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Sky Sports to go bust?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Territorial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 2017 at 4:09pm
Originally posted by coyne coyne wrote:

How is this win-win Confused The pub industry is dying a slow death in the UK.

The only person who 'wins' from this is Sky, pubs cant afford Sky subscriptions these days, if they resort to foreign TV channels they get sued by the Premier League posing as Mystery shoppers fining them £20,000 putting them out of business.
Sorry, I meant this is Win/Win for SKY - people either go to watch their games in pubs which SKY are charging a fortune to show the games, or they stay at home and watch it on their own (SKY) subscription channel.

Agree that it is just one more problem that the beleagured British pub has to face.

Then again, SKY don't give a stuff about that, since pubs will never disappear entirely, so they'll always find outlets to sell subscriptions in every town or city in the country.


Edited by Territorial - 29 Jun 2017 at 4:10pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote coyne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 2017 at 4:13pm
Pubs would happily pay £18 month for the new Sky Sports Football. 

It would pay itself just after 2 live matches even with just an extra 1-2 people in.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trap junior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 2017 at 4:17pm
Originally posted by coyne coyne wrote:

Pubs would happily pay £18 month for the new Sky Sports Football. 

It would pay itself just after 2 live matches even with just an extra 1-2 people in.


They don't charge the pubs the same as a regular punter though.  They charge them a lot more for public showing of their channel
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 2017 at 4:18pm
Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Arsene Wenger identified it a few years after he came to England, when he said there was no other country in the world where so many people were so interested in football

I would disagree with that statement, based on my own experiences. The people that are interested in football are involved in it, either playing, coaching or as regular match goers. I find the casual interest to be quite limited, particular those of playing age. They are either players and fans, massive fans or have absolutely no interest at all.
Of course there are far more people in England who aren't interested in football than those who are.

But that's not the point.

For exactly the same applies in every other country, too, often more so.

What counts is those who are interested, and in that respect, English football has more fans, and wealthier ones at that, than just about any comparable football "market" (yuck).
There are more people, per capita, interested in English football in Ireland than in England, for example. Nations with a higher interest in football than England are numerous,  you do have a point in relation to money, but that is because what the tv deal and clubs charge, as opposed to the other way around.
Greed has won, big finance has won. Whatever small role elite clubs still play in the local communities from which they grew is dwarfed now by their position as global brands.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Territorial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 2017 at 4:18pm
Originally posted by coyne coyne wrote:

Pubs would happily pay £18 month for the new Sky Sports Football. 

It would pay itself just after 2 live matches even with just an extra 1-2 people in.
Except that there's no way SKY will sell them SSF for that low a fee, or even close.

These days, even an average pub in a sleepy market town in the middle of nowhere is being charged upwards of five figures a year to show SKY.

It's why so many are getting out of it, but clearly SKY can withstand that from their other revenue earners (home subscription, advertising, gambling etc), otherwise they'd lower their prices.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Territorial Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 2017 at 4:27pm
Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

There are more people, per capita, interested in English football in Ireland than in England, for example. Nations with a higher interest in football than England are numerous,  you do have a point in relation to money, but that is because what the tv deal and clubs charge, as opposed to the other way around.
We're talking about English football from the point of view of finances.

And in every respect, English football is wealthier than just about everywhere else i.e. attendances, admission prices, TV rights, commercialisation, corporate, sponsorship, gambling etc.

I mean, look at this:
"Manchester United have signed a new eight year multi-million pound sponsorship deal with American insurance company AON.
The deal is thought to be worth between £10m and £20m per year, and covers naming rights for Manchester United’s training ground Carrington.
Carrington will be known as the ‘AON Training Complex’ – this forms a central part of a wide-ranging deal that also includes sponsorship of Manchester United’s training kit, their annual summer tours and, for the first time, shirt sponsorship for friendly matches."

The Training Ground and Kit ffs!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 2017 at 4:30pm
Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

I think this argument that the English have the money and will pay it to be misleading, most of the money is foreign tv money for a start!
In TV terms, you'll find that the domestic market is still some way bigger than the overseas market, esp when you add in FL, FA Cup and England internationals. Though the overseas market clearly offers greater opportunity for future growth, as eg Asia (esp) gets wealthier.

The last deal, for the EPL alone, was roughly 50-50 at 5.3 billion(domestic) and 5.1  billion(overseas). I accept the extras are separate. 

But it's not just TV rights to be considered. Only Germany comes close to England when it comes to modern stadia capacities, but even if both the Bundesliga and EPL are 95% full each game, English fans are paying double or more to attend. And once they get there, the commercial exploitation by the clubs is on a different plane entirely (bar a handful of foreign clubs).
Correct, but that is due to choice and an acceptance by English fans that, even when resisted, sees their tickets go to tourists. The clubs don't lose.

