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The disgraced John Delaney

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Hans Moleman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hans Moleman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2019 at 1:53am
Originally posted by Drumcondra 69er Drumcondra 69er wrote:

Originally posted by Hans Moleman Hans Moleman wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Originally posted by Hans Moleman Hans Moleman wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

But where are you getting.the evidence that, that was a choice available to them without any repuurcussions that would.result in a bigger financial loss to the org.

You have consistently misrepresented the views of posters on here.  Not one poster has posted that they are happy with.the pay outs. 

Would I be misrepresenting your views if I said that you believe that the former CEO was involved in nothing illegal? Are you still of this belief?

Is it misrepresenting a posters view, when I say that even in the past 2 days a poster was asking me where the proof of misappropriation of funds in the FAI is?

I dont know is the answer. In addition knowing something and proving it are two differnt things also.  

That's fair enough. For anyone to question me about misrepresenting views etc, and then come out with nothingness like this is a sight to behold.


You consistently misrepresent people's views on a variety of threads and in what appears a condescending manner. You then deny doing so and feign indignance which is totally bizarre, to be frank.

I haven't seen one post on here when anyone has said they're happy with JD getting a pay off yet you continuously peddle that line. 
In fact, everyone is rightly angered by it. 

However, most can see that there is most likely more to it than meets the eye. The vast majority of the pay off is pension payments due under the terms of his contract which was signed off by the previous board. Whether there was other illegal activity or not would not necessarily impact on the terms of that contract. I'd actually be amazed if there were any clauses relating to certain behaviours meaning the contract would be breached given how lax corporate governance clearly was. 

If that's the case, and I don't know if it was, then getting out of that contract would be hugely difficult. The law may well be an ass in circumstances like that but it's still the law, much as it's infuriating. Whether individuals may face charges due to other aspects of of company law wouldn't automatically negate pension entitlements for example. 

All people have done is think that may be the case. None of us are experts but when you have the likes of Stuart Gilhooly and Niamh Brennan who are actually experts suggesting that may be the case then it's worth considering that they may be correct. But no, you knowv best. It's laughable carry on. 

I would hope that a clause has been negotiating in the settlement deal that states there is a comeback in the result of a criminal conviction. Again, whether that would have been possible, I don't know. 



Talk about misrepresenting views. There is this absolute nonsense notion of 6/7 posters on this thread who were in agreement with the FAI settling with John Delaney, that anyone disagreeing with that view is not clued in on the potential ramifications of the FAIs actions if they did not come to an agreement with Delaney regarding pensions, payoff etc. It is the most condescending nonsense, and it basically complete and utter stink. I, and plenty of others who hold the same view about this, are well aware of the legalities around pensions, sacking etc. So give over with the complete and utter condescension. It's f*cking nauseating. Does that misrepresent your comments much?

Funnily enough, you never touched on the 200k John Delaney received in wages while on gardening leave. Full pay, while the FAI was in full knowledge of the financial catastrophe it was facing soon. Delaney should have been sacked at that time, and again I want to make clear I am well and truly aware of the potential ramifications the FAI could face down the line before the condescension begins again. 

650k John Delaney has received since last March/April when he should have been sacked. 650k between wages, pension and a payoff from an association that had to borrow 15 million from UEFA during that timeframe just to keep the lights on (correct me if I'm wrong on the amount there). 650k to a man who has left the FAI essentially bankrupt, 55 million plus in debt (it will be a lot lot more in the 2019 accounts), and Irish football facing a decade or 2 of austerity.

No. No. You guys are right. I've changed my mind. He was worth every penny. The FAI definitely took the correct course of action on this one.
"I called him an embarrassment to FIFA and to himself," .... He said 'No-one speaks to me like that'.... and I said, "well I do' and that was that."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hans Moleman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2019 at 1:55am
Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Well said drum.  Nail on the head.  

Are you sure the nail is on the head. Has it been proven at the highest court in the land yet? We don't really know that the nail is definitively on the head otherwise, do we?


Edited by Hans Moleman - 09 Dec 2019 at 1:56am
"I called him an embarrassment to FIFA and to himself," .... He said 'No-one speaks to me like that'.... and I said, "well I do' and that was that."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Claret Murph Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2019 at 6:52am
Hans read what everyone has said .
 Nobody is happy but the law is the law you have to prove it and until now this hasn't been done .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Drumcondra 69er Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2019 at 8:47am
Originally posted by Hans Moleman Hans Moleman wrote:

Originally posted by Drumcondra 69er Drumcondra 69er wrote:

Originally posted by Hans Moleman Hans Moleman wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Originally posted by Hans Moleman Hans Moleman wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

But where are you getting.the evidence that, that was a choice available to them without any repuurcussions that would.result in a bigger financial loss to the org.

