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SQUAD Greece (A) - Gibralter (H) June 2023
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Robbie Keane
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Originally posted by Fruice Fruice wrote:

Originally posted by John Nice John Nice wrote:

Originally posted by Fruice Fruice wrote:

I really can’t understand the Cannon situation.

Fair enough he hasn’t trained due to illness but the games are weeks away he has plenty of time to get ready.

We know he is a better finisher than some of our other options.

We all know Kenny is slow to bring new faces in so the best he was going to get was a substitute appearance.

I know I would much rather see him coming off the bench in Greece to get a goal rather than his team mate Parrot.

I just can’t see why Kenny does this to himself you have to have space in your squads for form players.

So you know with 100% certainty that Cannon hasnt privately said he doesnt want to tie himself down just yet, which a sub app vs Gibralter would do for 3 years? 

It's just Kenny's fault so it is and that's that!

I can only go on what is selected and Cannon hasn’t been selected and the reason given is illness which is thrash especially when he can go with the 21s.

No one can’t tell me he wouldn’t be the better option on form to bring off the bench over the others selected.


Cannon should be ahead of Parrott and he should be included in the squad on merit. But he if has been sick and not trained for a month then it's the correct decision not to include him in the squad.
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Roy Keane
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Points: 10005 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Borussia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 2023 at 12:13pm
Originally posted by You Tell Me You Tell Me wrote:

Originally posted by Borussia Borussia wrote:

Originally posted by Fruice Fruice wrote:

Originally posted by Borussia Borussia wrote:

Originally posted by Fruice Fruice wrote:

I really can’t understand the Cannon situation.

Fair enough he hasn’t trained due to illness but the games are weeks away he has plenty of time to get ready.

We know he is a better finisher than some of our other options.

We all know Kenny is slow to bring new faces in so the best he was going to get was a substitute appearance.

I know I would much rather see him coming off the bench in Greece to get a goal rather than his team mate Parrot.

I just can’t see why Kenny does this to himself you have to have space in your squads for form players.

A great point - Why doesn't he give the likes of Jack Taylor a go in the squad? 

How long did it take for Taylor to get a call up?


Probably until he demonstrated he was worthy of a call up and then came to a training camp and demonstrated he had something to offer in terms of what Kenny would be looking for him to do. 

So if he wasn't at the training camp - and bear in mind he wasn't supposed to be at the training camp - he wouldn't be in. This training camp thing is bollocks, these players are playing 20, 30 games a season, more in some cases, it shouldn't matter a damn whether Kenny and his coaches see them in a 4 day get together in Bristol or not. 

Kenny and Andrews are at the same sh*te that every Irish manager before them was at as well, coming up with excuses not to pick players instead of reasons to bring them in. Wales and the north aren't messing around with training camps, they're getting the better dual nationals straight in and they're capping them. Even England are better at it than us, we're messing about yet again and will probably pay the price for it like we did previously.

Maybe you are right and all the other managers you reference are wrong.
I'm sure you're equally as qualified as them, right? 
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Points: 5137 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Nice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 2023 at 12:22pm
Looking at the l/t forecast for Athens, looks like temperature will be in the early 20s @ 2145ko local time. Humidity 38%, reasonable breeze 16km/h. Sunset is at 2049 local time.

If this is the case, while conditions will be somewhat challenging, it's not disastrous. Fingers crossed!


Edited by John Nice - 02 Jun 2023 at 12:22pm
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Jack Charlton
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Originally posted by Borussia Borussia wrote:

Originally posted by You Tell Me You Tell Me wrote:

Originally posted by Borussia Borussia wrote:

Originally posted by Fruice Fruice wrote:

Originally posted by Borussia Borussia wrote:

Originally posted by Fruice Fruice wrote:

I really can’t understand the Cannon situation.

Fair enough he hasn’t trained due to illness but the games are weeks away he has plenty of time to get ready.

We know he is a better finisher than some of our other options.

We all know Kenny is slow to bring new faces in so the best he was going to get was a substitute appearance.

I know I would much rather see him coming off the bench in Greece to get a goal rather than his team mate Parrot.

I just can’t see why Kenny does this to himself you have to have space in your squads for form players.

A great point - Why doesn't he give the likes of Jack Taylor a go in the squad? 

How long did it take for Taylor to get a call up?


Probably until he demonstrated he was worthy of a call up and then came to a training camp and demonstrated he had something to offer in terms of what Kenny would be looking for him to do. 

So if he wasn't at the training camp - and bear in mind he wasn't supposed to be at the training camp - he wouldn't be in. This training camp thing is bollocks, these players are playing 20, 30 games a season, more in some cases, it shouldn't matter a damn whether Kenny and his coaches see them in a 4 day get together in Bristol or not. 