On top of which, you have foreign billionaires pumping fortunes into buying and developing English clubs, even beyond the EPL, which is now pretty much tied up. These people can't all be idiots like the Venkys - they're billionaires because no matter how much money they already have, they're always on the lookout for the opportunity to earn more. And they came to English football first.
Because English football has the most money. They may not all be idiots but there can only be 20 clubs at the big trough, and you need to feed on that to make money, even with the figures in the championship you need to be relegated to get them. If you ignore local owners and those who are doing it to change their international perception, you have a lot more foreign owners than EPL places. Put simply, most people who invest in football still lose money so you either have to have an ulterior motive, be exceptionally shrewd or you are an idiot.

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Trying to find a pub with Sky these days is incredibly difficult, I live in a reasonable sized town and can only think of a few  places nearby, two of which are sports clubs. I would imagine that would reflect domestic sales, to an extent.
Difficult, but still hardly impossible.
Anyhow, SKY made a strategic decision a few years back to "sweat" the pubs as much as they could by hugely inflating the price they charge the pubs. (They actually demand to see the books to make sure they're not underselling themselves).
Having been in the business, I know. I also know a lot of pubs, depending on where they are based, are not interested in the hassle that comes with showing football. Nevertheless, it is a decent enough yardstick when I don't have the domestic subscription figures to hand.

This was on the basis that if the pubs will/can pay the huge fees, then great. But if they can't, then that will protect/boost home subscriptions. (Think about it, the pubs which pay SKY invariably have to put up their beer prices, so will end up serving those who can afford a few pints while watching the game of a Sunday. Meanwhile, those who can't/won't will just watch at home and have a few tins from the Offie - win/win all round for SKY)
Most of the pubs that show football would be 'cheaper' pubs anyway, competing with the local 'spoons.

(That said, they might have to re-think this strategy if BT provide stiffer competiution than previous rivals to SKY.)

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Add in the fact that around 1 million people who went to EPL games last year were 'football tourists' from abroad, which helps keep the ticket prices up. Anyone who has ever been anywhere like the '12 Pins' on a Saturday afternoon will have seen that.It is foreign interest that has kept the EPL in the financial luxury it enjoys, much more than local and how it sells itself recognises that. It is really the international streaming market that would effect the EPL clubs more.
The fact that so many foreign tourists come to England to watch the EPL is a strength, not a weakness.

But ultimately, this whole foreign interest, whether tourists, TV subscribers or club owners, all comes on the back of a healthy domestic game, involving full stadia and competitive games etc

In other words, it's easier to hype the sh*t out of eg Leicester vs Everton to gullible overseas subscribers than an equivalent game in Germany, Spain or Italy.

And I personally see little sign of that changing.

I agree with that, I wasn't saying it was a good or bad thing, merely an observation. I do think it will have an impact of the breakdown of the next tv deal.
Anyway, f**k the EPL, I have Cork City to watch.
Greed has won, big finance has won. Whatever small role elite clubs still play in the local communities from which they grew is dwarfed now by their position as global brands.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 2017 at 4:32pm
Originally posted by Territorial Territorial wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

There are more people, per capita, interested in English football in Ireland than in England, for example. Nations with a higher interest in football than England are numerous,  you do have a point in relation to money, but that is because what the tv deal and clubs charge, as opposed to the other way around.
We're talking about English football from the point of view of finances.

And in every respect, English football is wealthier than just about everywhere else i.e. attendances, admission prices, TV rights, commercialisation, corporate, sponsorship, gambling etc.

I mean, look at this:
"Manchester United have signed a new eight year multi-million pound sponsorship deal with American insurance company AON.
The deal is thought to be worth between £10m and £20m per year, and covers naming rights for Manchester United’s training ground Carrington.
Carrington will be known as the ‘AON Training Complex’ – this forms a central part of a wide-ranging deal that also includes sponsorship of Manchester United’s training kit, their annual summer tours and, for the first time, shirt sponsorship for friendly matches."

The Training Ground and Kit ffs!

Oh I agree, but that comes form the acceptance of English fans for being ridden rock solid, partly buying the 'best league mate' bollocks and the fact that even when they doresist the foreign market will replace them , one way or another.
Also, that Wenger quote was about football in general, not finances.


Edited by pre Madonna - 29 Jun 2017 at 4:32pm
Greed has won, big finance has won. Whatever small role elite clubs still play in the local communities from which they grew is dwarfed now by their position as global brands.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote coyne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 2017 at 4:38pm
I'm in Frankoes boat when it comes to the EPL nowadays, I just don't care about top level anymore.

Man Utd vs Man City doesn't interest me anymore.
Liverpool and Chelsea play a nice brand of football so I'll watch them from time to time.

I've kept more tabs on what's happened in League 1 than the EPL. And even when the LOI started I've kept more tabs on Galway Utd than I have on my hometown club of Sunderland !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote irishmufc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 2017 at 4:40pm
Originally posted by coyne coyne wrote:

I'm in Frankoes boat when it comes to the EPL nowadays, I just don't care about top level anymore.

Man Utd vs Man City doesn't interest me anymore.
Liverpool and Chelsea play a nice brand of football so I'll watch them from time to time.

