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The Huntacha View Drop Down
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Points: 12753 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Huntacha Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 2020 at 10:56am
Just watching MOTD and forgot about Ceballos' dive in the first half when he was in a good position to either shoot or lay it off 8 yards out. 
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Its symptomatic of Arsenal's struggles that Rob Holding appears to be undroppable in their team at the minute
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Just read Arsenal fans were complaining on twitter that Walcott celebrated scoring against them.
That's ridiculous
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Originally posted by ChesterCopperpot ChesterCopperpot wrote:

Just read Arsenal fans were complaining on twitter that Walcott celebrated scoring against them.
That's ridiculous

It was a beautiful goal.
It was the type of goal that persuaded Arsenal to buy him in the first place.

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He's been surprisingly quality since he has returned
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Originally posted by Devrozex Devrozex wrote:

Originally posted by The Huntacha The Huntacha wrote:

I'm surprised that it's started to fall apart so quickly. At the start of the season, I thought they might have a good chance at a CL spot. They're either being poorly coached, or else just not playing for Arteta. I'd be inclined to think it's the latter.
 
Yeah I reckon it's far more likely this as well.
 
Only Tierney and Saka seem to be really trying - the rest are strolling through games. Aubameyang and Lacazette in particular have been pretty disgraceful for them this season.

There seems little doubt that at least some of the players aren't doing it for Arteta.

But I reckon his coaching/tactics may not be helping, either. Over the last couple of seasons, Arsenal have been built round Aubameyang's goals. And he's a classic "one-touch" striker, arriving in the box to finish off a quick attack like eg Lineker or van Nistelrooy.

The fact that his goals have dried up this season suggests that he's simply not getting the service he's been used to and he's never been the sort of player who will create chances of his own.
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I like to see ex players celebrate tbh
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Arteta looks so painfully out of his depth, to say I'm shocked is an understatement. 

I fully get that he's trying to overhaul the team and change the culture 'but' I find the sympathy for him from certain quarters to be way off the mark. If you scan through that Arsenal squad, it's far stronger than what results are suggesting. 

The manager doesn't know his best 11, he doesn't know his strongest formation, they look toothless in an attacking sense (even when teams allow them to boss possession) and its pretty evident they don't plan nor prepare to defend set pieces.

Marking non existent and small men marking the oppositions best headers of a ball, this is schoolboy stuff?!!!
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it was a job for a more experienced manager 
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What a disaster of a career move for Aubameyang. 
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You just feel it would not take too much for Arsenal to click , look they have the players that's for sure now something is not right and i would say dressing room is where the players are having troubles .

At times like these you have to give the kids a chance as Willam and Pepe are not working up a sweat and Abu looks half the player he was last season .
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Originally posted by Claret Murph Claret Murph wrote:

You just feel it would not take too much for Arsenal to click , look they have the players that's for sure now something is not right and i would say dressing room is where the players are having troubles .

At times like these you have to give the kids a chance as Willam and Pepe are not working up a sweat and Abu looks half the player he was last season .

I'm not sure I agree with your bold (and Arsenal fans certainly don't appear to!).

But even if they should "click", and/or whether Arteta is the man to make it happen, isn't that missing the bigger point?

Which is that even with their best XI all fully motivated and playing to their potential etc, they'd still be nowhere near the top 6 or 7 teams in the PL?

For players like Luiz, Willian and even Aubameyang are the wrong side of 30; the youngsters, while promising, simply aren't yet ready for a top four challenge; whilst players like Xhaka and Holding are mediocre, mid-table PL players at best.

I doubt there's a single Arsenal player would get into the Liverpool side, whilst only two or three (at most) would slot into Man City/Man U/Spurs/Leicester etc.

Which after an horrendous 8 days for Spurs, is some small consolation for me! LOL
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Originally posted by Green Devil Green Devil wrote:

Arteta looks so painfully out of his depth, to say I'm shocked is an understatement. 

I fully get that he's trying to overhaul the team and change the culture 'but' I find the sympathy for him from certain quarters to be way off the mark. If you scan through that Arsenal squad, it's far stronger than what results are suggesting. 

The manager doesn't know his best 11, he doesn't know his strongest formation, they look toothless in an attacking sense (even when teams allow them to boss possession) and its pretty evident they don't plan nor prepare to defend set pieces.

Marking non existent and small men marking the oppositions best headers of a ball, this is schoolboy stuff?!!!