You have consistently misrepresented the views of posters on here.  Not one poster has posted that they are happy with.the pay outs. 

Would I be misrepresenting your views if I said that you believe that the former CEO was involved in nothing illegal? Are you still of this belief?

Is it misrepresenting a posters view, when I say that even in the past 2 days a poster was asking me where the proof of misappropriation of funds in the FAI is?

I dont know is the answer. In addition knowing something and proving it are two differnt things also.  

That's fair enough. For anyone to question me about misrepresenting views etc, and then come out with nothingness like this is a sight to behold.


You consistently misrepresent people's views on a variety of threads and in what appears a condescending manner. You then deny doing so and feign indignance which is totally bizarre, to be frank.

I haven't seen one post on here when anyone has said they're happy with JD getting a pay off yet you continuously peddle that line. 
In fact, everyone is rightly angered by it. 

However, most can see that there is most likely more to it than meets the eye. The vast majority of the pay off is pension payments due under the terms of his contract which was signed off by the previous board. Whether there was other illegal activity or not would not necessarily impact on the terms of that contract. I'd actually be amazed if there were any clauses relating to certain behaviours meaning the contract would be breached given how lax corporate governance clearly was. 

If that's the case, and I don't know if it was, then getting out of that contract would be hugely difficult. The law may well be an ass in circumstances like that but it's still the law, much as it's infuriating. Whether individuals may face charges due to other aspects of of company law wouldn't automatically negate pension entitlements for example. 

All people have done is think that may be the case. None of us are experts but when you have the likes of Stuart Gilhooly and Niamh Brennan who are actually experts suggesting that may be the case then it's worth considering that they may be correct. But no, you knowv best. It's laughable carry on. 

I would hope that a clause has been negotiating in the settlement deal that states there is a comeback in the result of a criminal conviction. Again, whether that would have been possible, I don't know. 



Talk about misrepresenting views. There is this absolute nonsense notion of 6/7 posters on this thread who were in agreement with the FAI settling with John Delaney, that anyone disagreeing with that view is not clued in on the potential ramifications of the FAIs actions if they did not come to an agreement with Delaney regarding pensions, payoff etc. It is the most condescending nonsense, and it basically complete and utter stink. I, and plenty of others who hold the same view about this, are well aware of the legalities around pensions, sacking etc. So give over with the complete and utter condescension. It's f*cking nauseating. Does that misrepresent your comments much?

Funnily enough, you never touched on the 200k John Delaney received in wages while on gardening leave. Full pay, while the FAI was in full knowledge of the financial catastrophe it was facing soon. Delaney should have been sacked at that time, and again I want to make clear I am well and truly aware of the potential ramifications the FAI could face down the line before the condescension begins again. 

650k John Delaney has received since last March/April when he should have been sacked. 650k between wages, pension and a payoff from an association that had to borrow 15 million from UEFA during that timeframe just to keep the lights on (correct me if I'm wrong on the amount there). 650k to a man who has left the FAI essentially bankrupt, 55 million plus in debt (it will be a lot lot more in the 2019 accounts), and Irish football facing a decade or 2 of austerity.

No. No. You guys are right. I've changed my mind. He was worth every penny. The FAI definitely took the correct course of action on this one.

Yes, it does but I'd expect nothing less from you. It's par for the course.

I'll await another rambling nonsensical reply where you make the exact same ill-argued point and add absolutely nothing new to the discussion. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hans Moleman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2019 at 8:49am
Meh.
"I called him an embarrassment to FIFA and to himself," .... He said 'No-one speaks to me like that'.... and I said, "well I do' and that was that."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MC Hammered Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2019 at 9:21am

Hans, you're killing this thread. Give it a break for a while please.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hans Moleman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2019 at 9:29am
Originally posted by MC Hammered MC Hammered wrote:


Hans, you're killing this thread. Give it a break for a while please.

Will do buddy
"I called him an embarrassment to FIFA and to himself," .... He said 'No-one speaks to me like that'.... and I said, "well I do' and that was that."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote greengooner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2019 at 10:27am
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/oireachtas-tv/oireachtas-tv-channel/ 
 
Might be useful to bookmark this link and check on Wednesday....AngryAngryAngry
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote inlikeflynn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2019 at 11:57am
It seems that one in ten comments at present are worthwhile, the rest is bickering.