I've kept more tabs on what's happened in League 1 than the EPL. And even when the LOI started I've kept more tabs on Galway Utd than I have on my hometown club of Sunderland !

Would that have anything to do with the fact Sunderland got relegated? LOLWink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote coyne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 2017 at 4:42pm
Originally posted by irishmufc irishmufc wrote:

Originally posted by coyne coyne wrote:

I'm in Frankoes boat when it comes to the EPL nowadays, I just don't care about top level anymore.

Man Utd vs Man City doesn't interest me anymore.
Liverpool and Chelsea play a nice brand of football so I'll watch them from time to time.

I've kept more tabs on what's happened in League 1 than the EPL. And even when the LOI started I've kept more tabs on Galway Utd than I have on my hometown club of Sunderland !

Would that have anything to do with the fact Sunderland got relegated? LOLWink

I was waiting for this, because I knew it was coming LOL

But I think it was the Chinese League which started it all off for me, and Sunderland did help fuel it I'm not gonna lie LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roberto Baggio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 2017 at 4:45pm
Common theme developing on YBIG.
There seem to be a lot of people who spend their days commenting on a league that they have all but lost interest in and stopped watching.
 
I'm off to join a Eredivisie fans forum here. Catch you guys later!
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote coyne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 2017 at 4:59pm
Originally posted by Roberto Baggio Roberto Baggio wrote:

Common theme developing on YBIG.
There seem to be a lot of people who spend their days commenting on a league that they have all but lost interest in and stopped watching.
 
I'm off to join a Eredivisie fans forum here. Catch you guys later!
 

It's common because everyone's sick of it! No one cares anymore if Man City signs Raul Bloggs from Valencia for £45 million and on £200,000 p/w 
Congratulations you've guaranteed yourself top 4, big wow.

Atleast the top Eredivisie teams generally don't go on shopping sprees but rather develop their highly talented youth academies which is more interesting to me so if you need another poster in that thread I'll join you!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote irishmufc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 2017 at 5:05pm
Originally posted by Roberto Baggio Roberto Baggio wrote:

Common theme developing on YBIG.
There seem to be a lot of people who spend their days commenting on a league that they have all but lost interest in and stopped watching.
 
I'm off to join a Eredivisie fans forum here. Catch you guys later!
 
 
 

LOL

Spot on. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 2017 at 5:25pm
Originally posted by Roberto Baggio Roberto Baggio wrote:

Common theme developing on YBIG.
There seem to be a lot of people who spend their days commenting on a league that they have all but lost interest in and stopped watching.
 
I'm off to join a Eredivisie fans forum here. Catch you guys later!
 
 
 
I think you are confusing interest in the actual football and an interest in the financial impact the English Premier League has both on the game here and abroad. I have an interest in English football, especially outside the top-flight and the EPL is having a detrimental effect on the game as a whole here. It should also be having a bigger impact internationally but, thankfully, from a football point of view most teams are being badly managed, hence the disparity between wages and success.
Greed has won, big finance has won. Whatever small role elite clubs still play in the local communities from which they grew is dwarfed now by their position as global brands.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Borussia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 2017 at 5:30pm
Originally posted by coyne coyne wrote:

Originally posted by Roberto Baggio Roberto Baggio wrote:

Common theme developing on YBIG.
There seem to be a lot of people who spend their days commenting on a league that they have all but lost interest in and stopped watching.
 
I'm off to join a Eredivisie fans forum here. Catch you guys later!
 

It's common because everyone's sick of it! No one cares anymore if Man City signs Raul Bloggs from Valencia for £45 million and on £200,000 p/w 
Congratulations you've guaranteed yourself top 4, big wow.

Atleast the top Eredivisie teams generally don't go on shopping sprees but rather develop their highly talented youth academies which is more interesting to me so if you need another poster in that thread I'll join you!

In fairness, his Championship Manager stats are through the roof. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Claret Murph Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 2017 at 9:08pm
Originally posted by coyne coyne wrote:

I'm in Frankoes boat when it comes to the EPL nowadays, I just don't care about top level anymore.

Man Utd vs Man City doesn't interest me anymore.
Liverpool and Chelsea play a nice brand of football so I'll watch them from time to time.

I've kept more tabs on what's happened in League 1 than the EPL. And even when the LOI started I've kept more tabs on Galway Utd than I have on my hometown club of Sunderland !
Go on,  Coyner i have to ask why Galway United ?????
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote coyne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 2017 at 9:15pm
Originally posted by Claret Murph Claret Murph wrote:

Originally posted by coyne coyne wrote:

I'm in Frankoes boat when it comes to the EPL nowadays, I just don't care about top level anymore.

Man Utd vs Man City doesn't interest me anymore.
Liverpool and Chelsea play a nice brand of football so I'll watch them from time to time.

I've kept more tabs on what's happened in League 1 than the EPL. And even when the LOI started I've kept more tabs on Galway Utd than I have on my hometown club of Sunderland !
Go on,  Coyner i have to ask why Galway United ?????

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