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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bob Hoskins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 2019 at 11:41am
Originally posted by colemanY2K colemanY2K wrote:

Originally posted by Gaz Gaz wrote:

Strange that arsenal are so willing to let him go. One of their main players not so long ago and still well able to do a job in the premiership

Nothing strange about it. He wanted his wage to be on a par with Ozils. There was no chance of that happening at Arsenal.

Don't get me wrong, he is a good player but for two many of the big games in the league and champions league when the tough got going he disappeared. 

The fact he will be getting 400k p/w says more about Juventus and their judgement than it does about Arsenal.

Nothing to do with no transfer fee. If they were to buy him they have tp pay 50-60m and pay him so it would normally be more expensive deal than the 80million in wages. 

But still 80 million for four years work - these figures are off the scales these days 


Edited by Bob Hoskins - 12 Feb 2019 at 11:42am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Territorial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 2019 at 1:40pm
Originally posted by colemanY2K colemanY2K wrote:

Originally posted by Gaz Gaz wrote:

Strange that arsenal are so willing to let him go. One of their main players not so long ago and still well able to do a job in the premiership

Nothing strange about it. He wanted his wage to be on a par with Ozils. There was no chance of that happening at Arsenal.

Don't get me wrong, he is a good player but for two many of the big games in the league and champions league when the tough got going he disappeared. 

The fact he will be getting 400k p/w says more about Juventus and their judgement than it does about Arsenal.
Actually it says everything about Arsenal - at least during Wenger's last years in charge. That is, they're letting a valuable player leave on a free, who's approaching his peak years at 28, after having been a decade at the club.
It's the same cackhandedness as saw them lose Wilshere on a free when they could have got a fee several times previously. 
Ditto Sanchez, for whom they got a much inferior swap in Mhikytarian (valued at £30m?), even despite two of the richest clubs in the world being interested.

And if they're not careful, they'll repeat that sequence of screw-ups with Ozil, too. 

Originally posted by Bob Hoskins Bob Hoskins wrote:

Nothing to do with no transfer fee. If they were to buy him they have tp pay 50-60m and pay him so it would normally be more expensive deal than the 80million in wages.
Exactly. Had Arsenal sold him six months ago for, say, £40m, and the player got £200k per week, the cost to Juve would have been just the same and no-one would have thought more of it. 
Though Arsenal would have been better off. Obviously.

Originally posted by Bob Hoskins Bob Hoskins wrote:

But still 80 million for four years work - these figures are off the scales these days
Not at all (imo).

The only real question is whether Juve can afford to pay those wages without going bust. And with their being perennial champions of Italy and all the revenue which that and CL football brings etc, I'd imagine they can.

Assuming so, the real test should be to ask Juve fans which they would prefer: to see this money going back into the club to strengthen the playing squad with signings like Ramsey, or out of the club to strengthen the Agnelli family's bank balance?

(It can hardly be needed to improve facilities etc, since they've not long moved into a new stadium)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Huntacha Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 2019 at 2:10pm
Would agree with you Terri, if there's a chance that a player is going to let his contract run down and leave for free, you should be selling them. Ramsey's case is a curious one as the club took the offer off the table. Surely they would know he could leave for free, especially given the lack of funds available to sign players on a permanent basis, as stated by Emery.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HuntysCousin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 2019 at 2:28pm
Just a point about his wages- the Italian media are saying hes on 240k a week gross. This story about 400k a week seems to be coming from one 'source' and everyone else is is following it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote colemanY2K Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Mar 2019 at 6:33pm
Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Originally posted by colemanY2K colemanY2K wrote:

Originally posted by Gaz Gaz wrote:

Strange that arsenal are so willing to let him go. One of their main players not so long ago and still well able to do a job in the premiership

Nothing strange about it. He wanted his wage to be on a par with Ozils. There was no chance of that happening at Arsenal.

Don't get me wrong, he is a good player but for two many of the big games in the league and champions league when the tough got going he disappeared. 

