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SQUAD - November Friendlies

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Kevin Kilbane
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TooOldForThis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2022 at 9:49pm
Originally posted by MayoMark MayoMark wrote:

Originally posted by SeaSharp SeaSharp wrote:

LOI fans may not have appointed him but they've certainly helped prolong his tenure by acting as apologists for his ineptitude.

Ah stop that's awful nonsense.
The most ardent supporters of SK are LOI supporters and they want one of their own to do well. Understandable but they are putting loyalty to LOI before the interests of the national team. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MayoMark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2022 at 9:51pm
Originally posted by TooOldForThis TooOldForThis wrote:

Originally posted by MayoMark MayoMark wrote:

Originally posted by SeaSharp SeaSharp wrote:

LOI fans may not have appointed him but they've certainly helped prolong his tenure by acting as apologists for his ineptitude.

Ah stop that's awful nonsense.
The most ardent supporters of SK are LOI supporters and they want one of their own to do well. Understandable but they are putting loyalty to LOI before the interests of the national team. 

Any examples? Claret Murph and Cabra Hoop are both LOI men, and both are staunchly of the opinion that Kenny isn't the right man. I'm sure there are plenty more.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote You Tell Me Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2022 at 9:51pm
The thing is I think Kenny could actually do a lot of good in an upstairs director type role at the FAI, overseeing the restructuring of youth football and so on. But, like Kerr before him, he's been put in the wrong job and will now be punted completely when it comes to an end with the senior team job, which he should never have been anywhere near to begin with.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Luis Amor Rodriguez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2022 at 9:52pm
Originally posted by bundy bundy wrote:

Originally posted by zizu Kilbane zizu Kilbane wrote:

Originally posted by bundy bundy wrote:

The Friday night merchants might start actually being honest with themselves and everyone else now. Kenny is a total spoofer, as many of us have been saying since day 1. Norway and tonight should confirm it for absolutely everybody. This man has got to go.

Irish football is where it is currently in a large part because of the barstooler epidemic and systemic corruption in the FAI. Stop dribbling all over your phone 

No, Irish Football is where it is because the quality of coaching from underage up to senior level is not up to scratch and never has been. The top level premier league players we have produced almost seems like by accident rather than design. This is not a recent thing, it goes back 30 years. Barstoolers have nothing got to do with it whatsoever. If a decent product is there, people will go and watch it. Unfortunately the LOI is not a decent product, it is pure muck. Employing a LOI manager has ensured our national team is no longer competitive. We’ve never been an easy team to watch but we’ve always been competitive. Absolutely not the case anymore. 

The Friday night guys can mouth off all they want about this clown in charge but they’re only lying to themselves at this stage. Nobody else is buying it. The sooner he goes the better and I tell you one thing, he’ll never manager at a decent level. How he got the job in the first place is simply astounding. 

In fairness, and I see it has triggered a lot of posters, but Bundy has a point here. 

Kenny is - by some distance - the least successful manager in living memory.  And yet is unimpeachable. 

I don't think anyone would disagree that any other manager would have been fired a long time ago.  

It would seem his LOI background has created a "he's one of us" thing with a certain section of the supporters. 

Two things stand out for me:

1.  a long list of obviously naive tactical decisions and mistakes which undermine the team.  We've seen other managers do it (such as MON's desperate gambit at 1-2 at home to Denmark), but not so often.

2.  Ireland teams have not necessarily had the best players on the pitch.  However, all my life, Irish teams have always played greater than the sum of their parts, beating or drawing with teams who on paper are superior to us  (be it Jack, Mick I, Kerr, Stan with some notable exceptions, Trap, MON especially, Mick II).  
For the first time, these last few years we're playing below the sum of our parts.   Losing or drawing to teams we should be well ahead of.  I never thought I'd see the day where we'd be losing to Luxembourg and Armenia, and barely scrapping by against Malta.   

We need a manager that can improve our expected performance, not take away from them. 

One other thing - an early benefit of Kenny was his willingness to try new things and new players.  Sadly, he seems to have lost that attitude (or freedom) now.  A Norway team on our level and a Malta team two or three rungs below was the game to blood new lads like Hodge, Smallbone, Ronan, Sykes (for more than 10 min), Manning etc.

Kenny has done what MON and Mick and Jack have done before - in the last few years he's just stuck to HIS "tried and tested" - Jeff on for caps 76 and 77.  I like Jeff, but, as many people have said on here, we don't need to try him out in friendlies as we're not going to learn anything new. 

The headline point though - I agree with Bundy that he wouldn't still be in a job if it was not for his LOI background.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SeaSharp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2022 at 9:54pm
Originally posted by doherty doherty wrote:

Originally posted by SeaSharp SeaSharp wrote:

Originally posted by doherty doherty wrote:

Originally posted by SeaSharp SeaSharp wrote:

LOI fans may not have appointed him but they've certainly helped prolong his tenure by acting as apologists for his ineptitude.

Such rubbish. Im a LOI fan but do you think i prefer to keep him just cause of that? Laughable. LOI has nothing to do with things.
I accept its a sweeping statement and it won't apply to everybody, but most of the SK fans I've interacted with on social media have been LOI fans who enjoy seeing one of their own at the helm.