From what I can ascertain, everyone is disgusted by what Delaney has gotten away with. Everyone is saddened by the state what the FAI finds itself in. Everyone is worried about the consequences for football development, the local leagues and the International teams.

We are strongest united. If people keep bickering then the fans won't be able to impact this positively.

In spite of all the posts, everyone is agreement on the important bits, and a legal point, about which we don't have the full info, is causing disharmony.

United we stand, divided we fall.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote greengooner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2019 at 12:18pm
Originally posted by inlikeflynn inlikeflynn wrote:

It seems that one in ten comments at present are worthwhile, the rest is bickering.

From what I can ascertain, everyone is disgusted by what Delaney has gotten away with. Everyone is saddened by the state what the FAI finds itself in. Everyone is worried about the consequences for football development, the local leagues and the International teams.

We are strongest united. If people keep bickering then the fans won't be able to impact this positively.

In spite of all the posts, everyone is agreement on the important bits, and a legal point, about which we don't have the full info, is causing disharmony.

United we stand, divided we fall.
Inlike, I fully agree with your last comment.ClapClap
 
However, I'm not saddened about the state the FAI is in. I'm furious.AngryAngry - this issue has been known about by the powerful in Ireland since 2013, when you look at the threads on here. It's taken six years to get SOME of the information out.
 
I'm saddened that possibly 200 good people will possibly lose their jobs in the near future.CryCry
 
I'm furious that those who were appointed to positions of authority in the FAI allowed this to happen.AngryAngry
 
This debacle, as I see it, is not simply about one man.
 
There are a number of people who have serious serious questions to answer and hopefully:
1. the questions will be asked
2. the investigations from CAB, Gardaí, etc will shed light on who knew what and who agreed to pay what to whom.
 
the FAI is a perfect example of what is wrong with Ireland. The powerful do as they please and the rest of us can do one.
 
Question inlike - to WHAT legal point do you refer?
 
PS. We are FAR from the bottom of this. Whoever said this are wrong. We are still freefalling and have a fair bit to go IMO.
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gufct Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2019 at 12:32pm
the 2019 accounts have yet to be done and the debt will soar again possibly north of €70m and god knows what will come forward from left field.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote inlikeflynn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2019 at 12:49pm
Originally posted by greengooner greengooner wrote:

Question inlike - to WHAT legal point do you refer?
 

Whether or not it could have cost more had Delaney had not been paid severance and his wages this year.

It is a point of contention amongst those here, but it seems only to cause division and nobody is able to provide an answer.

I wish people would just give it up.

Originally posted by greengooner greengooner wrote:

 this issue has been known about by the powerful in Ireland since 2013

Yep, powerful and not so powerful, it happened in slow motion and was clear for all to see. Through reading the YBIG forums, it is no surprise at all. 

From Delaney's big salary, lack of investment in the Irish game. I think the greatest warning sign on here was his ability to crush dissent. Whether it was getting foreign FAs to confiscate flags and banners, control question at AGMs, and the debacle of when a false protest was created on here and he reacted to it, it was clear that Delaney was operating a private police force, in the guise of FAI security, and the state was happy for him to do so. 

A complete and utter dictator for the world to see and the government sat quietly so, to me, Shane Ross' actions now are too little too late.


Edited by inlikeflynn - 09 Dec 2019 at 12:55pm
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Originally posted by Drumcondra 69er Drumcondra 69er wrote:

I would hope that a clause has been negotiating in the settlement deal that states there is a comeback in the result of a criminal conviction. Again, whether that would have been possible, I don't know. 
I hope you'll all forgive me for intruding on private grief etc, but I've found this thread interesting just now (not read it all, by any means).

And having some knowledge of the law (though not recent), I actually think Hans may be onto something.

You talk about a "criminal conviction", but that need not be necessary to allow the FAI to withhold JD's severance package.

For such matters actually involve civil law, not criminal law. So that if JD were to sue the FAI for non-performance of his contract, then if the FAI could demonstrate that he was actually sacked due to Gross Misconduct, then that should provide them with an adequate defence, regardless of whether he committed a crime.

There is much to suggest from what is already known that JD has indeed been guilty of Gross Misconduct - and who knows what else is to emerge?

I myself suspect that the reason why the FAI caved in to JD right up to the end is nothing to do with his contractual rights being watertight etc.

