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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fruice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 2021 at 10:26am
Originally posted by Left foot Left foot wrote:

Originally posted by Lenny82 Lenny82 wrote:

Another 'If my aunt had balls..' post alert!

If I thought we didn't deserve anything out of the group games to date, I'd be calling for a change too, but based on performances, I feel we deserved a point away to Serbia and Portugal, a point home to Lux and 3 points v Azerbaijan but zero from the game at home to Serbia.

Obviously this would have us in a far better position but I get the impression, from some on here, that it still wouldn't have been enough for Kenny.

Your uncle could identify as your aunt and by extension have female balls.
So what your saying is Kenny can identify himself as a successful international manager but in fact he is not!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trap junior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 2021 at 10:41am
Originally posted by Fozz Fozz wrote:

Originally posted by Mr Brick Mr Brick wrote:

An unbiased guide to success/failure is FIFA rankings . . . and it's a fallacy that no other manager would have introduced young players. Restructure or not - we should beat Luxembourg and Azerbaijan. The bar has been lowered to such a ridiculous level - apparently we should reward the worst manager in Irish football history with more campaigns, some say until 2026.

The same few posters keep repeating this..but why?
This is an arguement based on feelings, not facts.

If I ignore all the facts and think of Ireland as a decent 2nd-tier footballing nation of old, then I just feel we should be beating teams with long names or who are places I can't find on a map.
This just feels right...sure haven't we always (in my lifetime) done this?
How can anyone now be saying we should not expect to beat these far-flung or tiny nations?!

Then the facts brigade show up spouting all manner of basic realities that show no, indeed, we have no right to think we should be beating those nations based on any reliable metric.
They show how we haven't beaten anyone of note in years, how our perfoarmances have been drifting the wrong way for a decade or more, how our players have fallen drastically from the ivory towers of top-tier club football, how our coaching structure has been laid waste for two decades...

These are the facts.
They don't taste good.
But denying them will get us nowhere as we first have to face the music and fix the issues to get back to a place where, yes, losing at home to a micro-country and a CCCP backwater are unacceptable.






Amazing that the Branch Kennyians weren't saying this 2 years ago when Mick was in charge and were outraged we couldn't turn over the Danes at home and still beating minnows apart from a draw in Georgia.

The lengths some are going to now to justify this appalling set of results is laughable.  Luxembourg are now a force to be reckoned with because they have a couple of players playing for no hoper teams that scrape into the Champions League. 

Azerbaijan are now the new FC Barcelona as they have the Azerbaijan La Masia at their disposal.


If these teams had players playing for top European clubs then maybe but they don't and are in fact pretty rubbish.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trap junior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 2021 at 10:58am
The next lowest win ratio of any EIRE manager is 35% or so.  Mick's win ratio for the Euro 2020 campaign was 50%. So in that 12-15 month period since Kenny took over it has dropped to 6%.  Some fall!   Are people that deluded that the player quality has drastically declined in that space of time!  If his win % was 30% then maybe you could argue that but 6% smacks of a manager completely out of his depth. 

He needs 2 wins from the remaining 3 games to stay on.  If he doesn;t he can have no excuses.  He was given the playoff, NL and WC campaign.

Brian Kerr wasn't up to it at this level and it looks like Kenny isn't either because unfortunately the LOI is so far off the pace that even our two greatest league managers of the last 30 years are shown up when they step up to international football.


Edited by Trap junior - 18 Sep 2021 at 11:23am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fozz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 2021 at 11:57am
Using only results as a metric means yes, indeed, we are drivel.

I am in no way pretending our results have been anything but poor.
I could argue that we were a few strokes of luck from some good results in there but that arguement has been made and we didn't get those goals (Hourihane v Slovakia, Connolly v Portugal, Idah v Azer etc.) and so we are where we are.

I am basing my views on how I see us playing.
Playing better than we have in a while.
Putting together passages of play that I've rarely seen Ireland do in my years watching.
Trying to hold onto the ball and make things happen.  Making plenty of good scoring opportunities.
No, we are not scoring nearly enough and have no strikers to save us but we're trying to do the right things more often than not.

Are we making mistakes?
Hell yeah!

But a managerial change now, for me, would be throwing in the towel.
I want, not expect, a win or two in our last three games.
I believe we can go to both Lux and Azer and get wins.  I don't expect it.
I am certain we will not cede posession and the initiative at every opportunity in those games and that we will create chances.

