players today are much fitter than players of 10-years ago and they can't really be compared.  There truly is a stark difference, and trying to compare them never works.
 
Eh....wha? Confused They can't be compared....but they're much worse? Make your mind up!


They can't be compared, because there is no comparison.  An average player today is much better than an average player from the turn of the decade, and a top-class player today is much better than a top-class player from 10-years ago.  Surely that's the most obvious thing ever!!!!  Then again, it probably isn't - you still hear people trying to compare today's players with players in the 60s etc! 

Here'sa good statistic.  1995 Premier League ball in play average 69minutes.
2010: Ballin play average 85mins

Different athletes altogether.  Incomparable!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shoco Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 2011 at 11:45am
definatley better athletes, doesnt mean they are better footballers

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Siralex Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 2011 at 12:04pm
Originally posted by Shoco Shoco wrote:

definatley better athletes, doesnt mean they are better footballers


But sure how could you ever be able to tell that?

Fact of the matter is that players such as Figo - as amazing as he was in his prime, and I mean AMAZING! - would find it very difficult to cope in today's evolved game.  Surely that's just obvious! 

Unless of course he kept equally as fit as the current crop of players.  But he wasn't as fit as them, so it isn't even a debate!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shoco Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 2011 at 12:30pm
not really obvious no

would roy keane struggle in todays game? i dont think he would, would paul scholes of 10 ears ago struggle in todays game? i dont think so

ryan giggs was playing when the premier league started nearly 20 years ago, hes still playing with the top team at the highest level!

say a great player 20 years ago the could dribble with the ball and run at defenders, if you could take same player and put him in the game today with the pitches today i think they would be even better now.

also  i dont think defenders are better at tackling now than 20 years ago

a good defender 20 years that could read the game then could still read the game today

that is all opinion of course and not fact as you would say, but your right wel never know (with the exception of giggs of course who is proof that a great player 20/15 years ago could still be great in the modern game)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The GerK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 2011 at 12:34pm
Originally posted by Siralex Siralex wrote:

Originally posted by Devrozex Devrozex wrote:

Originally posted by Siralex Siralex wrote:

Every top class player in teh present day is much better than any top class player of even 10 years ago.  That's blatantly obvious.  The game has evolved so much.

All you'd have to do is see a decent player such as Nani with his shirt off compared to even a great player of 10-years ago such as Figo with his shirt off.

We are talking proper athletes that compete at the top level now.  It's literally a different ball game.

(Start the; "Figo's much better than Nani" bulllcrap debate) - not really the point! My point is that the players today are much fitter than players of 10-years ago and they can't really be compared.  There truly is a stark difference, and trying to compare them never works.
 
Eh....wha? Confused They can't be compared....but they're much worse? Make your mind up!


They can't be compared, because there is no comparison.  An average player today is much better than an average player from the turn of the decade, and a top-class player today is much better than a top-class player from 10-years ago.  Surely that's the most obvious thing ever!!!!  Then again, it probably isn't - you still hear people trying to compare today's players with players in the 60s etc! 

Here'sa good statistic.  1995 Premier League ball in play average 69minutes.
2010: Ballin play average 85mins


Different athletes altogether.  Incomparable!



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Siralex Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Sep 2011 at 12:46pm
Originally posted by Shoco Shoco wrote:

not really obvious no

would roy keane struggle in todays game? i dont think he would, would paul scholes of 10 ears ago struggle in todays game? i dont think so

ryan giggs was playing when the premier league started nearly 20 years ago, hes still playing with the top team at the highest level!

say a great player 20 years ago the could dribble with the ball and run at defenders, if you could take same player and put him in the game today with the pitches today i think they would be even better now.

also  i dont think defenders are better at tackling now than 20 years ago

a good defender 20 years that could read the game then could still read the game today

that is all opinion of course and not fact as you would say, but your right wel never know (with the exception of giggs of course who is proof that a great player 20/15 years ago could still be great in the modern game)


Yeah - but all that is stuff we don't know and will never know!

It is incomparable to argue about a player 10-years ago being better than a player now, the same as it was when my dad and uncles used to always try to tell me that George Best was better than Ryan Giggs.  The two players are on different planets.  If George Best - in his pomp - was put in to the United team in the early 90s (when we had thsi argument) he'd have been lost.  The game had moved on so much sonce then.

Now, if George had have been born with the same skills later in life, would he have been the ultimate star of 90s football?  Who knows, how can we know....

All we know for facts are that players are much fitter know than they were five years ago, they are much fitter now than they were 10 years ago, they are on a different planet to the players that were stars fifteen years ago and...so on and so on.

The ball is in play much more now than it ever was.  Just 15-years ago, you didn't have 20 ballboys each with a ball pumping the ball back in to play.  You had goalkeepers taking the ball in to their hands with back-passes, you had breathers.  It was totally different ball game.  The best statistic is, and y'all probably remember this, the 1990 World Cup in Italy.  Remember the captions that the TV's used to show?  All the white dots down the two sides of teh screen with statistics every 15minutes.  Time, Score, Ball in Play.  The time would be at 90mins and the Ball in play would be much less than  the hour mark.  FIFA have worked hard on making sure the ball is in play as much as often in teh years since.  Look at all the rule changes.  Same with that stat Gerk asked me for a source for, it's obvious.  I don't have a source, it's probably on-line somewhere, but I know it, because I've used it in very similar arguments over the past year having seen them somewhere. 

But of course that's true, we all know the changes that have been made since.  The 'ball in play' has been increasing every year!  Course it has!




Edited by Siralex - 16 Sep 2011 at 12:48pm
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