You Boys in Green Homepage YBIG Shop
Forum Home Forum Home : Other Forums : Whatever!
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - The Crime Thread
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

The Crime Thread
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 265266267268>
Author
Message
  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
horsebox View Drop Down
Robbie Keane
Robbie Keane
Avatar
Born n bred in darndale.

Joined: 03 Feb 2010
Location: Ireland
Status: Offline
Points: 33185 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horsebox Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 2023 at 6:34pm
Originally posted by Colum Colum wrote:

Originally posted by ShamtheRam ShamtheRam wrote:

Dowdall played a blinder for him. Clap 
His end goal was always to try be highlighted that he's not a credible witness and to a level where the case potentially gets thrown out. Job done today. 

Dowdall recorded himself waterboarding someone and booked a room in the Regency on his own credit card. I don’t think he has the intelligence level to pull off some elaborate Sleepers style throwing of a case. 

They used their own cars as the get away cars. Why? Hutch went to slaughter the Kinehans but was extremely sloppy in his approach, but on other jobs that he did he was extremely careful.

I think Gerry has so much influence in the Gards that meant he knew he was going to get away with this.
It was far across the sea,
When the devil got a hold of me,
He wouldn't set me free,
So he kept me soul for ransom.
na na na na na na na na na
na na na na na na na na.
I'm a sailor man from Glasgow to
Back to Top
Shedite View Drop Down
Jack Charlton
Jack Charlton
Avatar

Joined: 09 Dec 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 9526 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shedite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2023 at 9:06am
Very interesting trial, followed most of the testimony.

Dowdall obviously was the key evidence and he seems too much of a simpleton to be taken at his work for a conviction. There was a lot of hearsay about it. I found it very odd that that the Gardai couldn't even put Hutch in the country at the time of the murder. With all the video and IT records around these days, you'd think they could have tracked him. They know he flew back from Spain for the funeral of his brother a few weeks later.
Back to Top
Huggybeer View Drop Down
Liam Brady
Liam Brady


Joined: 29 Mar 2011
Location: Ireland
Status: Offline
Points: 1360 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Huggybeer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2023 at 9:48am
Originally posted by Bandwagon Bandwagon wrote:

Originally posted by t_rAndy t_rAndy wrote:

A lot of love for Hutch on social media. Lots of people celebrating the outcome 


Of course there is they all think hes a modern day Robin Hood


Hes the underdog against the goliath that is the kinahans, who every rational irish person is sick of being untouchable.
He laid a glove on them when, every international law inforcement agency hasent been seen too

only one with the nads or stupidity to take them on, or was a rat backed into a corner that had to bite
Getting old and intolerant
Back to Top
Green Cockade View Drop Down
Liam Brady
Liam Brady
Avatar

Joined: 22 Jan 2020
Location: Belfast
Status: Offline
Points: 2336 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Green Cockade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2023 at 12:34pm
An ODC with attitude, some might say.
Back to Top
The Huntacha View Drop Down
Roy Keane
Roy Keane
Avatar

Joined: 27 Mar 2012
Location: Dubai
Status: Offline
Points: 11926 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Huntacha Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2023 at 1:00pm
It was a strange move from the DPP to press forward with the charges even though the Gardai involved in the case weren’t confident that they’d get a conviction based on the evidence they had.

And having Dowdall as your key witness was a disaster for the State, as unreliable a witness as you’re likely to find.
Jimmy Bullard - "Favorite band? Elastic."
Back to Top
irish_major View Drop Down
Ray Houghton
Ray Houghton
Avatar
Bookie Slayer

Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Location: Ireland
Status: Offline
Points: 3751 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote irish_major Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2023 at 1:21pm
Mental case by the state. I'd say they were just banking on the special criminal court giving the conviction as they do in almost every other case. Why the state didn't pursue a lesser charge of facilitating the murder is beyond belief. 

Hutch's counsel were brilliant - the questioning of Dowdall for more than a week was certainly the winning of the case for them. He is a disgrace and was almost certainly more involved than he let on. Having to pay for that fooker to be in witness protection for the rest of his days is gutting. 
Here we go again
Back to Top
KING-CON View Drop Down
Liam Brady
Liam Brady
Avatar

Joined: 26 Oct 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 1211 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KING-CON Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2023 at 1:32pm
Originally posted by irish_major irish_major wrote:

Mental case by the state. I'd say they were just banking on the special criminal court giving the conviction as they do in almost every other case. Why the state didn't pursue a lesser charge of facilitating the murder is beyond belief. 

