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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eoink21 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2023 at 12:19pm
Originally posted by You Tell Me You Tell Me wrote:

The Moran situation is different for a number of reasons.

Firstly, unlike many of the instances above, Moran is not an established senior squad player. In fact he had never been with the seniors before this window.

Secondly, he was the main man in the Under 21 team. Not a centre back, where we tend to have loads of decent options, or a full back or whatever. 

Thirdly, the two senior games this month literally couldn't have been less important. A dead rubber and a friendly under a manager about to be deservedly shown the door. 

And finally, to top it off, having pulled him out of the Under 21s for the Norway game, he didn't even play him in the Netherlands.

There may be previous cases where one or two of the above was applicable, but not all four. So no, not just a stick to beat him with, but yet another valid addition to what is at this stage a lengthy charge sheet.

My issue with the Moran call up was that I believe he did it to quieten a bit of the clamour for his inclusion and to help point towards his record of calling up young players. He can point all he likes to the caps he has given out but he didn't give Moran one and went with safer options like McGrath and Robinson and Idah against Netherlands. It just feels like it was a stunt and a desperate one from a desperate man. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cabra Hoop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2023 at 12:28pm
Kenny keeps banging about bringing in new players.....what else was he going to do when the players he inherited were over the hill ? Poor form trying to make a virtue for the doing the bleeding obvious.
" BFC always gives me a laugh........ "
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gaz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2023 at 12:30pm
Originally posted by Badgersboys9 Badgersboys9 wrote:

Originally posted by Gaz Gaz wrote:

Originally posted by Badgersboys9 Badgersboys9 wrote:

The hypocrisy on here is baffling. There's not a chance that posters on here have, in the past, been calling for players deemed good enough for the seniors to stay with the U21s for qualifying campaigns. 

The only time I've seen it was when someone hasn't been playing club football and should drop down to the U21s like its some form of punishment.

When an important U-21 game is on versus an absolute dead rubber for the senior team I'd always prefer the U-21's to keep their strongest players where possible. Especially considering Moran didn't even get 1 minute on the pitch
If that's your opinion and I've no reason to doubt you, that's fair enough. I'm of a different opinion and just pointing out that we haven't seen the same outcry with previous instances, and there has been the same previous instances in the past. A lot of people are jumping on it(not yourself) for the sole purpose of criticising Kenny.

Yeah no bother at all. I had the same opinion in the past when (I think) Connolly and possibly Parrot were in a similar position at different times. If it was a meaningful senior game or if the lads were being called up to play a significant part of the match my opinion would of course be different, but solely looking at this situation I think Moran should have stayed with the 21's 
I dont email the count anymore, its been 9 months : ( He even sent me a YBIG scarf for my Birthday
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shakeyshamrock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2023 at 1:20pm
All this conveniently ignores that the U21s had more that enough to win the game without Moran and that there is absolutely zero guarantee him being there would have prevented Crawford making the poor decisions that resulted in us losing. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Greenie50 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2023 at 1:32pm
Originally posted by Gaz Gaz wrote:

Originally posted by Badgersboys9 Badgersboys9 wrote:

The hypocrisy on here is baffling. There's not a chance that posters on here have, in the past, been calling for players deemed good enough for the seniors to stay with the U21s for qualifying campaigns. 

The only time I've seen it was when someone hasn't been playing club football and should drop down to the U21s like its some form of punishment.


When an important U-21 game is on versus an absolute dead rubber for the senior team I'd always prefer the U-21's to keep their strongest players where possible. Especially considering Moran didn't even get 1 minute on the pitch


When the senior team is in the middle of a giant rebuild & is in dire need of bodies then I would prefer that issue be treated as Priority #1 and sorted out as quickly as possible. U21s qualifying, while it would be nice, pales in comparison to actually sorting out the seniors.

It's not something that can be fixed over night, it takes time, literally 2-3 years to get a player up to 15-20 caps, so saying "well there's 4 friendlies in March/June he can come in then" is just kicking the can down the road when you can get the process started now. It's very unlucky he got injured last month.

People are bringing up Italy & Israel dropping players back down to their U21s, but I'd wager neither of those teams are in the middle of rebuilds.

As for Moran himself it would be actually be unfair on him to have him play for the U21s then go with the seniors for what would only be 1 training session & then expect him to perform vs NZ. He's better off getting the full week to settle in & get to know everyone, that gives him the best chance to impress when he does play.

Beyond that, he's one of our High Potential players, playing in a position we're light in, playing in the same League that most of our squad is in & doing well there. He's in on merit.



Originally posted by shakeyshamrock shakeyshamrock wrote:

All this conveniently ignores that the U21s had more that enough to win the game without Moran and that there is absolutely zero guarantee him being there would have prevented Crawford making the poor decisions that resulted in us losing. 


Bingo.


Edited by Greenie50 - 21 Nov 2023 at 1:33pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horsebox Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2023 at 1:48pm
The rebuild is over. Kenny's disastrous tenure is over.
It was far across the sea,
When the devil got a hold of me,
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So he kept me soul for ransom.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baldrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2023 at 1:51pm
I think regarding Moran these are marginal enough calls yet people treat them as if they are sackable offences and go to town about.  Posters on here have basically justified with conviction of both approaches and there is an argument for both.  