Kenny and Andrews are at the same sh*te that every Irish manager before them was at as well, coming up with excuses not to pick players instead of reasons to bring them in. Wales and the north aren't messing around with training camps, they're getting the better dual nationals straight in and they're capping them. Even England are better at it than us, we're messing about yet again and will probably pay the price for it like we did previously.

Maybe you are right and all the other managers you reference are wrong.
I'm sure you're equally as qualified as them, right? 

I don't see too many here rushing to praise or defend Martin O'Neill or Trap's handling of Irish players and they've had far more success in their careers than the current management team. So it looks like qualifications and history of success only comes into it when it suits people.
 
What is there to lose by bringing in these lads when the opportunity is there? If they don't make the grade longer term there's no harm done, if they do then we all benefit from it. We'd have a far better team now then we do if these things were handled properly. But they're not.
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Jack Charlton
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Points: 5137 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Nice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 2023 at 12:53pm
Originally posted by John Nice John Nice wrote:

Looking at the l/t forecast for Athens, looks like temperature will be in the early 20s @ 2145ko local time. Humidity 38%, reasonable breeze 16km/h. Sunset is at 2049 local time.

If this is the case, while conditions will be somewhat challenging, it's not disastrous. Fingers crossed!

Further to this, temperatures in Antalya, Turkey, where the 9 day training camp is happening are on a par or even slightly higher than what is expected for Athens, so it seems like the choice of venue for the camp was a decent call.
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Roy Keane
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Dan McDonnell's weekly newsletter fairly on the money in terms of assessing the squad selection. 
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Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

No Cannon, no Manning, no Szmodics.  Some lads in that squad very lucky to be in it.

What's he got against player of the year Manning?
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Robbie Keane
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Originally posted by Borussia Borussia wrote:

Dan McDonnell's weekly newsletter fairly on the money in terms of assessing the squad selection. 

He has to be reading this forum!

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Originally posted by horsebox horsebox wrote:

Originally posted by Borussia Borussia wrote:

Dan McDonnell's weekly newsletter fairly on the money in terms of assessing the squad selection. 

He has to be reading this forum!

Dan Crowley and Liam Kelly!
I did laugh when I read that bit!
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Seems Festy was going to be called up, Udinese Meds saying last week that he should be recovered from his collision with the post, but he's since torn his hamstring. Ridiculous bad luck.

Manning I'm guessing is minding himself ahead of what will likely be the biggest move of his career.

Cannon, I'm guessing, is not wanting to commit just yet. If so, then Kenny's best course of action is to do what he appears to be doing, cover-story & give the lad time & space.
There's no point in publicly throwing the lad under the bus & burning bridges if he might still stick with us.

Originally posted by You Tell Me You Tell Me wrote:

Originally posted by Borussia Borussia wrote:

Originally posted by Fruice Fruice wrote:

I really can’t understand the Cannon situation.

Fair enough he hasn’t trained due to illness but the games are weeks away he has plenty of time to get ready.

We know he is a better finisher than some of our other options.

We all know Kenny is slow to bring new faces in so the best he was going to get was a substitute appearance.

I know I would much rather see him coming off the bench in Greece to get a goal rather than his team mate Parrot.

I just can’t see why Kenny does this to himself you have to have space in your squads for form players.

A great point - Why doesn't he give the likes of Jack Taylor a go in the squad? 

Especially as it has only just come to light that he is eligible and he hasn't been there to be called up for the last three years?! 

I'm sure Cannon will get a cap if he hangs around until he's 25 like Taylor has had to.


Not sure what you're on about there. Taylor played for our U21s in 2019, was called up to the seniors in 2020, and is in the squad now.


Also, saying Kenny is "slow to bring in new faces" is hilarious given the huge amount of turnover he's overseen in the 3 years he's been in the job.
(Including 4 debuts in the last 4 games)
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Originally posted by Banana_RepublicFC Banana_RepublicFC wrote:

XI vs Greece:

Ferguson-----Obafemi

Knight

McClean----Cullen---Molumby---Doherty

Egan------Collins-----O'Shea

Bazunu

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

XI vs Gibraltar

Ferguson----Cannon

Manning------Smallbone----Hendrick-----Sykes

Cullen

Egan---------Collins------O'Shea

Bazunu

I highly doubt that Kenny will rotate that much vs Gibraltar though. Hopefully McNamara and Cannon get caps by the end of the 2 games. We're not going to play a team as weak as Gibraltar often. Any team we put out simply has to beat them or we are in trouble.