Yes it's completely anecdotal but I don't think I'd be the only one who's noticed it

Ya well any LOI fan will have seen him have success with Longford Bohs Derry and how he transformed Dundalk and took them on such a European run. We all want him to succeed. Hes a passionate Irishman who really really wants to make Irish football better. Nothing will give me more pleasure if he turns it around. Right now i dont see it though. 
So you're kind of proving me right. "He's a passionate Irishman" is just the type of apologia I'm talking about. That is not related to his ability to manage the team at all. Neither is his success in the LOI, a standard of football that is much much lower than the one he has been struggling at badly for 2 years now. 

He's out of his depth and I think even the LOI fans see it now, but it should have never gone on this long in the first place.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RKeane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2022 at 9:54pm
Kenny in or Kenny out it’s not really going to matter, this is Irelands worst ever squad, aside from Bazunu there’s nobody in the current squad and there’s nobody coming through, a really dark time for our national team, well done John Delaney. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fitz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2022 at 9:55pm
Originally posted by MayoMark MayoMark wrote:

Nah to be completely fair he was labelled a "Friday Night Merchant" (utterly bizarre) so he was being talked down to for some reason. You chimed in then in what looks like is a comment in agreement with the original post. Don't think Zizu has anything to climb down from


So suggesting that I was a “superficial” fan is okay, ya? Would you like that label? 

I specified “gatekeepers” - maybe “LOI Kenny-loyalists” would’ve been a better term. Regardless, those groups exist. That’s just how it is. I was by no means talking about all LOI fans - as I’ve already stated I’m looking forward to supporting Kerry FC next years, so I’d hardly be besmirching LOI fans, would I? I’m not going to be told I’m a superficial supporter when I’ve been following the team since the late 80s - so, yes, he has something to climb down from. 


Edited by Fitz - 20 Nov 2022 at 9:58pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MayoMark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2022 at 9:57pm
I don't know what you meant by gatekeepers to be honest but it appeared that you were agreeing with the original poster. That's my reading of it anyways. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fitz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2022 at 9:59pm
Originally posted by MayoMark MayoMark wrote:

I don't know what you meant by gatekeepers to be honest but it appeared that you were agreeing with the original poster. That's my reading of it anyways. 


You’re seeing what you want to see, then, quite obviously. I’ve explained it quite clearly. 

You’re okay with me being labelled a “superficial” Ireland fan by some guy who doesn’t know me and has taken exception to a comment that he disagreed with or missed the point of? 


Edited by Fitz - 20 Nov 2022 at 10:04pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MayoMark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2022 at 10:02pm
Your original post didn't explain it very well. He (not specifically him) was called a "Friday Night Merchant", you agreed calling him a gatekeeper, and then we had his reaction. 

I'm not seeing what I want to see, that was my reading of it. I haven't been offended here. I don't have a senior League of Ireland club and I don't attend games bar the odd one or two if the time/date suits.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nax Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2022 at 10:02pm
We are were we are unfortunately. I do think he should go now. Although I do believe the quality of players in the championship is vastly overrated a game like that tonight playing against such opposition you really should be offering more. I can see another coach getting slightly more out of these players but in the grand scheme of things these are a really really poor group.

As for the folks having a go at each other. Irish football is skint, having got involved with one of the major DDSL clubs this year the quality of coaching across the top divisions is absolutely dreadful. The new director of football worked for the premier league previously. There is nothing he can bring to the job that will improve the structure here. ZERO. The task at hand is not comparable to anything he would have done for the premier league. The schoolboy leagues and the FAI disagree on everything. LOI clubs have awful facilities and impressively somehow manage to keep their heads above water considering the circumstances. 

We have no money to bring in a decent coach. He would have been gone by now if we did. Across the board football is screwed and has been for a long time in this country. I do think he should go but do not kid yourselves lads this is only going to get worse as the structure below the national team is completely broken. 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fitz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2022 at 10:05pm
Originally posted by MayoMark MayoMark wrote:

Your original post didn't explain it very well. He (not specifically him) was called a "Friday Night Merchant", you agreed calling him a gatekeeper, and then we had his reaction. 

I'm not seeing what I want to see, that was my reading of it. I haven't been offended here. I don't have a senior League of Ireland club and I don't attend games bar the odd one or two if the time/date suits.  


I didn’t call him a gatekeeper at all - read it back - and I’ve already explained who I was referring to.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MayoMark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2022 at 10:06pm
Originally posted by Fitz Fitz wrote:

Originally posted by MayoMark MayoMark wrote:

Your original post didn't explain it very well. He (not specifically him) was called a "Friday Night Merchant", you agreed calling him a gatekeeper, and then we had his reaction. 

I'm not seeing what I want to see, that was my reading of it. I haven't been offended here. I don't have a senior League of Ireland club and I don't attend games bar the odd one or two if the time/date suits.  