I'm an Ireland fan and want us to do well.
I think Kenny has flaws for sure but I like what he is trying to do and want to give this more time.





Edited by Fozz - 18 Sep 2021 at 11:57am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trap junior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 2021 at 12:03pm
Originally posted by Fozz Fozz wrote:

Using only results as a metric means yes, indeed, we are drivel.

I am in no way pretending our results have been anything but poor.
I could argue that we were a few strokes of luck from some good results in there but that arguement has been made and we didn't get those goals (Hourihane v Slovakia, Connolly v Portugal, Idah v Azer etc.) and so we are where we are.

I am basing my views on how I see us playing.
Playing better than we have in a while.
Putting together passages of play that I've rarely seen Ireland do in my years watching.
Trying to hold onto the ball and make things happen.  Making plenty of good scoring opportunities.
No, we are not scoring nearly enough and have no strikers to save us but we're trying to do the right things more often than not.

Are we making mistakes?
Hell yeah!

But a managerial change now, for me, would be throwing in the towel.
I want, not expect, a win or two in our last three games.
I believe we can go to both Lux and Azer and get wins.  I don't expect it.
I am certain we will not cede posession and the initiative at every opportunity in those games and that we will create chances.

I'm an Ireland fan and want us to do well.
I think Kenny has flaws for sure but I like what he is trying to do and want to give this more time.





Yes there has been good stuff in there and I appreciate what he is trying to do and agree with it.  But results are results.  The bar is not being set high for him.  Beat Azerbaijan and Luxembourg at home.   That's the minimum requirement!  Any lower and we should give up participating international football.
I hope he turns it around but have major doubts he can. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frabhoy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 2021 at 12:03pm
Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

The next lowest win ratio of any EIRE manager is 35% or so.  Mick's win ratio for the Euro 2020 campaign was 50%. So in that 12-15 month period since Kenny took over it has dropped to 6%.  Some fall!   Are people that deluded that the player quality has drastically declined in that space of time!  If his win % was 30% then maybe you could argue that but 6% smacks of a manager completely out of his depth. 

He needs 2 wins from the remaining 3 games to stay on.  If he doesn;t he can have no excuses.  He was given the playoff, NL and WC campaign.

Brian Kerr wasn't up to it at this level and it looks like Kenny isn't either because unfortunately the LOI is so far off the pace that even our two greatest league managers of the last 30 years are shown up when they step up to international football.

I agree with most of your post except the last paragraph. He may be out of his depth but not because international football is a massive step up. Brian Kerr did alright for Faroe Islands. There are alot of poor teams at international level and alot of the managers such as Southgate haven't had massive pedigree in the club game. 

There are other examples of other loi managers doing well at international level. E.g. michael o neill at northern ireland. Even Baraclough (ex sligo) is doing a decent job with the north. Not spectacular but against Switzerland, they looked like they had a real chance of winning while we were hanging on at home to Serbia, who argubaly are at a lower level than the swiss, based on past tournament appearances. 

The Irish job could be too big for Kenny. The players do seem to back him but alot of his in game management and substitions have had me scratching my head. The win rate is shocking and has you have said he has had the nations league and world cup. We can't just keep writing off campaigns until we become a minnow and have even less of a chance of qualifying due to poor seeding. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trap junior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 2021 at 12:08pm
Originally posted by Frabhoy Frabhoy wrote:

Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

The next lowest win ratio of any EIRE manager is 35% or so.  Mick's win ratio for the Euro 2020 campaign was 50%. So in that 12-15 month period since Kenny took over it has dropped to 6%.  Some fall!   Are people that deluded that the player quality has drastically declined in that space of time!  If his win % was 30% then maybe you could argue that but 6% smacks of a manager completely out of his depth. 

He needs 2 wins from the remaining 3 games to stay on.  If he doesn;t he can have no excuses.  He was given the playoff, NL and WC campaign.

Brian Kerr wasn't up to it at this level and it looks like Kenny isn't either because unfortunately the LOI is so far off the pace that even our two greatest league managers of the last 30 years are shown up when they step up to international football.

I agree with most of your post except the last paragraph. He may be out of his depth but not because international football is a massive step up. Brian Kerr did alright for Faroe Islands. There are alot of poor teams at international level and alot of the managers such as Southgate haven't had massive pedigree in the club game. 

There are other examples of other loi managers doing well at international level. E.g. michael o neill at northern ireland. Even Baraclough (ex sligo) is doing a decent job with the north. Not spectacular but against Switzerland, they looked like they had a real chance of winning while we were hanging on at home to Serbia, who argubaly are at a lower level than the swiss, based on past tournament appearances. 

