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Davey Langan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bandwagon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Oct 2021 at 12:39am
Originally posted by Strazdas Strazdas wrote:

A big problem with the earlier SK teams is that, yes, we were trying to play passing football but were doing it in the wrong areas, not creating much and even looking quite shaky at the back.

What seems to have changed recently is we look much more positive and creative and are very good in the final third of the pitch - the earlier teams looked goal shy and rarely tested the keeper. Noticeable too that chances are coming just as much from open play, not just set pieces.


The current formation is by far our most effective with the players we have available but we were still creating plenty of chances playing 4-3-3 too. Enough to win games had we taken our chances.

One big difference was an out for form Duffy at the back, himself and Egan had a very shakey start under Kenny at the back the coincided with Duffys worst period at Celtic. It also impacted the threat he poses from headers in the box. I know he scored one against Bulgaria in the Nations League, but there were probably 2 dozen other chances in the games that he ballooned over or wide that you'd have banked on him at least getting on target if not scoring one or two more.

Another big difference was his over reliance on McCarthy, Brady, Arter and Hendrick. He bigged all these players up in interviews leading up to his time in charge and the period surrounding the Nations League. That he firmly believed he could get them all back to their best for us. I think he put far too much of an emphasis on being able to pull it off and it couldnt have gone much worse.

What he had pictured in his head for months leading up to taking over and trying to implement it and make it come to fruition just didn't happen and he needed to go back to the drawing board.

As I said, 3-4-2-1 has proven to be very effective in creating chances. Hes also got an in form Duffy back and flashes off the old Jeff Hendrick. Cullen has found his feet at this level and has replaced McCarthy better than most could have anticipated. Coleman is back to his best when fit. Doherty has finally shown an interest in playing for us. Hes got his creative spark in midfield with McGrath. But most importantly he has found a goalscorer who knows where the back of the net is. Up to this point nobody knew where to play Robo. Hes played 7,10 and 11 but rarely a 9. No doubt where hes suited to.

Not to mention the intigrated and blooding of Bazunu, Kelleher, O'Shea, Omobamidele, Collins, Knight, Ogbene, Idah, Parrott, Connolly.

It took awhile but its all just begining to come together.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TooOldForThis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Oct 2021 at 9:02am
Originally posted by E2016 E2016 wrote:

Originally posted by kearney304 kearney304 wrote:

Originally posted by E2016 E2016 wrote:

Originally posted by Mr. Snrub Mr. Snrub wrote:

Everyone at the game on Tuesday is fully behind Kenny and we have been good to watch since the summer. When is the last time we sold out a friendly? Kenny is the right man for the job and better days will come.

The thoughts of sacking Kenny and going back to route one bogball is going to undo all the hard work over the past 18 months. Rome wasn't built in a day and there are so many clear signs of progression.


There were boo's after the game against Azerbaijan - a game we certainly weren't good to watch in. A few days later Serbia should have put 4 or 5 past us, not great to watch either. I was pleased with the Serbia result but why do people continually need to rewrite history with Kenny?

As for the progression - sure the last two games have been very good, but have there been 'so many clear signs of progression'? Is two games enough to point to and say that everything is finally coming to fruition?

If Portugal put a few goals past us and we lose to Luxembourg after, nobody is going to give two sh*ts about a friendly v Qatar. The conversation looks a lot different then. Hopefully we are finally on the upward curve with Kenny, but to act like it's been obvious for months, or that he needs to be given a new contract now - is absolutely bizarre stuff. Lets wait and see.

What is bizarre is this post. It's the glass half full or empty debate.

Your questions are laughable and clearly you haven't watched games. 

I personally saw signs of progression away in Slovakia for the play off, we missed some chances and ultimately did enough to at least force extra time if not win the game. Add in that the prep was hampered by COVID, key players pulling out & the fact we couldn't travel in our thousands to support the lads really didn't help us, in fact he was unlucky.

