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The Decline of the EPL

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Jack Charlton
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Devrozex Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2015 at 3:59pm
Originally posted by Landon Donovan Landon Donovan wrote:

The league would be in an awful state without Chelsea and Man City. The German model would have prevented that.
 
True, but you could say the same about taking Real and Barca out of La Liga. Take the top two out of any major league in the world and it is likely to be a shadow of itself.
 
There is no doubt the EPL is in decline however and indeed has been in decline for some years. Not having an English side in the Q/Fs of the Champs League might have brought it into the spotlight a bit more, but the decline in the overall standard in the league has been really noticable over the last few years imo.
 
2013/2014 and 2011/12 both had exciting finishes but apart from that will be far from memorable. 2012/2013 was just dire from start to finish really. This season has been a bit like 2012/2013 with Chelsea cantering home to the league whilst everyone else falls asleep during half the matches.
 
It was far from a classic El Classico last night but overall La Liga is streets ahead of the EPL in both the standard of the average player plying their trade there and also for the quality of the top three sides.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roberto Baggio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2015 at 3:59pm
Originally posted by coyne coyne wrote:

Originally posted by Roberto Baggio Roberto Baggio wrote:

One side of the argument of how strong the EPL is in general, is the poor record the EPL clubs have had in the Europa League over the years. Have any of them gone close to even a semi-final in it?

I know some will say they haven't taken it seriously etc, but they are being easily disposed of year in year out by midtable teams from other european leagues and there is no guarantee those teams are taking it that seriously either. 


Chelsea won it only 2 seasons ago.. LOL

But you have to consider the fact the EPL plays 38 games a season without any winter breaks at all. Which is why squad depth the most important thing, look at every single team except from Chelsea fall from grace after entering the Europa League.

Forgot all about that Embarrassed

Even still there have been plenty of examples of second-tier EPL clubs being easily beaten by second tier teams from the likes of Italy, Spain, Germany or weaker leagues even in the competition. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bitored Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2015 at 4:15pm
Football goes through cycles, for a while in the 90`s Serie A was sexy, Then it was EPL as so the so called "best league" in the world. They bought into their own hype in some regards. Right now the best league in Europe is probably La Liga with the Germans a close second.

If Barcelona or Real go sniffing around any of the top sides in England for a player they will get him, no problem. It doesn't matter if he`s the best player in the team he will go there. Ronaldo, Suarez, Bale. Now take the opposite view. Could a top English side go in and tempt those 3 players back or take Benzema, Isco, Ramos, Messi or any of the other top performers in Spain and I think the answer is no.

It has a lot to do with lifestyle. If anyone googles Ronaldo`s house in Spain, you`ll see he has more swimming pools than blades of grass on his lawn. The weather is warm almost all year round and the lifestyle is just much better in Madrid or Barcelona than it is in London and Manchester.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dunloybhoy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2015 at 4:32pm
without Sky tv the EPL would be nothing. The money is all that makes it the self professed best league in the world. The players are only there for the wages and nothing more. When mid table average teams can throw about £30-40k a week at players and survive then theres something not right.
put em under pressure!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rossieman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2015 at 4:42pm
Originally posted by Roberto Baggio Roberto Baggio wrote:

Originally posted by coyne coyne wrote:

Originally posted by Roberto Baggio Roberto Baggio wrote:

One side of the argument of how strong the EPL is in general, is the poor record the EPL clubs have had in the Europa League over the years. Have any of them gone close to even a semi-final in it?

I know some will say they haven't taken it seriously etc, but they are being easily disposed of year in year out by midtable teams from other european leagues and there is no guarantee those teams are taking it that seriously either. 

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Chelsea won it only 2 seasons ago.. LOL

But you have to consider the fact the EPL plays 38 games a season without any winter breaks at all. Which is why squad depth the most important thing, look at every single team except from Chelsea fall from grace after entering the Europa League.



Forgot all about that Embarrassed

Even still there have been plenty of examples of second-tier EPL clubs being easily beaten by second tier teams from the likes of Italy, Spain, Germany or weaker leagues even in the competition. 



Fulham reached the final in 2010.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Landon Donovan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2015 at 4:44pm
Originally posted by dunloybhoy dunloybhoy wrote:

without Sky tv the EPL would be nothing. The money is all that makes it the self professed best league in the world. The players are only there for the wages and nothing more. When mid table average teams can throw about £30-40k a week at players and survive then theres something not right.