The Irish job could be too big for Kenny. The players do seem to back him but alot of his in game management and substitions have had me scratching my head. The win rate is shocking and has you have said he has had the nations league and world cup. We can't just keep writing off campaigns until we become a minnow and have even less of a chance of qualifying due to poor seeding. 


I suppose Michael O'Neill had more respect as he was a decent player in England with Newcastle and was an ex international with T.E. and players automatically look at you different than say Stephen Kenny or Brian Kerr who have not only never been players but never managed at a decent level. 

They may even be saying the same things in the dressing room but sometimes you believe it more because of the person who is saying it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frabhoy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 2021 at 12:17pm
Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

Originally posted by Frabhoy Frabhoy wrote:

Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

The next lowest win ratio of any EIRE manager is 35% or so.  Mick's win ratio for the Euro 2020 campaign was 50%. So in that 12-15 month period since Kenny took over it has dropped to 6%.  Some fall!   Are people that deluded that the player quality has drastically declined in that space of time!  If his win % was 30% then maybe you could argue that but 6% smacks of a manager completely out of his depth. 

He needs 2 wins from the remaining 3 games to stay on.  If he doesn;t he can have no excuses.  He was given the playoff, NL and WC campaign.

Brian Kerr wasn't up to it at this level and it looks like Kenny isn't either because unfortunately the LOI is so far off the pace that even our two greatest league managers of the last 30 years are shown up when they step up to international football.

I agree with most of your post except the last paragraph. He may be out of his depth but not because international football is a massive step up. Brian Kerr did alright for Faroe Islands. There are alot of poor teams at international level and alot of the managers such as Southgate haven't had massive pedigree in the club game. 

There are other examples of other loi managers doing well at international level. E.g. michael o neill at northern ireland. Even Baraclough (ex sligo) is doing a decent job with the north. Not spectacular but against Switzerland, they looked like they had a real chance of winning while we were hanging on at home to Serbia, who argubaly are at a lower level than the swiss, based on past tournament appearances. 

The Irish job could be too big for Kenny. The players do seem to back him but alot of his in game management and substitions have had me scratching my head. The win rate is shocking and has you have said he has had the nations league and world cup. We can't just keep writing off campaigns until we become a minnow and have even less of a chance of qualifying due to poor seeding. 


I suppose Michael O'Neill had more respect as he was a decent player in England with Newcastle and was an ex international with T.E. and players automatically look at you different than say Stephen Kenny or Brian Kerr who have not only never been players but never managed at a decent level. 

They may even be saying the same things in the dressing room but sometimes you believe it more because of the person who is saying it.

Yeah definitely. Not winning will obviously affect confidence to a degree too. But alot of our experienced players are at the back or midfield so the consensus from them could be that our lack of goals is down to the fact we don't have a talisman.

We will see how these final games go. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Claret Murph Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 2021 at 1:09pm
Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

The next lowest win ratio of any EIRE manager is 35% or so.  Mick's win ratio for the Euro 2020 campaign was 50%. So in that 12-15 month period since Kenny took over it has dropped to 6%.  Some fall!   Are people that deluded that the player quality has drastically declined in that space of time!  If his win % was 30% then maybe you could argue that but 6% smacks of a manager completely out of his depth. 

He needs 2 wins from the remaining 3 games to stay on.  If he doesn;t he can have no excuses.  He was given the playoff, NL and WC campaign.

Brian Kerr wasn't up to it at this level and it looks like Kenny isn't either because unfortunately the LOI is so far off the pace that even our two greatest league managers of the last 30 years are shown up when they step up to international football.
Funny really i really rated Brian then he dropped such a clanger at home to Isreal when we were 2-0 up , look things fell apart as the job was bigger than him and he had to fight the FAI and JD .
As for Kenny if i am honest which i think i am the only reason i can see why 80% on here want him to stay on is we now play a different type of game , which we do and he has a LOI background and from Dublin . 
You you look at the stats and stats alone they are shocking .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FrankosHereNow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 2021 at 1:31pm
Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

The next lowest win ratio of any EIRE manager is 35% or so.  Mick's win ratio for the Euro 2020 campaign was 50%. So in that 12-15 month period since Kenny took over it has dropped to 6%.  Some fall!   Are people that deluded that the player quality has drastically declined in that space of time!  If his win % was 30% then maybe you could argue that but 6% smacks of a manager completely out of his depth. 