He has played virtually all his games without fans - not a factor for a sh*te country but a massive factor for us when we travel in numbers and sell out our home ground. 

We travelled to Portugal - 7th best ranked team in the world FYI and had tactics. We had a game plan, gave it a go & should have won. At the very least held on for a draw. Did we ride our luck a bit? Of course we did but that's expected. Winning was never expected.

He has brought through how many players? Removed a lot of dead wood. Players like Hendrick & Duffy are almost like new players while he showed everyone that Coleman and Doherty can play together.

It takes time and patience but to say there hasn't been progress is baffling. Either you're blind or just read stuff on Twitter after every game and then post drivel.

The man is perfect for the job, he knows about the Irish set up, he knows about LOI and you know what - he knows football. Put some respect on the change in our setup and play. 663 passes the other night @ 92% accuracy.


Laughable? - your response barely makes a lick of sense.

We followed up that Slovakia result with a series of woeful performances and results so whatever progress there was in that game was short lived.

Which 'deadwood' did he remove exactly?

"without fans - not a factor for a sh*te country but a massive factor for us when we travel in numbers and sell out our home ground." - This is unquantifiable nonsense, plenty of international teams enjoy strong home and away support.

"Players like Hendrick & Duffy are almost like new players" - Hendrick is absolutely a fair point given he isn't up to much at club level, but are you actually crediting Shane Duffys resurrection to Kenny? His club manager who trains him day in day out had nothing to do with it?

"while he showed everyone that Coleman and Doherty can play together." - Coleman and Doherty started together twice under Kenny. We lost both games - yes they did well v Portugal but the other defeat was the home defeat to Luxembourg. That's conclusive alright - literally making my point for me about the hyperbolic praise afforded to Kenny. 

"he knows about the Irish set up" - His knowledge of Irish players compared to his predecessors is certainly better so yeah, credit for that - I'm not sure if that is what you meant by set up.
"he knows about LOI" - How is that even remotely relevant when he doesn't call up any player in it? LOL

"and you know what - he knows football." - I expect many Dunfermline and Rovers fans disagree with that.

"663 passes the other night @ 92% accuracy." - We played some very nice football the other night, it was just one night in a friendly vs a poor side. We also created lots of chances v Azerbaijan. Hopefully we can maintain that level or close to it. Lets see how we do going forward.

Your post is so over the top about Kenny it's ridiculous - completely blind to any failure and completely hyperbolic regarding any success. He has had challenges with Covid like every other international manager. He has brought through some players, absolutely. He has also presided over many poor performances and even poorer results.

The most recent two games were extremely positive and welcome - however it might be worth just waiting to see whether that standard will be maintained going forward. Lets see if we finish off the group strongly, and if we do I don't think there would be anybody begrudging him a crack at Euro 2024.
The reality is that a loss to Portugal and a failure to beat Luxembourg, then the narrative swings again. When you are winning you're safe. But hopefully something has changed, we've had a few false dawns previously. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kearney304 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Oct 2021 at 9:22am
He literally called up Jamie McGrath - that was a result of knowing the Irish league Ermm

Who else would have pulled him in? 

A friendly v a poor side? They're ranked higher than us and Asia champions.

Duffy is of course down to both managers but he could have been dropped and left out etc - he wasn't - and he was trusted by Kenny including with the armband.

To say no fans hasn't impacted us is just nonsense.