Without TV money, most leagues would dive. It is still the 2nd highest attended league in the World. I do not understand what point you were trying to make.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roberto Baggio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2015 at 4:45pm
yes i remember that

And since then Dynamo Kiev have beaten Man City & Everton, Braga beat Liverpool, Athletic Bilbao beat Man United, Fiorentina beat Tottenham, Sporting Lisbon beat City, Basel beat Spurs and Benfica have beaten Spurs, all in knockout rounds before the semi finals. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2015 at 4:50pm
The problem with the EPL and has been the problem with English football for a long time, is their stubborn arrogance to admit when things are wrong. The afftermath of every team crashing out of Europe in spectacular fashion was to blame the league's strength in depth . Even if true, it had little effect when the top English teams dominated Europe. This even before ignoring that the standard in the lower half ddeteriorates year on year. A quick look at the points total needed for survival would show ya that. 40 was once the magic number, 34 will probably do this year.
If anything, money is having a negative effect, something that Eamo acknowledges. QPR in the championship famously had a larger wage bil, than Atleti or Dortmund at the time. Clubs seem to think that throwing money at new players and managers will solve everything. Very few clubs are producing players or buying unpolished diamonds. If Burnley survive, or even if they don't, it might inspire some chairmen to change.
Again though, for many the chairmen are the problem. All these foreign owners are buying the clubs to inflate their ego and improve their public persona. You won't get that by building from the bottom up and keeping out of tge papers.
As for the argument against Germany and Bayern's dominance? Apart from the day of the 'Aguerooooooooooooooooooooo' goal, the league in England is often a procession. You cannot blame Bayern for putting together a fabulous team with a fabulous manager. The teams who have caused them most problems domestically, Dortmund and Monchengladbach who have got 4 points off them this year following yesterday's victory, have done so through clever management and long term plans, something absent from the English game. The only big club to test this theory has been Spurs this year with the likes of Kane and Mason, two previous reserves cast aside by big money mercenaries and not played by managers determined to splash the cash.
Outside of Kane and Mason, how many young players break through at top half clubs compared to Germany and Spain and as a result, how many performances do you see from players at these clubs like Toure's at the camp nou or Di Maria and Falcao all season?
The arrogance, not just the old imperial attitude but from those within the game there-Mourinho's ignorant comments on the French league, the likes of Dunphy suggesting mid table teams just roll over in Madrid and Barcelona, sum up the smug attitude that needs to change. When German football was in a crisis, they changed things that resulted in them being world champions. When English football is in crisis, they tell you it is because they are the best league in the world. Mate.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cabra Hoop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2015 at 4:54pm
Originally posted by Roberto Baggio Roberto Baggio wrote:

yes i remember that

And since then Dynamo Kiev have beaten Man City & Everton, Braga beat Liverpool, Athletic Bilbao beat Man United, Fiorentina beat Tottenham, Sporting Lisbon beat City, Basel beat Spurs and Benfica have beaten Spurs, all in knockout rounds before the semi finals. 
 
Not forgetting there are several Italian teams still in european competitions this season.
 
An EPL collapse similiar to Italy is unlikely - the EPL has a captive TV audience globally as well as larger international fan bases. As long as people continue to subscribe to Sky the EPL is good for a long time to come.
 
The quality of some of the games is terribly poor, but the packaging and presentation dupes the uneducated fan. Sky will declare a 2-2 draw a great advertisement for the games even if all 4 goals come from horrendously poor defending.


Edited by Cabra Hoop - 23 Mar 2015 at 4:58pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roberto Baggio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2015 at 5:01pm
The new line from the pundits is - "its the best to watch, or the one i would choose to watch"

Well obviously as they are English, they're going to prefer watching the EPL above any other league. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cabra Hoop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2015 at 5:08pm
Originally posted by Roberto Baggio Roberto Baggio wrote:

The new line from the pundits is - "its the best to watch, or the one i would choose to watch"

Well obviously as they are English, they're going to prefer watching the EPL above any other league. 
 