He needs 2 wins from the remaining 3 games to stay on.  If he doesn;t he can have no excuses.  He was given the playoff, NL and WC campaign.

Brian Kerr wasn't up to it at this level and it looks like Kenny isn't either because unfortunately the LOI is so far off the pace that even our two greatest league managers of the last 30 years are shown up when they step up to international football.
Mick Meagan had a 0% win rate.
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Originally posted by FrankosHereNow FrankosHereNow wrote:

Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

The next lowest win ratio of any EIRE manager is 35% or so.  Mick's win ratio for the Euro 2020 campaign was 50%. So in that 12-15 month period since Kenny took over it has dropped to 6%.  Some fall!   Are people that deluded that the player quality has drastically declined in that space of time!  If his win % was 30% then maybe you could argue that but 6% smacks of a manager completely out of his depth. 

He needs 2 wins from the remaining 3 games to stay on.  If he doesn;t he can have no excuses.  He was given the playoff, NL and WC campaign.

Brian Kerr wasn't up to it at this level and it looks like Kenny isn't either because unfortunately the LOI is so far off the pace that even our two greatest league managers of the last 30 years are shown up when they step up to international football.
Mick Meagan had a 0% win rate.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trap junior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 2021 at 1:43pm
Originally posted by FrankosHereNow FrankosHereNow wrote:

Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

The next lowest win ratio of any EIRE manager is 35% or so.  Mick's win ratio for the Euro 2020 campaign was 50%. So in that 12-15 month period since Kenny took over it has dropped to 6%.  Some fall!   Are people that deluded that the player quality has drastically declined in that space of time!  If his win % was 30% then maybe you could argue that but 6% smacks of a manager completely out of his depth. 

He needs 2 wins from the remaining 3 games to stay on.  If he doesn;t he can have no excuses.  He was given the playoff, NL and WC campaign.

Brian Kerr wasn't up to it at this level and it looks like Kenny isn't either because unfortunately the LOI is so far off the pace that even our two greatest league managers of the last 30 years are shown up when they step up to international football.
Mick Meagan had a 0% win rate.

And was sacked.  Should Kenny be any different?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote planning Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 2021 at 8:59pm
Originally posted by Mr Brick Mr Brick wrote:

An unbiased guide to success/failure is FIFA rankings . . . and it's a fallacy that no other manager would have introduced young players. Restructure or not - we should beat Luxembourg and Azerbaijan. The bar has been lowered to such a ridiculous level - apparently we should reward the worst manager in Irish football history with more campaigns, some say until 2026.

But you declare no wins against Azerbaijan and Luxembourg would be OK, not a problem, carry on Stephen. I think not.

I declared it wouldn't be the end of the world if we don't. If we beat either or them, or both, it doesn't mean we're suddenly world beaters. Personally I can't see us winning both, and would expect something similiar to the scorelines at home.

Fifa rankings only account for scorelines. They don't recognise tactics, or styles of play, or possession stats, or player availability, or squad depth, or virus restrictions. They often paint a false picture of the world game. Brazil are usually top, yet haven't won the WC in 20 years. England are now in the top 5. Their last major trophy was 55 years ago. Messi is often called the greatest player ever, but he's never won the World Cup. 

The bar has been reduced, because it has to be reduced. We have had fantastic players over the past 50 years all over the pitch, now we have players struggling to get game time for their clubs. None of the potential replacements for Kenny suggested would bring through the number of players he has. They would stick to hoofball with the tried and trusted, and when it failed, blame the lack of players for it, then get sacked and repeat the same old cycle again. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote You Tell Me Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 2021 at 9:44pm
Originally posted by planning planning wrote:

Originally posted by Mr Brick Mr Brick wrote:

An unbiased guide to success/failure is FIFA rankings . . . and it's a fallacy that no other manager would have introduced young players. Restructure or not - we should beat Luxembourg and Azerbaijan. The bar has been lowered to such a ridiculous level - apparently we should reward the worst manager in Irish football history with more campaigns, some say until 2026.

But you declare no wins against Azerbaijan and Luxembourg would be OK, not a problem, carry on Stephen. I think not.

I declared it wouldn't be the end of the world if we don't. If we beat either or them, or both, it doesn't mean we're suddenly world beaters. Personally I can't see us winning both, and would expect something similiar to the scorelines at home.


That will be the end for Kenny if those are the results.
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