The fact he will be getting 400k p/w says more about Juventus and their judgement than it does about Arsenal.
Actually it says everything about Arsenal - at least during Wenger's last years in charge. That is, they're letting a valuable player leave on a free, who's approaching his peak years at 28, after having been a decade at the club.
It's the same cackhandedness as saw them lose Wilshere on a free when they could have got a fee several times previously. 
Ditto Sanchez, for whom they got a much inferior swap in Mhikytarian (valued at £30m?), even despite two of the richest clubs in the world being interested.

And if they're not careful, they'll repeat that sequence of screw-ups with Ozil, too. 

Originally posted by Bob Hoskins Bob Hoskins wrote:

Nothing to do with no transfer fee. If they were to buy him they have tp pay 50-60m and pay him so it would normally be more expensive deal than the 80million in wages.
Exactly. Had Arsenal sold him six months ago for, say, £40m, and the player got £200k per week, the cost to Juve would have been just the same and no-one would have thought more of it. 
Though Arsenal would have been better off. Obviously.

Originally posted by Bob Hoskins Bob Hoskins wrote:

But still 80 million for four years work - these figures are off the scales these days
Not at all (imo).

The only real question is whether Juve can afford to pay those wages without going bust. And with their being perennial champions of Italy and all the revenue which that and CL football brings etc, I'd imagine they can.

Assuming so, the real test should be to ask Juve fans which they would prefer: to see this money going back into the club to strengthen the playing squad with signings like Ramsey, or out of the club to strengthen the Agnelli family's bank balance?

(It can hardly be needed to improve facilities etc, since they've not long moved into a new stadium)


We will have to disagree on this one. There is no way of knowing what truly is happening behind the scenes. Who's to say Ramsey had his head turned by the riches of other clubs? I'm sure you'd agree it's very hard to get a player in the final year to sign a contract if he is being promised all sorts of riches by other clubs. Similarly selling a player entering the final year of his contract is no easy task. Both the buying and selling club along with the player and his representatives know exactly who wields what sort of leverage in this situation. Arsenal clearly wanted to keep the player, hence the reason a contract offer was made however for whatever reason the club felt it necessary to withdraw the offer. We simply do not have the full facts to be able to come to a definitive conclusion.

Regarding Ozil we will see what happens. He signed a well publicised extension last year up to summer of 2021. He turns 33 shortly thereafter. I don't think anyone will be surprised if he was to leave in the summer.

Regarding Sanchez and
Mkhitaryan. Sanchez had not performed at an acceptable level at Arsenal in the ~18 months leading up to his transfer. He was a divisive character who regularly threw strops when substituted. In return as you know we received Mkhitaryan, a player who is yes, technically inferior to Sanchez but one who has outperformed Sanchez on the pitch since the respective players transfers (6 goals, 4 assists in 18 matches versus 1 goal, 3 assists in 17 matches). I think its fair to say Arsenal fans are more satisfied with Mkhitaryan than Man United fans are with Sanchez.


Edited by colemanY2K - 04 Mar 2019 at 6:41pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Huntacha Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 2019 at 3:45am
Ye I'd agree on the Sanchez/Mkhitaryan point. It's very tight as both players have made a minimal contribution for both sides, but I think, given the stats, Mkhitaryan has just shaded it. Also, he is starting to show some good form over the last few weeks, so hopefully he can build on this in the remaining games. Sanchez is out injured for the next 6 weeks so you could rule him out of United's challenge for top 4.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Devrozex Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 2019 at 9:29am
Didn't even think there was a discussion to be had on who got the better deal in the Sanchez/Mkhitaryan trade. Mkhitaryan unfortunately has had a few injuries since he moved to Arsenal, but whenever he's been fit he's made a contribution to the team. Sanchez appears very much finished at the top level and has offered United nothing since he arrived. Mkhitaryan also probably has another three or four years at the top left in him. No comparison really.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote colemanY2K Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 2019 at 10:19am

This one is for the nerds amongst us…

 

I have to say I’m very pleased with how this season has gone so far. It wouldn’t have been too hard to beat but the 18/19 season has already exceeded where we were this time last year.