It's just hard with lads like yourself but anyways. This forum is toxic.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote You Tell Me Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Oct 2021 at 9:36am
Originally posted by kearney304 kearney304 wrote:

He literally called up Jamie McGrath - that was a result of knowing the Irish league Ermm

Jim Goodwin has publicly said that he had to convince Kenny that McGrath had improved significantly since his LoI days so that he'd call him in. So he was effectively called up in spite of Kenny knowing the League of Ireland, not because of it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gongman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Oct 2021 at 9:55am
Goodwin quote on Jamie

"I didn't have to convince Stephen Kenny too much about Jamie getting into the squad and I did say to Stephen a couple of seasons ago that Jamie isn't the player that he was when he was at Dundalk. I've felt he's took his game to a whole new level and sometimes it's hard to convince somebody who's worked with him so closely to change their opinion on him and I'm glad Stephen's included him and I thought Jamie was absolutely brilliant against Portugal and he was outstanding in fact.

https://www.rte.ie/s/soccer/2021/1007/1252383-jim-goodwin/ - https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2021/1007/1252383-jim-goodwin/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote E2016 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Oct 2021 at 10:03am
Originally posted by kearney304 kearney304 wrote:

He literally called up Jamie McGrath - that was a result of knowing the Irish league Ermm

Who else would have pulled him in? 

A friendly v a poor side? They're ranked higher than us and Asia champions.

Duffy is of course down to both managers but he could have been dropped and left out etc - he wasn't - and he was trusted by Kenny including with the armband.

To say no fans hasn't impacted us is just nonsense.

It's just hard with lads like yourself but anyways. This forum is toxic.


I don't know how you can claim a manager who called up a player in Scotland is evidence of him knowing the LOI. It's like saying because Trappatoni called up Coleman and McClean, and both had previously played LOI - that Trap knew about the LOI.

There is definitely an argument to be made in support of Kenny regarding calling him up and starting him is something another manager would not have done - although what he was doing was not working, moreso than any manager we have ever had, and he needed to try something different.

You're hardly trying to claim that Qatar are a good side, please. We did well, absolutely - some of the play we put together was among the best we have seen in years - but why pretend that Qatar are better than they are? You can be happy with a performance and acknowledge the oppositions weakness at the same time.

"Duffy is of course down to both managers but he could have been dropped and left out etc - he wasn't" - More rewriting of Kenny history. Shane Duffy was dropped for us. He was dropped for the two qualifiers in March.

"To say no fans hasn't impacted us is just nonsense." - If you'd like to point out where I said that, then please, by all means. My point was that every international team has had to deal with Covid, including the disruption with players and the loss of fans.My issue was with you claiming that we were more affected than other teams - based on nothing. I don't know how you can claim that having no fans affected us more than any other team - as I said before, plenty of international teams have strong support. To act like Kenny was almost solely affected by this stuff isn't reality. Having no fans did impact us, it impacted most nations.

"It's just hard with lads like yourself but anyways. This forum is toxic." - Unless a person is relentlessly, blindly positive towards Stephen Kenny then they are toxic on here. Or if they don't accept history being rewritten to support a narrative that wasn't there - toxic. It's a forum. People debate issues. People have differing opinions. Occasionally people get passionate about those opinions because ultimately everybody wants to see Ireland succeed, and people have differing opinions about how we do that. Writing off discussion by saying X or Y is toxic because they don't agree with your opinion - well why post at all?

The last two performances were very good - one of them featured a ton of chances created and the other was the best we have played in years. While acnowledging that, it's normal to take into account the other games under Stephen Kenny which were often poor, and it is worth just taking the standard of opposition into account. If we continue on this trajectory (of just 2 games) then yes, the future is looking bright, Kenny will get the Euros - however maybe we should just wait and see how the campaign finishes off.


Edited by E2016 - 15 Oct 2021 at 10:04am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 9fingers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Oct 2021 at 10:05am
The 20% sure make enough noise! Bar in the stadium etc obviously 

Edited by 9fingers - 15 Oct 2021 at 10:06am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote E2016 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Oct 2021 at 10:09am
Originally posted by 9fingers 9fingers wrote:

The 20% sure make enough noise! Bar in the stadium etc obviously 


Well there were boos after the Azerbaijan match. Wink

And if you're referring to me then I'm happy to see Kenny get the Euros depending on how the final two group games go.