Or the most entertaining and then have a moan that there are only 3 decent teams in Spain/Germany etc. -
 
One pundit recently said before the last 16 CL games that the EPL is far superior to L1 and yet Chelsea/Arsenal are knocked out by French teams never mind the top EPL team were played off the pitch home and away.
" BFC always gives me a laugh........ "
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roberto Baggio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2015 at 5:09pm
"No easy games" is another 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Double Maxim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2015 at 5:53pm
Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

The problem with the EPL and has been the problem with English football for a long time, is their stubborn arrogance to admit when things are wrong. The afftermath of every team crashing out of Europe in spectacular fashion was to blame the league's strength in depth . Even if true, it had little effect when the top English teams dominated Europe. This even before ignoring that the standard in the lower half ddeteriorates year on year. A quick look at the points total needed for survival would show ya that. 40 was once the magic number, 34 will probably do this year.
If anything, money is having a negative effect, something that Eamo acknowledges. QPR in the championship famously had a larger wage bil, than Atleti or Dortmund at the time. Clubs seem to think that throwing money at new players and managers will solve everything. Very few clubs are producing players or buying unpolished diamonds. If Burnley survive, or even if they don't, it might inspire some chairmen to change.
Again though, for many the chairmen are the problem. All these foreign owners are buying the clubs to inflate their ego and improve their public persona. You won't get that by building from the bottom up and keeping out of tge papers.
As for the argument against Germany and Bayern's dominance? Apart from the day of the 'Aguerooooooooooooooooooooo' goal, the league in England is often a procession. You cannot blame Bayern for putting together a fabulous team with a fabulous manager. The teams who have caused them most problems domestically, Dortmund and Monchengladbach who have got 4 points off them this year following yesterday's victory, have done so through clever management and long term plans, something absent from the English game. The only big club to test this theory has been Spurs this year with the likes of Kane and Mason, two previous reserves cast aside by big money mercenaries and not played by managers determined to splash the cash.
Outside of Kane and Mason, how many young players break through at top half clubs compared to Germany and Spain and as a result, how many performances do you see from players at these clubs like Toure's at the camp nou or Di Maria and Falcao all season?
The arrogance, not just the old imperial attitude but from those within the game there-Mourinho's ignorant comments on the French league, the likes of Dunphy suggesting mid table teams just roll over in Madrid and Barcelona, sum up the smug attitude that needs to change. When German football was in a crisis, they changed things that resulted in them being world champions. When English football is in crisis, they tell you it is because they are the best league in the world. Mate.
 
 
You make some excellent points there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trap junior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2015 at 7:13pm
I always laugh at these type of articles. Just because the English teams were knocked out doesnt mean that the league in in terminal decline. They are just going on a small lull period. English teams were always in the semis and finals for a number of years. Its the nature of sport. Its waves of ups and downs.  Sure they were saying Spanish football was finished after 2013 semi's of the CL.  Last year Real won it. Then they were saying German football is fooked, now its english football.

Its just a short period where United, Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal just happen to have relatively poor sides compared to a few years ago.  They will be back challenging for the CL. Chelsea will anyway despite the negative crap they play.
So you've decided to read this eh?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ftm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2015 at 8:32pm
I think the jouno has a point about Arsenal.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sid waddell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2015 at 1:57am
Originally posted by ftm ftm wrote:

I think the jouno has a point about Arsenal.
If Arsenal are in "complete disarray", well, all I can say is that the vast majority of clubs would love to be in that sort of disarray. Arsenal is as well run a club as there is.





Edited by sid waddell - 24 Mar 2015 at 1:58am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote coyne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2015 at 3:30am
Originally posted by sid waddell sid waddell wrote:

Originally posted by ftm ftm wrote:

I think the jouno has a point about Arsenal.
If Arsenal are in "complete disarray", well, all I can say is that the vast majority of clubs would love to be in that sort of disarray. Arsenal is as well run a club as there is.

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The only "crisis" Arsenal have had is for being way over-cautious with their fortunes.

Another thing I couldn't help but notice is apparently the EPL's middle ranks are "weak" - Looking at the table we have billionaire owned Southampton who 3 years ago were in League 1 and Swansea City who exactly 11 years ago and 2 months ago were playing in a relegation decider to the Conference against Exeter City and this season have just done the double over Man Utd.

If anything the chasing pack are getting stronger and better.

The main reason Clubs like these are now successful is because they've not bothered with foreign investment and are ran by proper football people. The former club mentioned has a foreign billionaire but look at the players who came out of their academy over the past decade(!) and not just splashed the cash like crazed maniacs which some Clubs opted to


Edited by coyne - 24 Mar 2015 at 3:41am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ftm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2015 at 7:28am
Silly me I forget about all those CL trophies that the Gooners have won!
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