 

After 29 matches the team has won 4 more matches while drawing the same number (6). Ergo the team is currently on 57 points versus the 45 points they were on at this time last season. In fact Arsenal are only 6 points off last season’s total. The club were a shocking 33 points behind the leaders Man City after gameweek 29. This season it’s 14 points.

 

The team has scored 61 with 39 conceded versus 52/41 last season. +22 versus +11.

 

This is best season we’ve had since 2014/15 when we were on the exact same number of points (albeit sitting provisionally in 3rd position that season). You have to go back to the 2010/11 season (over 8 full seasons) to find Arsenal on more points. In that particular season Arsenal were on 59 points and provisionally in 2nd place.

 

Whatever happens from here until the end of the season it has to be said Arsenal have come on leaps and bounds. Obvious flaws exist particularly with the defence but given time I’ve no doubt Emery will rectify those issues.

 

For anyone interested I used this website to look up the above stats: http://www.premierleague.com/tables?co=1&se=79&ha=-1

 



Edited by colemanY2K - 05 Mar 2019 at 10:22am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Territorial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 2019 at 1:09pm
Originally posted by colemanY2K colemanY2K wrote:

We will have to disagree on this one. There is no way of knowing what truly is happening behind the scenes. Who's to say Ramsey had his head turned by the riches of other clubs? I'm sure you'd agree it's very hard to get a player in the final year to sign a contract if he is being promised all sorts of riches by other clubs. Similarly selling a player entering the final year of his contract is no easy task. Both the buying and selling club along with the player and his representatives know exactly who wields what sort of leverage in this situation. Arsenal clearly wanted to keep the player, hence the reason a contract offer was made however for whatever reason the club felt it necessary to withdraw the offer. We simply do not have the full facts to be able to come to a definitive conclusion.
Re Ramsey, once it got to this season, then yes, he held all the aces. 

But my point was that it should never have got this far i.e. they should either have got him to renew his contract long before now, or sold him while he still had value, using the proceeds to sign his replacement. Ditto with Wilshere.
This shows a serious lack of forward planning.

Originally posted by colemanY2K colemanY2K wrote:

Regarding Ozil we will see what happens. He signed a well publicised extension last year up to summer of 2021. He turns 33 shortly thereafter. I don't think anyone will be surprised if he was to leave in the summer. 
There are only two things which can happen. Either he'll hang around like a bad stink, pocketing a huge wage and pissing off the other players, or he'll go for a knockdown price at the time of his own choosing.
Either way, they will not be able to say they got value for their huge outlay (transfer fee and wages), esp considering the guy is/was genuinely world class.

Originally posted by colemanY2K colemanY2K wrote:

Regarding Sanchez and Mkhitaryan. Sanchez had not performed at an acceptable level at Arsenal in the ~18 months leading up to his transfer. He was a divisive character who regularly threw strops when substituted. In return as you know we received Mkhitaryan, a player who is yes, technically inferior to Sanchez but one who has outperformed Sanchez on the pitch since the respective players transfers (6 goals, 4 assists in 18 matches versus 1 goal, 3 assists in 17 matches). I think its fair to say Arsenal fans are more satisfied with Mkhitaryan than Man United fans are with Sanchez.
Yes, Arsenal are getting more out of HM than Man U are out of AS, but only as it turned out.

For part of that was circumstance (injury), part of it was bad management (of AS by Man U) and part sheer good luck for AFC (Man U were desperate to win a mickey-measuring contest with Man C and so offered AS over the top wages to move) .

And in any case, they accepted a very good, but hardly world-class player, whilst losing another who is/was undoubtedly capable of world-class football, if handled properly, which can never be ideal. 

And speaking of "proper handling", maybe AFC should have performed more careful due diligence before they even signed AS? 