Although I'll have to say my 10 hail Marys now because I said something not over the top positive about Kenny.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Nice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Oct 2021 at 10:24am
What I find amusing is the double standard when people revert to world rankings and say oh we should be beating them e.g. Luxembourg, then when we beat a team ranked higher than us i.e. Qatar - it's all oh they are a poor side, rankings are wrong etc. Fwiw I think Qatar and Luxembourg are of similar ability despite the 50 place difference in the rankings.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 9fingers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Oct 2021 at 10:24am
Originally posted by E2016 E2016 wrote:

Originally posted by 9fingers 9fingers wrote:

The 20% sure make enough noise! Bar in the stadium etc obviously 


Well there were boos after the Azerbaijan match. Wink

And if you're referring to me then I'm happy to see Kenny get the Euros depending on how the final two group games go.

Although I'll have to say my 10 hail Marys now because I said something not over the top positive about Kenny.
I’m talking about the endless negative drivel posted here by a small minority, and I’m sure it was a small minority booing against Azerbaijan too. 
People criticizing SK is fine, I’ve done it plenty here, last Saturday for example in the first 45 we were wide open & playing quite poorly despite being 2 up. 
It’s just the constant sh*te from the same posters, rehashing the same nonsense. 
As I said yesterday if it’s not results it’s performances, if it’s not performances it’s results, if it’s neither it’s his wages. Then you have his accent etc. 
it’s repetitive, it’s mostly nonsense, it doesn’t speak for the large majority of posters and it has ruined this thread. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TooOldForThis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Oct 2021 at 10:36am
Do people want Kenny out based on his Dublin accent? That's a new one to me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote E2016 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Oct 2021 at 10:47am
The wages one was a bollocks point. 

I dont think there can be any real issue with people wanting results. Especially against some of the teams we have played. He needs to win more games than he has done, that cant be under question - putting 2 wins together is very promising going forward, now we need to see it backed up.

The performances one is a lot more nuanced. It isn't black and white. 
Stephen kenny promised good football so it is something to hold him accountable for when it isnt happening. However against good teams then the performance isnt really important if we are getting a result. 

A lot of this comes back to a comment about Serbia and someone saying we played well in it. We didnt. I was happy with the result v Serbia - it's not something to be critical of the manager for. But rewriting it as saying we played well when we didnt, is something that happens a lot here. It's fine that we didnt play that well, we got a result and that was the most important thing. We showed good characteristics such as doggedness and resiliance. 

It is going around in circles though, I'm part of that and I agree - for my part I'll wait until after the next set of games for more comment. At that point he will have had the full campaign and it will be a good time to evaluate him.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TooOldForThis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Oct 2021 at 11:10am
Originally posted by E2016 E2016 wrote:

The wages one was a bollocks point. 

I dont think there can be any real issue with people wanting results. Especially against some of the teams we have played. He needs to win more games than he has done, that cant be under question - putting 2 wins together is very promising going forward, now we need to see it backed up.

The performances one is a lot more nuanced. It isn't black and white. 
Stephen kenny promised good football so it is something to hold him accountable for when it isnt happening. However against good teams then the performance isnt really important if we are getting a result. 

A lot of this comes back to a comment about Serbia and someone saying we played well in it. We didnt. I was happy with the result v Serbia - it's not something to be critical of the manager for. But rewriting it as saying we played well when we didnt, is something that happens a lot here. It's fine that we didnt play that well, we got a result and that was the most important thing. We showed good characteristics such as doggedness and resiliance. 

It is going around in circles though, I'm part of that and I agree - for my part I'll wait until after the next set of games for more comment. At that point he will have had the full campaign and it will be a good time to evaluate him.