I didn’t call him a gatekeeper at all - read it back - and I’ve already explained who I was referring to.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fitz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2022 at 10:08pm
Originally posted by MayoMark MayoMark wrote:

Originally posted by Fitz Fitz wrote:

Originally posted by MayoMark MayoMark wrote:

Your original post didn't explain it very well. He (not specifically him) was called a "Friday Night Merchant", you agreed calling him a gatekeeper, and then we had his reaction. 

I'm not seeing what I want to see, that was my reading of it. I haven't been offended here. I don't have a senior League of Ireland club and I don't attend games bar the odd one or two if the time/date suits.  


I didn’t call him a gatekeeper at all - read it back - and I’ve already explained who I was referring to.



So do you think it’s acceptable to be labelled “superficial” or not? Interested to hear your thoughts on this.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MayoMark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2022 at 10:12pm
I don't really care one way or the other and I don't think you should either to be honest

I suppose in the same way your comment was misconstrued, his was too, because there are a huge amount of superficial fans in Ireland. You happen to not be one of them.  And he said fair play for supporting your club next year. Ye might even get Rovers in the Cup and ye can chat it out over a half time cuppa
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Greenie50 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2022 at 10:14pm
Originally posted by Luis Amor Rodriguez Luis Amor Rodriguez wrote:

Originally posted by bundy bundy wrote:

Originally posted by zizu Kilbane zizu Kilbane wrote:

Originally posted by bundy bundy wrote:

The Friday night merchants might start actually being honest with themselves and everyone else now. Kenny is a total spoofer, as many of us have been saying since day 1. Norway and tonight should confirm it for absolutely everybody. This man has got to go.

Irish football is where it is currently in a large part because of the barstooler epidemic and systemic corruption in the FAI. Stop dribbling all over your phone 

No, Irish Football is where it is because the quality of coaching from underage up to senior level is not up to scratch and never has been. The top level premier league players we have produced almost seems like by accident rather than design. This is not a recent thing, it goes back 30 years. Barstoolers have nothing got to do with it whatsoever. If a decent product is there, people will go and watch it. Unfortunately the LOI is not a decent product, it is pure muck. Employing a LOI manager has ensured our national team is no longer competitive. We’ve never been an easy team to watch but we’ve always been competitive. Absolutely not the case anymore. 

The Friday night guys can mouth off all they want about this clown in charge but they’re only lying to themselves at this stage. Nobody else is buying it. The sooner he goes the better and I tell you one thing, he’ll never manager at a decent level. How he got the job in the first place is simply astounding. 

In fairness, and I see it has triggered a lot of posters, but Bundy has a point here. 

Kenny is - by some distance - the least successful manager in living memory.  And yet is unimpeachable. 

I don't think anyone would disagree that any other manager would have been fired a long time ago.  

It would seem his LOI background has created a "he's one of us" thing with a certain section of the supporters. 

Two things stand out for me:

1.  a long list of obviously naive tactical decisions and mistakes which undermine the team.  We've seen other managers do it (such as MON's desperate gambit at 1-2 at home to Denmark), but not so often.

2.  Ireland teams have not necessarily had the best players on the pitch.  However, all my life, Irish teams have always played greater than the sum of their parts, beating or drawing with teams who on paper are superior to us  (be it Jack, Mick I, Kerr, Stan with some notable exceptions, Trap, MON especially, Mick II).  
For the first time, these last few years we're playing below the sum of our parts.   Losing or drawing to teams we should be well ahead of.  I never thought I'd see the day where we'd be losing to Luxembourg and Armenia, and barely scrapping by against Malta.   

We need a manager that can improve our expected performance, not take away from them. 

One other thing - an early benefit of Kenny was his willingness to try new things and new players.  Sadly, he seems to have lost that attitude (or freedom) now.  A Norway team on our level and a Malta team two or three rungs below was the game to blood new lads like Hodge, Smallbone, Ronan, Sykes (for more than 10 min), Manning etc.

Kenny has done what MON and Mick and Jack have done before - in the last few years he's just stuck to HIS "tried and tested" - Jeff on for caps 76 and 77.  I like Jeff, but, as many people have said on here, we don't need to try him out in friendlies as we're not going to learn anything new. 

The headline point though - I agree with Bundy that he wouldn't still be in a job if it was not for his LOI background.




I think the bolded is miles wide of the mark.

He gets a lot more leeway than previous managers because he's taken over during what is basically an historic rebuild, & the first 13 months of it were in the middle of a pandemic where he was constantly missing half his squad.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SeanC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2022 at 10:14pm
LoI fan since 80s, massive respect for what Kenny did at Longford and especially Dundalk but the guy is really out of his depth. He’s been learning on the job which should not be the purpose/ role of the Manager of Irish national team. We all know he’s a good guy so none of this is personal but come on, how is this being tolerated?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fitz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2022 at 10:15pm
Originally posted by MayoMark MayoMark wrote:

I don't really care one way or the other and I don't think you should either to be honest

I suppose in the same way your comment was misconstrued, his was too, because there are a huge amount of superficial fans in Ireland. You happen to not be one of them.  And he said fair play for supporting your club next year. Ye might even get Rovers in the Cup and ye can chat it out over a half time cuppa


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