Hutch's counsel were brilliant - the questioning of Dowdall for more than a week was certainly the winning of the case for them. He is a disgrace and was almost certainly more involved than he let on. Having to pay for that fooker to be in witness protection for the rest of his days is gutting. 



This is the bit I don't get. I don't know enough about the law to know if he can now be recharged with this? Could they not have thrown a load of charges at him? No one is arguing that he wasn't involved at all.
Back to Top
horsebox View Drop Down
Robbie Keane
Robbie Keane
Avatar
Born n bred in darndale.

Joined: 03 Feb 2010
Location: Ireland
Status: Offline
Points: 33185 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horsebox Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2023 at 1:54pm
Tinfoil hat time but is it beyond the realms of possibility that Hutch's defence team orchestrated Dowdall to go into custody and basically become an unreliable witness?

It does appear that Bonney got 2 witnesses to step forward and say it was his Father who was driving the car.

I mean, if you create doubt - you'll walk away a free man which is exactly what happened.

Hutch is a very smart individual.
It was far across the sea,
When the devil got a hold of me,
He wouldn't set me free,
So he kept me soul for ransom.
na na na na na na na na na
na na na na na na na na.
I'm a sailor man from Glasgow to
Back to Top
The Huntacha View Drop Down
Roy Keane
Roy Keane
Avatar

Joined: 27 Mar 2012
Location: Dubai
Status: Offline
Points: 11926 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Huntacha Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2023 at 2:11pm
Someone earlier in the thread mentioned Sleepers but I actually think Dowdall was just a disaster of a witness for the state rather than some ingenious tactic by Hutch.

I could be wrong but didn’t a member of Bonny’s family discredited his theory that his deceased father was driving the taxi.
Jimmy Bullard - "Favorite band? Elastic."
Back to Top
MC Hammered View Drop Down
Jack Charlton
Jack Charlton


Joined: 05 Oct 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 6530 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MC Hammered Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2023 at 2:13pm

Yeah it did occur to me that Dowdall was too bad to be true but if he was a plant, it wouldnt explain why the DPP were prepared to go all in on his testimony. 
El Puto Amo
Back to Top
horsebox View Drop Down
Robbie Keane
Robbie Keane
Avatar
Born n bred in darndale.

Joined: 03 Feb 2010
Location: Ireland
Status: Offline
Points: 33185 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horsebox Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2023 at 2:17pm
What other evidence did the DPP have against Hutch?

Dowdall would be a considered a rat which is the lowest of the low.
It was far across the sea,
When the devil got a hold of me,
He wouldn't set me free,
So he kept me soul for ransom.
na na na na na na na na na
na na na na na na na na.
I'm a sailor man from Glasgow to
Back to Top
Shedite View Drop Down
Jack Charlton
Jack Charlton
Avatar

Joined: 09 Dec 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 9526 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shedite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2023 at 2:39pm
Originally posted by horsebox horsebox wrote:

What other evidence did the DPP have against Hutch?

Dowdall would be a considered a rat which is the lowest of the low.

Nothing of note really, the judgement said that you can bring in testimony like Dowdell's but only if it is used to back up other evidence. Using it as evidence on it's own isn't worth much.

Listening to the Crime World podcast about it this morning, they explained that the usual for convict turned witness like Dowdell is that you're brought into court, have to basically acknowledge all the wrongs you've done, and can then explain the wrongs that the other person (Monk) did. Kinda explain how you were both in the wrong. Sounds like Dowdell didn't do any of that, always explained away his crimes, while wanting to show the crimes Monk did, so it was a tough testimony to believe
Back to Top
Shedite View Drop Down
Jack Charlton
Jack Charlton
Avatar

Joined: 09 Dec 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 9526 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shedite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2023 at 2:40pm
Originally posted by irish_major irish_major wrote:

Mental case by the state. I'd say they were just banking on the special criminal court giving the conviction as they do in almost every other case. Why the state didn't pursue a lesser charge of facilitating the murder is beyond belief.
Yeah that's the big mistake in this case. Feels like someone wanted to be able to retire on the reputation of the guy who put away Hutch
Back to Top
t_rAndy View Drop Down
Robbie Keane
Robbie Keane


Joined: 06 Feb 2008
Location: Ireland
Status: Offline
Points: 25112 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote t_rAndy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2023 at 3:04pm
You would think it was kind a slam dunk for firearms charges or being part of a criminal enterprise type charges, etc.