Apparently though, waiting until the end of the campaign before assessing SK, is a dastardly ploy by the Kenny out brigade (i.e. the 20%), because they hope we lose to Luxembourg and ensuring his exit!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mr. Snrub Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Oct 2021 at 11:15am
If you look at the campaign as whole we've performed ok in the majority of games. We were unlucky in Serbia, 1-0 up and denied a clear cut penalty. Travers was then caught out from Mitrovic and Clark was poor that night but overall we deserved a point. The Luxembourg game was admittedly very poor where we passed the ball around the back with zero conviction going forward. I still think a point was probably the fair result. This game was the turning point for Kenny. Performances started to improve over the summer as new players McGrath, Kelleher, Bazunu, Ogbene, Parrott, Omobamidele and formations were implemented. We knocked 4 past Andorra and should have beaten Hungary in the following fixture.

Portugal away was the match where Kenny's bravery and tactical nous came to the fore. Let's face it, we were robbed of another penalty and deserved at least a draw that night. We caused them a lot of problems to be undone by one of the greatest players of all time. Azerbijan at home was a disappointing night where we struggled to break down 10 men behind the ball. Despite having plenty of chances we couldn't find the net. We rode our luck against Serbia but spirit, dogedness and a brilliant Bazunu display earned us a point.

Last week was the real turning point where we finally looked like a team creating numerous chances from open play as well as being dangerous from set pieces. Hendrick, Duffy & McClean are playing their best stuff for Ireland in years. Cullen has been the real find of the campaign along with Robinson, McGrath, Omobamidele & Bazunu. The football was a joy to watch at times albeit against lesser opposition (Qatar are Asian champions mind you) and the other night felt like a buzz was back in the Aviva. Kenny hasn't had much luck so far with injuries, COVID positives and no fans over his 18 month tenure. Hopefully that luck is turning and we need to follow it up with 2 big performances next month. There has clearly been a massive overhaul on the training pitch and with Dean Kiely & Anthony Barry having positive influences. This follows years of no tactics, bogball and a lack of creativity. Let's go and finish 3rd, ybig!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Claret Murph Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Oct 2021 at 12:01pm
Originally posted by TooOldForThis TooOldForThis wrote:

Originally posted by E2016 E2016 wrote:

The wages one was a bollocks point. 

I dont think there can be any real issue with people wanting results. Especially against some of the teams we have played. He needs to win more games than he has done, that cant be under question - putting 2 wins together is very promising going forward, now we need to see it backed up.

The performances one is a lot more nuanced. It isn't black and white. 
Stephen kenny promised good football so it is something to hold him accountable for when it isnt happening. However against good teams then the performance isnt really important if we are getting a result. 

A lot of this comes back to a comment about Serbia and someone saying we played well in it. We didnt. I was happy with the result v Serbia - it's not something to be critical of the manager for. But rewriting it as saying we played well when we didnt, is something that happens a lot here. It's fine that we didnt play that well, we got a result and that was the most important thing. We showed good characteristics such as doggedness and resiliance. 

It is going around in circles though, I'm part of that and I agree - for my part I'll wait until after the next set of games for more comment. At that point he will have had the full campaign and it will be a good time to evaluate him.

Apparently though, waiting until the end of the campaign before assessing SK, is a dastardly ploy by the Kenny out brigade (i.e. the 20%), because they hope we lose to Luxembourg and ensuring his exit!
How many people have told you that they hope Ireland lose so Kenny will be sacked ?
 
To say i am not a Kenny fan would be a understatement , but i hope he wins every game while he is in charge of Ireland .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TooOldForThis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Oct 2021 at 12:13pm
Originally posted by Claret Murph Claret Murph wrote:

Originally posted by TooOldForThis TooOldForThis wrote:

Originally posted by E2016 E2016 wrote:

The wages one was a bollocks point. 

I dont think there can be any real issue with people wanting results. Especially against some of the teams we have played. He needs to win more games than he has done, that cant be under question - putting 2 wins together is very promising going forward, now we need to see it backed up.

The performances one is a lot more nuanced. It isn't black and white. 
Stephen kenny promised good football so it is something to hold him accountable for when it isnt happening. However against good teams then the performance isnt really important if we are getting a result. 