Rather I am minded of every petty dictator in a banana republic who bribes or shoots his way to power. The first thing he does is enter the Treasury and drive off with a truckload of money to his house.
And the second thing is to invite all his cronies round to the Treasury to divide up what's left amongst themselves. That way, they can never turn against him in future, since he has a hold over them.

Now I'm not saying that the Blazers at the FAI improperly diverted cash for themselves etc. But favours? Generous expenses? Free match tickets and drinks afterwards? Grant-aid to their own club/league out in the country? Business Class travel and 5 star hotels on away trips, all on the FAI's tab? There are many ways JD could have kept them sweet, without actually needing to break any law.

To borrow Mafia terminology, just as JD "made them" because it pleased him, then so can he "break them" again if they displease him.

P.S. Even if JD were to bring a case against the FAI for his €460k, this time he would have to fund his own legal expenses first (I doubt any reputable lawyer would take it on a "no win no fee basis"). This could be a considerable amount at risk. And in the end, even if he were to win, thereby adding an extra €3m, say, to the FAI's debt, when you're already €50m? €70m? €90m? in the hole, a relatively small sum like that is unlikely to make the difference between survival and bankruptcy, esp if part of a 10 or 15 year recovery plan.


Edited by Territorial - 09 Dec 2019 at 2:08pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Territorial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2019 at 2:05pm
Sorry, duplicate of above.


Edited by Territorial - 09 Dec 2019 at 2:06pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MC Hammered Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2019 at 2:11pm

I would imagine the above scenario is quite likely Terry. I'm sure that plenty of senior execs have been hanging around, despite the whole world calling for them to leave, in order to "manage" the investigations. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OohAah... Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2019 at 2:15pm
Pro or Anti Martin O Neill irrelevant

The sheer speed to get rid of him and pay a settlement and then blow more money on another manager, shows the sheer scale of the incompetancy from an organisation who were and are bankcrupt

It really is the FAI masterplan, qualification or nothing as the remedy they thought would cure all ills. Akin to been at a roullette table and keep doubling down on your losses. they would do anything to keep the show apparantly on the road as it kept press and fans off their back.

the FAI should be wound up end of. The National team should be pulled out of further competition until We can govern the game effectively in this country. Lads if this was a tinpot 3rd world country We would all agree Fifa would be right to sanction the country.

In the interim an amateur committee is setup with voluntary and government help to administer the game. I dare say most of that already exists. 

We need to establish ground zero and build from there. I fear We arent their yet.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OohAah... Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2019 at 2:18pm
Originally posted by OohAah... OohAah... wrote:

Pro or Anti Martin O Neill irrelevant

The sheer speed to get rid of him and pay a settlement and then blow more money on another manager, shows the sheer scale of the incompetancy from an organisation who were and are bankcrupt

It really is the FAI masterplan, qualification or nothing as the remedy they thought would cure all ills. Akin to been at a roullette table and keep doubling down on your losses. they would do anything to keep the show apparantly on the road as it kept press and fans off their back.

the FAI should be wound up end of. The National team should be pulled out of further competition until We can govern the game effectively in this country. Lads if this was a tinpot 3rd world country We would all agree Fifa would be right to sanction the country.

In the interim an amateur committee is setup with voluntary and government help to administer the game. I dare say most of that already exists. But there again why should tax money be spent on this? Thats a seperate debate

We need to establish ground zero and build from there. I fear We arent their yet.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cabra Hoop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Dec 2019 at 2:26pm
Originally posted by OohAah... OohAah... wrote:

Pro or Anti Martin O Neill irrelevant

The sheer speed to get rid of him and pay a settlement and then blow more money on another manager, shows the sheer scale of the incompetancy from an organisation who were and are bankcrupt

It really is the FAI masterplan, qualification or nothing as the remedy they thought would cure all ills. Akin to been at a roullette table and keep doubling down on your losses. they would do anything to keep the show apparantly on the road as it kept press and fans off their back.

the FAI should be wound up end of. The National team should be pulled out of further competition until We can govern the game effectively in this country. Lads if this was a tinpot 3rd world country We would all agree Fifa would be right to sanction the country.

In the interim an amateur committee is setup with voluntary and government help to administer the game. I dare say most of that already exists. 

We need to establish ground zero and build from there. I fear We arent their yet.


Some might say that the financial policy of the organisation has all the hallmarks of a pyramid scheme......qualification money keeping the pyramid afloat
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