Even if he isn't, his ramblings about % chance of winning and losing games recently was a sign that he is clutching at straws. The style of play is boring and unimaginative. Every pass goes wide. Under Wenger, and even Emery, Arsenal scored a lot of goals from pull backs from the by-line inside the box. I haven't seen one goal like that under Arteta. Instead of that, it's cross after cross to small forwards against big defenders. Crazy tactic.

The formation thing is a consistent problem. Even last night's game, they changed formation mid-game. Players can't constantly alternate between formations every game and be expected to know the position inside out. And shoehorning someone like Kolasinac into a back 3 doesn't work. He's barely good enough for his own position. 

Along with that, some players end up playing in different positions each game. Tierney and Saka seem to have a good relationship on the left side, but they both end up playing in different positions in each game, meaning they can't develop this over a run of games.

Maitland-Niles is another example. He wants to play in midfield, but spends most of the time playing either RB, LB, or in the WB positions. He might not be good enough for midfield, but at least give him a chance, especially when the current midfield isn't performing well.

Runarsson has overtaken Eboue at the top of my list of worst individual performances I've seen. He wa brutal last night.
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Originally posted by The Huntacha The Huntacha wrote:

Originally posted by Green Devil Green Devil wrote:

Arteta looks so painfully out of his depth, to say I'm shocked is an understatement. 

I fully get that he's trying to overhaul the team and change the culture 'but' I find the sympathy for him from certain quarters to be way off the mark. If you scan through that Arsenal squad, it's far stronger than what results are suggesting. 

The manager doesn't know his best 11, he doesn't know his strongest formation, they look toothless in an attacking sense (even when teams allow them to boss possession) and its pretty evident they don't plan nor prepare to defend set pieces.

Marking non existent and small men marking the oppositions best headers of a ball, this is schoolboy stuff?!!!

Even if he isn't, his ramblings about % chance of winning and losing games recently was a sign that he is clutching at straws. The style of play is boring and unimaginative. Every pass goes wide. Under Wenger, and even Emery, Arsenal scored a lot of goals from pull backs from the by-line inside the box. I haven't seen one goal like that under Arteta. Instead of that, it's cross after cross to small forwards against big defenders. Crazy tactic.

The formation thing is a consistent problem. Even last night's game, they changed formation mid-game. Players can't constantly alternate between formations every game and be expected to know the position inside out. And shoehorning someone like Kolasinac into a back 3 doesn't work. He's barely good enough for his own position. 

Along with that, some players end up playing in different positions each game. Tierney and Saka seem to have a good relationship on the left side, but they both end up playing in different positions in each game, meaning they can't develop this over a run of games.

Maitland-Niles is another example. He wants to play in midfield, but spends most of the time playing either RB, LB, or in the WB positions. He might not be good enough for midfield, but at least give him a chance, especially when the current midfield isn't performing well.

Runarsson has overtaken Eboue at the top of my list of worst individual performances I've seen. He wa brutal last night.

I'm sure all you say is correct, Huntacha.

But it doesn't address the bigger picture, which that as a club (not team), Arsenal have been in gradual, if slow, decline for the last decade.

And the root cause of that was not Arteta, or Emery, but Wenger. After an opening decade at the club, when his new ideas and methods did wonders for them, other clubs eventually caught up and then moved ahead.

Meanwhile, he failed to keep up, yet such was his revered status at the club that no-one could or would call him to account. For example, throughout his entire tenure, his trusted ally and No.2 was Boro Primorac. No doubt Primorac was a very good Coach etc, but if you look at his CV, both player and coach, it was confined to Croatia and France, before teaming up with AW in Japan, at the start of a 26 year association.

Compare that with Ferguson, who had a succession of Assistant Coaches during his time at MU, from many different backgrounds, and who kept his ideas fresh until eventually they challenged him once too often (or they wanted to leave for a top job) and he replaced them.

Meanwhile, AW covered up for his and the club's deficiencies by winning cups, then maintaining Top 4/CL, until eventually that faded too and they finally binned him. Meanwhile, everything else at the club was falling further behind, or falling apart, made worse by owners who were uninformed and unconcerned, so long as the money kept rolling in.

Quite honestly, you wouldn't expect even a seasoned manager, with a huge budget, to turn round 10 years of decline in less than 4 or 5, so how/why did anyone expect a rookie like Arteta to manage it in less?
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I think that’s harsh on Wenger.