A lot of this comes back to a comment about Serbia and someone saying we played well in it. We didnt. I was happy with the result v Serbia - it's not something to be critical of the manager for. But rewriting it as saying we played well when we didnt, is something that happens a lot here. It's fine that we didnt play that well, we got a result and that was the most important thing. We showed good characteristics such as doggedness and resiliance. 

It is going around in circles though, I'm part of that and I agree - for my part I'll wait until after the next set of games for more comment. At that point he will have had the full campaign and it will be a good time to evaluate him.

Apparently though, waiting until the end of the campaign before assessing SK, is a dastardly ploy by the Kenny out brigade (i.e. the 20%), because they hope we lose to Luxembourg and ensuring his exit!
How many people have told you that they hope Ireland lose so Kenny will be sacked ?
 
To say i am not a Kenny fan would be a understatement , but i hope he wins every game while he is in charge of Ireland .
I also hope he wins every game, someone had posted on here that those of us who prefer to wait until the end of the campaign before assessing SK were just hoping that we don't beat Luxembourg so it would make it harder to advocate to keep Kenny.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kearney304 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Oct 2021 at 12:42pm
Exactly which is why I get so annoyed. Luck is a part of football. We have been unlucky. Slovakia away, Serbia away & Portugal away were 3 good performances against 2 decent sides and 1 world class one. When was the last time we went anywhere and retained the ball? Or looked creative? At full time after the game in Slovakia everyone was in agreement that it could have and should have went our way. It didn't & I get it but to say injuries, COVID & fans didn't hamper us in getting a result is just putting blinkers on.

A lot of this comes back to a comment about Serbia and someone saying we played well in it. We didnt. 

You keep referencing rewriting history and make points to suit your argument. We did play well away from home against the team who look like they will top the group. Again you either didn't watch the game or just have blinkers on.

Regarding Duffy - you said again rewriting history. He was dropped by Ireland & rightly so. Would MON have done that? No chance. This is what I say about man management. Getting the best out of players while also giving them confidence. Taking young lads out of the firing line while putting in other young lads. 

Just realised you're talking about the home game, Jesus wept.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote planning Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Oct 2021 at 12:57pm
Originally posted by E2016 E2016 wrote:

As for the progression - sure the last two games have been very good, but have there been 'so many clear signs of progression'? Is two games enough to point to and say that everything is finally coming to fruition?

If Portugal put a few goals past us and we lose to Luxembourg after, nobody is going to give two sh*ts about a friendly v Qatar. The conversation looks a lot different then. Hopefully we are finally on the upward curve with Kenny, but to act like it's been obvious for months, or that he needs to be given a new contract now - is absolutely bizarre stuff. Lets wait and see.

LOL

You only want to "wait and see" since we beat Qatar. Before then, you didn't wait at all, as you had seen enough. What you're waiting patiently for is the "different conversation" you write about above. After the win in Baku, the next demand was to "build on it". When we built on it, the next demand was beat Luxembourg. And if we beat them, the goalposts will be moved again. 

Philip Quinn has been forecasting various takes on the "different conversation" above in his newspaper column every single day for the past month. As the results went for Kenny this week, he had to change direction.  So he was left to cry and whinge that the brits in green joined us in the also rans ward this week, reminiscing fondly about what they done 40 years ago. I frankly don't care about them, they have their own association, their own team, their own history, and it's about as useful to me as football in Norway. 

We've lost one of the last 8 games. It's not breaking any records, but it gives Kenny something to build on. The next 2 games are going to be hard, and it's unlikely we'll win both, we may not win either, and I'm sure you'll have a lot more to say about that than the past week. But the conversation won't be any different. The redevelopment job continues into the next campaign. Luxembourg is just another step on the journey, not it's destination.


Edited by planning - 15 Oct 2021 at 1:01pm
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