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It's the Stephen Kenny Thread
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Paul McGrath
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Points: 15736 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Claret Murph Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 2021 at 11:31am
Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Originally posted by avfc avfc wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

what’s that got to do with Murph making up stories and lying to suit his agenda 
 
He didn't make up anything, Kenny was ushered in as a man who would transform us into a footballing side who play 433 and dominate possession. This has been the narrative. We recognise it as BS and we are not afraid to state that.

He said that people claimed Kenny was the messiah but cant find one post on here where someone said that.  its classic strawman style argument.  
 
 Baldie , i have near to 270 pages to read on this Thread , will you give me time or just hang me without a trial .
 
I will find something but then again why should i bother as you have your mind made up not matter what i say .
 
Go argue with the mirror again will yer . Ouch
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Murph people usually make a statement based on the evidence not make a statement and then try to find the evidence.  

You said it and now you are desperately trying to find a post that backs that up.  

The truth is that the vast amount of posters and Irish fans whether they were in favour of Kenny getting the job or not want to see him given a fair crack of the job and will judge after the qualifiers.  There is 3 or four including yourself that do not seem prepared to give him a chance and have been that way from the start.  

If we are poor in the qualifiers and don’t score goals and we finish 4th I will be saying he has to go.  Any fair minded fan would say the same.  You have written him off from the start and have not given Kenny a chance and sounding more like a football tourist than an Ireland supporter. 


Edited by Baldrick - 26 Jan 2021 at 11:46am
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Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Murph people usually make a statement based on the evidence not make a statement and then try to find the evidence.  

You said it and now you are desperately trying to find a post that backs that up.  

The truth is that the vast amount of posters and Irish fans whether they were in favour of Kenny getting the job or not want to see him given a fair crack of the job and will judge after the qualifiers.  There is 3 or four including yourself that do not seem prepared to give him a chance and have been that way from the start.  

If we are poor in the qualifiers and don’t score goals and we finish 4th I will be saying he has to go.  Any fair minded fan would say the same.  You have written him off from the start and have not given Kenny a chance and sounding more like a football tourist than an Ireland supporter. 
 
That's all fair enough but any coach of any European side which harbour qualification hopes normally would be in a ropey situation to have endured the run of form Kenny is on. 1 goal in 8 games is ropey by any standard. The run of form we are on is something you'd expect from a Moldova or a Kazakhstan.
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you don't rate him. We get it.
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Time to nip this in the bud.

It's only January - another 8 weeks to the next game. You should park this discussion here.
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Originally posted by horsebox horsebox wrote:

Time to nip this in the bud.

It's only January - another 8 weeks to the next game. You should park this discussion here.
 
We shall commence an armistice.
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Am I being dense or does no one realise he has never had a full squad to select from, not had one “normal” camp and the closest approximation was vs Slovakia and we should have won (and we were still missing Connolly and Idah)
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Baldrick labels himself a pedant...obviously true. Claiming SK is perceived by some as the Messiah does not literally mean that people said he was the Messiah, a fair person would have understood precisely what was meant by that universally used description. As for agendas, there is clearly a LOI loyalist agenda in relation to SK. Precisely how many matches does he have to lose to get the sack? Precisely how many dog awful performances before we conclude he is at the level of Steve Staunton? Or, judging by his record to date, actually worse. Who knows, there might be a miraculous recovery in 2021. And just to clarify for Baldrick, I don't mean an actual miracle!

As Dunphy might have said, we have a rinky dink manager!
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Hmmm, Goodness, I must say

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Originally posted by avfc avfc wrote:

Originally posted by horsebox horsebox wrote:

Time to nip this in the bud.

It's only January - another 8 weeks to the next game. You should park this discussion here.
 
We shall commence an armistice.
 
 Agreed Thumbs Up
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Originally posted by TooOldForThis TooOldForThis wrote:

Baldrick labels himself a pedant...obviously true. Claiming SK is perceived by some as the Messiah does not literally mean that people said he was the Messiah, a fair person would have understood precisely what was meant by that universally used description. As for agendas, there is clearly a LOI loyalist agenda in relation to SK. Precisely how many matches does he have to lose to get the sack? Precisely how many dog awful performances before we conclude he is at the level of Steve Staunton? Or, judging by his record to date, actually worse. Who knows, there might be a miraculous recovery in 2021. And just to clarify for Baldrick, I don't mean an actual miracle!

As Dunphy might have said, we have a rinky dink manager!

Re read the thread again. Murph is the one who made the allegation that people claimed Kenny was the messiah.  He has been unable to say who or where this was said or inferred.  He is making up stuff as part of his strawman tactics.  I have seen no evidence that Irish fans were claiming Kenny was the Messiah of Irish football. 
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Originally posted by TooOldForThis TooOldForThis wrote:

Baldrick labels himself a pedant...obviously true. Claiming SK is perceived by some as the Messiah does not literally mean that people said he was the Messiah, a fair person would have understood precisely what was meant by that universally used description. As for agendas, there is clearly a LOI loyalist agenda in relation to SK. Precisely how many matches does he have to lose to get the sack? Precisely how many dog awful performances before we conclude he is at the level of Steve Staunton? Or, judging by his record to date, actually worse. Who knows, there might be a miraculous recovery in 2021. And just to clarify for Baldrick, I don't mean an actual miracle!

As Dunphy might have said, we have a rinky dink manager!