Arsenal were competitive from 98 to 06 and won their fair share of trophies- their budget was top 2/3 in that time and never that far off Man U. 

But Chelsea brought spending to another level and Man City also came along. Man U had to up their spending to match them.

Arsenal choose not to go to that level and therefore could no longer compete for the league. 
Their budget was 4th and they consistently achieved 4th.

3 FA cups in that period was not bad. 
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Blaming Wenger for Arsenal's performances since 2018 is like blaming Ferguson for Manchester United's performances since 2013

Two and a half years after Rodgers left Liverpool, Klopp was leading them to a Champions League final

I thought around the time of Arsenal winning the FA Cup that Arteta was on to something good, but it sure doesn't look like it now, it's getting away from him big time and if this run continues the sack can't be far away
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Originally posted by Zinedine Kilbane 110 Zinedine Kilbane 110 wrote:

I think that’s harsh on Wenger.

Arsenal were competitive from 98 to 06 and won their fair share of trophies- their budget was top 2/3 in that time and never that far off Man U. 

But Chelsea brought spending to another level and Man City also came along. Man U had to up their spending to match them.

Arsenal choose not to go to that level and therefore could no longer compete for the league. 
Their budget was 4th and they consistently achieved 4th.

3 FA cups in that period was not bad. 

Arteta won the FA Cup last season; did that make him a "success", or did it merely paper over the cracks?

Fact is, the English game which AW came into in 1996 and transformed, was unrecognisably bigger and more professional, in every respect, than that which he left in 2018. So that with AW insisting on complete controll of just about every aspect of the club's playing operations, even if he was able to keep up with every new development, at best it meant there was no structure or personnel in place for when he left. And with hindsight, all the evidence suggests he wasn't even keeping up personally.

Of course, you could argue that it wasn't for AW to concern himself about his legacy. But his blind refusal to cede control over any operational matters, plus his legendary status amongst Arsenal fans, allied with his refusal to resign, meant that the Board was reluctant to push him out (at least until the CL gravy train started leaving without them).

Contrast that with Ferguson, who can at least say he left on his own terms and with one final PL trophy in the cabinet, achieved with arguably the worst MU team ever to become champions. After which he stepped up to the Boardroom at OT, without a word of criticism attached to him regarding MU's subsequent struggles.
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Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Originally posted by Zinedine Kilbane 110 Zinedine Kilbane 110 wrote:

I think that’s harsh on Wenger.

Arsenal were competitive from 98 to 06 and won their fair share of trophies- their budget was top 2/3 in that time and never that far off Man U. 

But Chelsea brought spending to another level and Man City also came along. Man U had to up their spending to match them.

Arsenal choose not to go to that level and therefore could no longer compete for the league. 
Their budget was 4th and they consistently achieved 4th.

3 FA cups in that period was not bad. 

Arteta won the FA Cup last season; did that make him a "success", or did it merely paper over the cracks?

Fact is, the English game which AW came into in 1996 and transformed, was unrecognisably bigger and more professional, in every respect, than that which he left in 2018. So that with AW insisting on complete controll of just about every aspect of the club's playing operations, even if he was able to keep up with every new development, at best it meant there was no structure or personnel in place for when he left. And with hindsight, all the evidence suggests he wasn't even keeping up personally.

Of course, you could argue that it wasn't for AW to concern himself about his legacy. But his blind refusal to cede control over any operational matters, plus his legendary status amongst Arsenal fans, allied with his refusal to resign, meant that the Board was reluctant to push him out (at least until the CL gravy train started leaving without them).

Contrast that with Ferguson, who can at least say he left on his own terms and with one final PL trophy in the cabinet, achieved with arguably the worst MU team ever to become champions. After which he stepped up to the Boardroom at OT, without a word of criticism attached to him regarding MU's subsequent struggles.

More successful than any Spurs manager in recent memory anyway Wink

As regards your Ferguson/Wenger comparison, Ferguson was smart enough to realise he wasn't the best coach, so always ensured he had good coaches around him. Whereas Wenger was too stubborn to let anyone else have an influence. Even when Steve Bould was assistant, there was no improvement in the defence.

You're right about the club being in a state of gradual decline for years. But the playing squad isn't that bad by any stretch. Recruitment is a huge issue. Bringing in older players on huge wages is nonsensical, especially when you have a WC winner on your books on massive wages who you can't get rid off, despite your best attempts.
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