Edited by Territorial - 05 Mar 2019 at 1:10pm
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There ya go, Terri!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote colemanY2K Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 2019 at 2:54pm
Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Originally posted by colemanY2K colemanY2K wrote:

We will have to disagree on this one. There is no way of knowing what truly is happening behind the scenes. Who's to say Ramsey had his head turned by the riches of other clubs? I'm sure you'd agree it's very hard to get a player in the final year to sign a contract if he is being promised all sorts of riches by other clubs. Similarly selling a player entering the final year of his contract is no easy task. Both the buying and selling club along with the player and his representatives know exactly who wields what sort of leverage in this situation. Arsenal clearly wanted to keep the player, hence the reason a contract offer was made however for whatever reason the club felt it necessary to withdraw the offer. We simply do not have the full facts to be able to come to a definitive conclusion.
Re Ramsey, once it got to this season, then yes, he held all the aces. 

But my point was that it should never have got this far i.e. they should either have got him to renew his contract long before now, or sold him while he still had value, using the proceeds to sign his replacement. Ditto with Wilshere.
This shows a serious lack of forward planning.

Originally posted by colemanY2K colemanY2K wrote:

Regarding Ozil we will see what happens. He signed a well publicised extension last year up to summer of 2021. He turns 33 shortly thereafter. I don't think anyone will be surprised if he was to leave in the summer. 
There are only two things which can happen. Either he'll hang around like a bad stink, pocketing a huge wage and pissing off the other players, or he'll go for a knockdown price at the time of his own choosing.
Either way, they will not be able to say they got value for their huge outlay (transfer fee and wages), esp considering the guy is/was genuinely world class.

Originally posted by colemanY2K colemanY2K wrote:

Regarding Sanchez and Mkhitaryan. Sanchez had not performed at an acceptable level at Arsenal in the ~18 months leading up to his transfer. He was a divisive character who regularly threw strops when substituted. In return as you know we received Mkhitaryan, a player who is yes, technically inferior to Sanchez but one who has outperformed Sanchez on the pitch since the respective players transfers (6 goals, 4 assists in 18 matches versus 1 goal, 3 assists in 17 matches). I think its fair to say Arsenal fans are more satisfied with Mkhitaryan than Man United fans are with Sanchez.
Yes, Arsenal are getting more out of HM than Man U are out of AS, but only as it turned out.

For part of that was circumstance (injury), part of it was bad management (of AS by Man U) and part sheer good luck for AFC (Man U were desperate to win a mickey-measuring contest with Man C and so offered AS over the top wages to move) .

And in any case, they accepted a very good, but hardly world-class player, whilst losing another who is/was undoubtedly capable of world-class football, if handled properly, which can never be ideal. 

And speaking of "proper handling", maybe AFC should have performed more careful due diligence before they even signed AS? 
 
But what two key things have all those contractual issues you brought up have in common? *Gazidis* and *Wenger*, both of whom are no longer at the club. Those two in their wisdom were responsible for the policy which ran down players contracts. Subsequent to Arsenal withdrawing Ramsey's contract the new head of football, Raul Sanllehi, put on record his intention to depart from that particular policy. He went on to say going forward his intention was to resolve players contractual issues one way or another before the player entered their final year. 
 
We will see what happens regarding Ozil. As I said previously I wouldn't be surprised if he were to leave in the summer.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Territorial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 2019 at 4:40pm
Originally posted by colemanY2K colemanY2K wrote:

But what two key things have all those contractual issues you brought up have in common? *Gazidis* and *Wenger*, both of whom are no longer at the club. Those two in their wisdom were responsible for the policy which ran down players contracts.
Absolutely. 

I would expect the new hierarchy, plus Emery, to handle these things much better. Unfortunately.

P.S. Also forgot about Oxlade Chamberlain. If it is correct that he was prepared to take a pay cut to join Liverpool (unsure), then that really is an indictment of the old regime. Fit, on form and motivated, a midfield able to include Ozil, Sanchez, Wilshere and The Ox would have been a match for any.

Originally posted by colemanY2K colemanY2K wrote:

We will see what happens regarding Ozil. As I said previously I wouldn't be surprised if he were to leave in the summer.
You could be right.