1-1 draw vs Greece

2-0 win vs Gibraltar


Big no to McClean, & to a lesser degree Knight, starting vs Greece. We need players who can hold on to the ball & use it well, especially in the heat, we want to make Greece do the running.
Ideally it would have been Manning, who has excelled as a creative outlet in a possession heavy Swansea (2nd only to Burnley over the season). O'Dowda will have to do.

Smallbone, or maybe McGrath, instead of Knight for the same reason.

Also, can't start Obafemi, he's only started 2 games since November, he'll get injured. Parrott or Idah to partner Ferguson, I'd lean towards Parrott as he's done it for Ireland & Idah hasn't, he's also started more games in the last few months.

O'Shea shouldn't start either, hasn't kicked a ball since France. Should be Lenihan.

         Ferguson     Parrott
                Smallbone
O'Dowda Cullen Molumby Doherty
        Lenihan Egan Collins
                  Bazunu

Originally posted by Banana_RepublicFC Banana_RepublicFC wrote:


I think Manning, Egan, Cullen, Smallbone and Ferguson were probably the top 5 standout Irish performers this season.

If Manning couldn't meet up because of a personal matter, that's fait enough. But we aren't in a position to be snubbing Championship players who are registering 5 goals & 10 assists.

McClean has been a good servant, but we really need to start moving on from him now that he's 34 and League One bound. Hopefully he gets his 100th cap and we then start phasing him out. 



I'd put Lenihan up there with those you've named as having a top season. And of course McNally with his half-season.

Completely agreed about McClean. His days in the Championship are finished (Wigan start next season with an 8 point deduction, & if they continue this seasons form they'll get hit with more. They won't be getting promoted).
He's old, visibly slowing down and League 1 simply isn't a good enough level, especially when we'll have at least 3 options playing at a higher level (Manning, O'Dowda, Brady), possibly more (Bagan, Furlong, Adaramola).
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The whole argument re Manning concentrating on his next club move doesn't sit with me. There are a serious amount of players across Europe who are looking for new clubs that would jump at the chance of representing their country.

This has always been the case and hardly an excuse for turning down a call up to represent your country. Also, theres an argument to be made that it would heighten his chances of getting the move he wants, if he played well in the qualifiers. If that even is the reason.
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Enjoyable catching up. 10 pages of Cannon panic LOL
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Doubt he's too concerned about Ireland considering he lost his accent and gained an English one after a few years living in England!
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Originally posted by Greenie50 Greenie50 wrote:


Originally posted by You Tell Me You Tell Me wrote:

Originally posted by Borussia Borussia wrote:

Originally posted by Fruice Fruice wrote:

I really can’t understand the Cannon situation.

Fair enough he hasn’t trained due to illness but the games are weeks away he has plenty of time to get ready.

We know he is a better finisher than some of our other options.

We all know Kenny is slow to bring new faces in so the best he was going to get was a substitute appearance.

I know I would much rather see him coming off the bench in Greece to get a goal rather than his team mate Parrot.

I just can’t see why Kenny does this to himself you have to have space in your squads for form players.

A great point - Why doesn't he give the likes of Jack Taylor a go in the squad? 

Especially as it has only just come to light that he is eligible and he hasn't been there to be called up for the last three years?! 

I'm sure Cannon will get a cap if he hangs around until he's 25 like Taylor has had to.


Not sure what you're on about there. Taylor played for our U21s in 2019, was called up to the seniors in 2020, and is in the squad now.


It was sarcasm - Taylor is a terrible example to use to back up an argument that Kenny is quick to bring in new players given that, as you note, he has been around for years, turns 25 this month and still hasn't yet won a single cap.
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Originally posted by You Tell Me You Tell Me wrote:

It was sarcasm - Taylor is a terrible example to use to back up an argument that Kenny is quick to bring in new players given that, as you note, he has been around for years, turns 25 this month and still hasn't yet won a single cap.


Would Kelleher, Bazunu, Collins, Knight, McGrath, Molumby, Ogbene, O'Shea, Ferguson ect; back up that argument?
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This was already discussed. Nobody disputes that he brought in his own players quickly when he took over, he had no choice but to anyway. As well as a few of the more obvious Irish developed talents later that any manager would look to call up - Bazunu, Omobamidele and Ferguson (who to be fair he brought in particularly early). For whatever reason he has tended to be generally slower with the English born lads for whatever reason.
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So, you used an example that is a "terrible argument" to "back up Kenny bringing in new players" but when theres a full list of players he brought in put in front of you, it's just brushed of as ah he had to bring them in, no other choice!

Seriously would you take a day off from the Kenny bashing. I get the criticism, I'm critical myself of the results, selections etc but putting every little detail down to Kenny is boring at this stage.
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