Things I look out for in a manager is flip flopping and not being consistent. To me that sends out indecision to the players.  I think Kenny bringing Duffy back and not going with the younger centre back and getting caught for it against Holland. I would blame Kenny for that not Duffy. I think the lack of consistency of
Thought with Kenny has been his undoing to be honest.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Greenie50 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2023 at 2:50pm
Originally posted by horsebox horsebox wrote:

The rebuild is over. Kenny's disastrous tenure is over.


You cant see the forest for the trees. You hate Kenny so much it blinds you to the very real problems in the player pool, problems that are the same regardless of who is in charge.

The manager is irrelevant; the rebuild will continue.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horsebox Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2023 at 2:53pm
Originally posted by Greenie50 Greenie50 wrote:

Originally posted by horsebox horsebox wrote:

The rebuild is over. Kenny's disastrous tenure is over.


You cant see the forest for the trees. You hate Kenny so much it blinds you to the very real problems in the player pool, problems that are the same regardless of who is in charge.

The manager is irrelevant; the rebuild will continue.

I've supported Kenny since day 1. 

Kenny brought through 24 players but he never delivered.

This is his last game. It's time we move on.
It was far across the sea,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Greenie50 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2023 at 2:58pm
Originally posted by horsebox horsebox wrote:

Originally posted by Greenie50 Greenie50 wrote:

Originally posted by horsebox horsebox wrote:

The rebuild is over. Kenny's disastrous tenure is over.


You cant see the forest for the trees. You hate Kenny so much it blinds you to the very real problems in the player pool, problems that are the same regardless of who is in charge.

The manager is irrelevant; the rebuild will continue.

I've supported Kenny since day 1. 

Kenny brought through 24 players but he never delivered.

This is his last game. It's time we move on.


Confused What?

We are moving on. The manager is irrelevant, the rebuild will continue because that's the cycle the squad is still going through. What is unclear about that?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stickittotheman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2023 at 3:30pm
Originally posted by Greenie50 Greenie50 wrote:

Originally posted by horsebox horsebox wrote:

The rebuild is over. Kenny's disastrous tenure is over.


You cant see the forest for the trees. You hate Kenny so much it blinds you to the very real problems in the player pool, problems that are the same regardless of who is in charge.

The manager is irrelevant; the rebuild will continue.

People's perception of the talent pool has always been fairly realistic. A lot of the criticism of Kenny has been that he has been overly focused on a style of play instead of looking at his resources and planning appropriately. We do not have the players to be aesthetically pleasing and also achieve success. We have a limited team where we need to be pragmatic and play to the strengths which is hard working, physically strong and be difficult to beat that way.
Walters coming back from an offside position but Shane Long was definitely onside- Shane Lonnggggggg.... has done it!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GaretFarellysNutSack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2023 at 5:16pm
Looking at some of the results around Europe we really are going in the wrong direction. Georgia have that Napoli guy, the Georgian Messi, and another guy in the Shaktar team that beat Barcelona recently. 
Luxembourg, Kazakhstan almost qualifying, Albania qualifying, it seems there are so many teams improving that we would always have been ahead of in the past. Scotland look like a great team at the moment. 
Whoever inherits this mess is going to have a hell of a job, we've a really bad squad, all hopes on a kid playing for Blackburn and Ferguson, who hopefully turns out to be who we want to be, but we really are f**king sh*te. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fitz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2023 at 5:57pm
Originally posted by Cabra Hoop Cabra Hoop wrote:

Kenny keeps banging about bringing in new players.....what else was he going to do when the players he inherited were over the hill ? Poor form trying to make a virtue for the doing the bleeding obvious.



He had little or nothing else to brag about so he picked this and repeated it ad nauseam. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Newryrep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2023 at 6:14pm
Similar to most supported him from day 1 but he lost me after Greece away as the players clearly weren’t buying what he was selling 

He certainly didn’t want to fail and tried his best but it wasn’t ti be

May have been a few sliding door moments - if we had held on ti an away win v Portugal , equaliser v France home penalty shoot out win if my auntie had balls etc 

It didn’t just work out 


Edited by Newryrep - 21 Nov 2023 at 6:15pm
'Irish' Songs for an Irish team - no SPL EPL generic sh*te
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trap junior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2023 at 7:33pm
I'm sorry but Kenny is a fcuking ham.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baldrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2023 at 8:14pm
Originally posted by Newryrep Newryrep wrote:

Similar to most supported him from day 1 but he lost me after Greece away as the players clearly weren’t buying what he was selling 

He certainly didn’t want to fail and tried his best but it wasn’t ti be

May have been a few sliding door moments - if we had held on ti an away win v Portugal , equaliser v France home penalty shoot out win if my auntie had balls etc 

It didn’t just work out 

Well said.  He loses his job and we move on and hopefully get a manager that brings us success.  More important our young players start to play at a high level regularly. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SeanC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2023 at 8:25pm
Originally posted by Badgersboys9 Badgersboys9 wrote:

The hypocrisy on here is baffling. There's not a chance that posters on here have, in the past, been calling for players deemed good enough for the seniors to stay with the U21s for qualifying campaigns. 

The only time I've seen it was when someone hasn't been playing club football and should drop down to the U21s like its some form of punishment.


But I think the point is these two senior games were complete dead rubbers, as meaning less as it gets considering the manager isn’t even staying around. If the new manager is in place I could totally see the point of Moran moving up as part of a new group. I.e. If these were in any way important/ relevant games no one is arguing for Moran to stay with u-21s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baldrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2023 at 9:37pm
Best of luck Stephen. 
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