But considering his age and likely wage demands from a new club etc, I doubt AFC would get that much for him. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Territorial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 2019 at 6:08pm
Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Fit, on form and motivated, a midfield able to include Ozil, Sanchez, Wilshere and The Ox would have been a match for any.
Oh, and forgot Ramsey too, of course. Embarrassed
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Huntacha Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 2019 at 7:20pm
Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Fit, on form and motivated, a midfield able to include Ozil, Sanchez, Wilshere and The Ox would have been a match for any.
Oh, and forgot Ramsey too, of course. Embarrassed

Would be a very unbalanced midfield, capable of brilliant attacking moments with no defensive inclinations between the 5 of them.

Interesting stats there CY2K, the progress seems a lot slower than those stats portray, mainly due to the league position. Definitely gives you cause for optimism if Emery and the board can get the transfers right over the next couple of seasons.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote colemanY2K Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 2019 at 7:52pm
Originally posted by The Huntacha The Huntacha wrote:

Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Fit, on form and motivated, a midfield able to include Ozil, Sanchez, Wilshere and The Ox would have been a match for any.
Oh, and forgot Ramsey too, of course. Embarrassed

Would be a very unbalanced midfield, capable of brilliant attacking moments with no defensive inclinations between the 5 of them.

Interesting stats there CY2K, the progress seems a lot slower than those stats portray, mainly due to the league position. Definitely gives you cause for optimism if Emery and the board can get the transfers right over the next couple of seasons.
Spot on, I get that feeling as well from other Arsenal fans. However, after 29 matches the 57 points we are on now would have had us in the top four for 8 of the last 10 seasons.

I reckon it could be the fact that we haven't been above 4th spot this season. If we were in the race up to January I reckon people's opinion would be different.

The match on Sunday is enormous for Arsenal's season. The fixture list after the match on Sunday is relatively kind. Should Arsenal get 3 points on Sunday I wouldn't rule out finishing 3rd.


Edited by colemanY2K - 06 Mar 2019 at 8:01pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote colemanY2K Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 2019 at 6:57pm
Originally posted by colemanY2K colemanY2K wrote:

Originally posted by The Huntacha The Huntacha wrote:

Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Fit, on form and motivated, a midfield able to include Ozil, Sanchez, Wilshere and The Ox would have been a match for any.
Oh, and forgot Ramsey too, of course. Embarrassed

Would be a very unbalanced midfield, capable of brilliant attacking moments with no defensive inclinations between the 5 of them.

Interesting stats there CY2K, the progress seems a lot slower than those stats portray, mainly due to the league position. Definitely gives you cause for optimism if Emery and the board can get the transfers right over the next couple of seasons.
Spot on, I get that feeling as well from other Arsenal fans. However, after 29 matches the 57 points we are on now would have had us in the top four for 8 of the last 10 seasons.

I reckon it could be the fact that we haven't been above 4th spot this season. If we were in the race up to January I reckon people's opinion would be different.

***********The match on Sunday is enormous for Arsenal's season. The fixture list after the match on Sunday is relatively kind. Should Arsenal get 3 points on Sunday I wouldn't rule out finishing 3rd.***********

Huuuuuuge win that was Clap

The race for third nevermind 4th is on. Arsenal's remaining fixtures:

Wolves, Newcastle, Everton, Watford, Crystal Palace, Leicester, Brighton, Burnley.

Spurs still have to go to Liverpool and City. United have City and Chelsea still to play albeit at OT.

It's going to be tough but it's within our grasp.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eireland Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 2019 at 3:29am
I think arsenal are the only top 6 team that doesn't have to play 2 other top 6 teams in the remaining fixtures. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Huntacha Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 2019 at 4:10am
With those remaining fixtures, there's no reason Arsenal can't get 3rd or 4th. But you wouldn't put it past them to mess up again.

Only 3 points off last season's total so this season has definitely been an improvement. Didn't think there was any chance of CL football next season but this improvement, and other teams inconsistencies have made it a realistic possibility. 

It would be a successful first season if they finished in the top 4.
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