Why didnt they go for that you would wonder, especially as they only got JD's to turn state witness year or so after Hutch was on remand.
Could it be they needed the murder charge for the interpol warrant and extradition?

And why didn't they go for Patsy instead? Or charge him too.
Back to Top
Terzino View Drop Down
Kevin Kilbane
Kevin Kilbane


Joined: 06 Apr 2016
Status: Offline
Points: 478 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Terzino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2023 at 4:59pm
How does this story go? 

Off the top of my head, it goes something like this:

- Media are informed of possible trouble

- Trouble occurs in the form of an assassination, but Guards are nowhere to be seen (except for the assassins in blue!)

- Guards show up late because they are not allowed to use sirens and drive fast

- Media have pictures of assassins, but these are censored in all publications!

- The assassin in the censored photos dies (never even questioned (?))

- A Garda investigated for something minor is accidentally discovered to be a Hutch asset

- Hutch trial ends in farce after State puts the entire case into the hands of an unreliable witness



It's the murkiest series of events where it's difficult to tell exactly what the State was up to, from the attempted assassination of Kinahan, right up to the Hutch trial.
Back to Top
t_rAndy View Drop Down
Robbie Keane
Robbie Keane


Joined: 06 Feb 2008
Location: Ireland
Status: Offline
Points: 25112 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote t_rAndy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2023 at 5:10pm
Originally posted by Terzino Terzino wrote:

How does this story go? 

Off the top of my head, it goes something like this:

- Media are informed of possible trouble

- Trouble occurs in the form of an assassination, but Guards are nowhere to be seen (except for the assassins in blue!)

- Guards show up late because they are not allowed to use sirens and drive fast

- Media have pictures of assassins, but these are censored in all publications!

- The assassin in the censored photos dies (never even questioned (?))

- A Garda investigated for something minor is accidentally discovered to be a Hutch asset

- Hutch trial ends in farce after State puts the entire case into the hands of an unreliable witness



It's the murkiest series of events where it's difficult to tell exactly what the State was up to, from the attempted assassination of Kinahan, right up to the Hutch trial.

Was that the one that killed himself?
Back to Top
Borussia View Drop Down
Jack Charlton
Jack Charlton
Avatar

Joined: 14 Oct 2010
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 9142 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Borussia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2023 at 5:20pm
Originally posted by Terzino Terzino wrote:

How does this story go? 

Off the top of my head, it goes something like this:

- Media are informed of possible trouble

- Trouble occurs in the form of an assassination, but Guards are nowhere to be seen (except for the assassins in blue!)

- Guards show up late because they are not allowed to use sirens and drive fast

- Media have pictures of assassins, but these are censored in all publications!

- The assassin in the censored photos dies (never even questioned (?))

- A Garda investigated for something minor is accidentally discovered to be a Hutch asset

- Hutch trial ends in farce after State puts the entire case into the hands of an unreliable witness



It's the murkiest series of events where it's difficult to tell exactly what the State was up to, from the attempted assassination of Kinahan, right up to the Hutch trial.

Were you the lad who made that "movie" that appeared online a few years ago supposedly showing what really happened????!!!!
Back to Top
Terzino View Drop Down
Kevin Kilbane
Kevin Kilbane


Joined: 06 Apr 2016
Status: Offline
Points: 478 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Terzino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2023 at 8:22pm
The Guard who killed himself caused the collapse of the earlier Patrick Hutch trial. However, the Guard I mentioned got 6 years for possession of drugs.

I can't remember exactly, but his house was raided for one thing, but loads of drugs were discovered instead.

And I've never seen that Kinahan movie. 

However, the weirdness of this affair raises many questions. And when you combine it with previous cases, like the Kieran Boylan Affair, you are left wondering about the State's bona fides in tackling organised crime.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 265266267268>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.00
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.