If the games were spread out more, it would look a good bit worse. 8 games compressed into a 2 and a half month schedule in the midst of an unprecedented Covid outbreak. You have to give him leeway because of that. No other manager has dealt with those kind of cards for us. It's promising that arguably our best performance came in the match that mattered most.
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Mick McCarthy was in charge for three and a bit qualifying campaigns in his first stint as manager March '96 - Nov '02 and I fully expect Kenny to be afforded the same stint if he chooses. Chopping and changing Managers is not the answer to our problems.
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Originally posted by Neil Armstrong Neil Armstrong wrote:

Mick McCarthy was in charge for three and a bit qualifying campaigns in his first stint as manager March '96 - Nov '02 and I fully expect Kenny to be afforded the same stint if he chooses. Chopping and changing Managers is not the answer to our problems.

If we don't finish at least 3rd in this qualifying group and a make decent fight for 2nd spot with Serbia, then it'll be difficult to keep Kenny on. 

We will still have a pretty difficult task in securing the playoff spot over a much more technical side like Serbia but any leeway Kenny has had will be gone if we finish 4th behind Luxembourg. He'll be out. 

If we finish 3rd and brought it to the last round of games just missing out on second place, then there'd be an argument for keeping him on for the 2024 campaign. 
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Originally posted by irishmufc irishmufc wrote:

Originally posted by Neil Armstrong Neil Armstrong wrote:

Mick McCarthy was in charge for three and a bit qualifying campaigns in his first stint as manager March '96 - Nov '02 and I fully expect Kenny to be afforded the same stint if he chooses. Chopping and changing Managers is not the answer to our problems.

If we don't finish at least 3rd in this qualifying group and a make decent fight for 2nd spot with Serbia, then it'll be difficult to keep Kenny on. 

We will still have a pretty difficult task in securing the playoff spot over a much more technical side like Serbia but any leeway Kenny has had will be gone if we finish 4th behind Luxembourg. He'll be out. 

If we finish 3rd and brought it to the last round of games just missing out on second place, then there'd b4e an argument for keeping him on for the 2024 campaign. 

Fully agree. 
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Too young to remember it at the time but was there much clamour for Mick's resignation in the period before the 2002 campaign?

Apart from one reasonably successful season at Millwall, he had no managerial pedigree, and was following on from the most successful period in Irish football. We certainly underachieved in his time as manager, only qualifying for a tournament once, especially given the players we had at the time.

Those who champion Micks first reign and how he was given a few campaigns to get it right, are probably the same ones who want Kenny gone after 8 games (1 goal scored, we know, get over it) in the most disruptive period football has ever seen.

Give him a fair crack of at least one campaign and we can judge him then. In the meantime, lock this thread until the next round of games.
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Originally posted by avfc avfc wrote:

Originally posted by irishmufc irishmufc wrote:

Originally posted by Neil Armstrong Neil Armstrong wrote:

Mick McCarthy was in charge for three and a bit qualifying campaigns in his first stint as manager March '96 - Nov '02 and I fully expect Kenny to be afforded the same stint if he chooses. Chopping and changing Managers is not the answer to our problems.

If we don't finish at least 3rd in this qualifying group and a make decent fight for 2nd spot with Serbia, then it'll be difficult to keep Kenny on. 

We will still have a pretty difficult task in securing the playoff spot over a much more technical side like Serbia but any leeway Kenny has had will be gone if we finish 4th behind Luxembourg. He'll be out. 

If we finish 3rd and brought it to the last round of games just missing out on second place, then there'd b4e an argument for keeping him on for the 2024 campaign. 

Fully agree. 

Its all well and good saying we should be finishing in this position or that position and that we should look to qualify for this tournament.

But please explain to me this. - 

1. Who do you envisaging scoring the goals for us?
2. What Goalkeeper is going to be our last line of defence?
3. Of the midfield players whos going to dominate? 
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Originally posted by The Huntacha The Huntacha wrote:

Too young to remember it at the time but was there much clamour for Mick's resignation in the period before the 2002 campaign?

Apart from one reasonably successful season at Millwall, he had no managerial pedigree, and was following on from the most successful period in Irish football. We certainly underachieved in his time as manager, only qualifying for a tournament once, especially given the players we had at the time.

Those who champion Micks first reign and how he was given a few campaigns to get it right, are probably the same ones who want Kenny gone after 8 games (1 goal scored, we know, get over it) in the most disruptive period football has ever seen.

Give him a fair crack of at least one campaign and we can judge him then. In the meantime, lock this thread until the next round of games.

I wasn't going to games at that time and was only in my teens then but I don't remember anything in the media calling for him to resign. Match going lads on here at the time would probably be able to answer that question better. 

In fairness to Mick we were competitive in the two qualifying groups for France 98 & Euro 2000 even though we were in transition. Got into playoffs on both. 
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there was plenty of talk during his 1st campaign.  To be fair his second campaign was excellent really barring the last few minutes in Macedonia. Two great home wins against Croatia and Yugoslavia. He did get criticised for negative tactics away to both teams.  

The 1st campaign was a bit of a shambles but he was learning on the job and was also overhauling the squad.  How he handled Iriwij McGrath and Aldridge was poor.  He was aided by how easy a
Group it was due to our excellent seeding. 

But he was kept on and it was a wise decision. 


Edited by Baldrick - 26 Jan 2021 at 8:10pm
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