You Boys in Green Homepage YBIG Shop
Forum Home Forum Home : International : Republic Of Ireland
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Should we give up football?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login


Should we give up football?

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 222324
Author
Message
GaretFarellysNutSack View Drop Down
Kevin Kilbane
Kevin Kilbane


Joined: 11 Mar 2020
Status: Offline
Points: 388
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GaretFarellysNutSack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 2022 at 2:52pm
Originally posted by Bukowski Bukowski wrote:

No hope on the horizon. Pretty much zero decent prospects. Sigh.
I feel exactly the same way. Just watched Germany tear Japan apart time after time, it's out to the full back, then forward to a midfielder, forward, back, forward, back, shot, rinse repeat. It's so fast. We'd be circling back around then maybe eventually a cross would come in from near the corner flag. We are so far from being able to play at this level it's frightening.

We should be encouraging our young players to go to Belgium, Holland and other leagues.
Absolutely. In every facet of life we would be better served looking beyond the UK when we can. Look how much better than us the US men's team are now! - most of them play in Europe.


Yep, and also Japan are doing things our players couldn't even begin to attempt. And they're winning now. The only team I've seen we might beat so far are Qatar. 
I've learned now not to get excited about any prospect we have because time and time and time again they're all failing to become top or even middling players. 
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
Fruice View Drop Down
Liam Brady
Liam Brady


Joined: 22 Nov 2014
Location: Cork
Status: Offline
Points: 1096
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fruice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 2022 at 3:13pm
If anything this World Cup so far has given me hope we can compete.
Tunisia, Morocco, Japan and the Saudis all got results with between 24% and 40% possession.

We can definitely compete like this with top organisation and clear idea of how to transition forward with the ball to hit the opposing team on the break.

It’s the only way we can play we should be decent at the back and have pace up top with no creativity in mid field.

Why Kenny hasn’t concentrated on this is mad.

The next manager for me has to be some one who can implement this style effectively.
Back to Top
doherty View Drop Down
Jack Charlton
Jack Charlton

Teenage Kicks, so hard to beat

Joined: 30 Mar 2015
Status: Offline
Points: 5406
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote doherty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 2022 at 3:29pm
Originally posted by Fruice Fruice wrote:

If anything this World Cup so far has given me hope we can compete.
Tunisia, Morocco, Japan and the Saudis all got results with between 24% and 40% possession.

We can definitely compete like this with top organisation and clear idea of how to transition forward with the ball to hit the opposing team on the break.

It’s the only way we can play we should be decent at the back and have pace up top with no creativity in mid field.

Why Kenny hasn’t concentrated on this is mad.

The next manager for me has to be some one who can implement this style effectively.

All those sides are technically miles ahead of us. Miles and miles. Robert Miles
I love beer gardens
Back to Top
GaretFarellysNutSack View Drop Down
Kevin Kilbane
Kevin Kilbane


Joined: 11 Mar 2020
Status: Offline
Points: 388
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GaretFarellysNutSack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 2022 at 3:30pm
Exactly. Japan were always really quick and able to control the ball and pass it properly. We can barely take throw ins without it being a big mess, and that was the case before SK. 
Back to Top
Roberto Baggio View Drop Down
Robbie Keane
Robbie Keane
Avatar
UNBELIEVABLE JEFF

Joined: 28 Jan 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 35146
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Roberto Baggio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 2022 at 3:32pm
Originally posted by doherty doherty wrote:

Originally posted by Fruice Fruice wrote:

If anything this World Cup so far has given me hope we can compete.
Tunisia, Morocco, Japan and the Saudis all got results with between 24% and 40% possession.

We can definitely compete like this with top organisation and clear idea of how to transition forward with the ball to hit the opposing team on the break.

It’s the only way we can play we should be decent at the back and have pace up top with no creativity in mid field.

Why Kenny hasn’t concentrated on this is mad.

The next manager for me has to be some one who can implement this style effectively.

All those sides are technically miles ahead of us. Miles and miles. Robert Miles

They also all look better conditioned and fitter than our lads. 
Far more legs in the team and look like they can run all day
Back to Top
Fruice View Drop Down
Liam Brady
Liam Brady


Joined: 22 Nov 2014
Location: Cork
Status: Offline
Points: 1096
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fruice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 2022 at 3:34pm
And maybe so but with the little possession the key is to defensively organised because you are required to defend a lot.

And for sure they are far technically better than us so for us to be playing a slow turgid possession base system like Kenny does is mind boggling 

Back to Top
GaretFarellysNutSack View Drop Down
Kevin Kilbane
Kevin Kilbane


Joined: 11 Mar 2020
Status: Offline
Points: 388
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GaretFarellysNutSack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 2022 at 3:38pm
Originally posted by Fruice Fruice wrote:

And maybe so but with the little possession the key is to defensively organised because you are required to defend a lot.

And for sure they are far technically better than us so for us to be playing a slow turgid possession base system like Kenny does is mind boggling 


if we sorted the defense we wouldn't be quick or fit enough for the breaks like Japan, and we'd need to know how to pass the ball forward and be technically efficient enough for a good first touch
Back to Top
You Tell Me View Drop Down
Ray Houghton
Ray Houghton


Joined: 05 Sep 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 4121
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote You Tell Me Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 2022 at 3:58pm
I wouldn't be overly focused on the technical side of it. No, we're not as technically capable as many teams, but we never have been and have dealt with those limitations successfully in the past.

The number 1 thing we have to fix is the leaky defence, it's very unlike us to be conceding as many as we have been in the last couple of years. If we can get back to conceding 0 or 1 in the majority of games we'll always have a chance of a result. We actually do have the players at the back to achieve this with an appropriate setup.

After that we need to focus on how we play when we have the ball. We have always been at our best when we have had a bit of physicality and aggression in our game to compensate for our technical deficiencies. 

Even under Kenny, I would argue that it wasn't a coincidence that our best result of his time in charge came against Scotland. The nature of that game as a local derby almost forced us into playing with a higher level of aggression and physicality than we have generally done under him, and that suited our midfielders who, as we know, are limited enough players technically (apart from Cullen). We then took the momentum from that into the Ukraine game, but it was lost again after that.

So that would be the template for me going forward - back to the future in terms of the defence and then use the Scotland home game as a template for how we could dictate play and be effective, without resorting back to the old long ball rubbish, which is well past it's time now anyway.
Back to Top
Bukowski View Drop Down
Kevin Kilbane
Kevin Kilbane
Avatar

Joined: 06 Jun 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 257
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bukowski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 2022 at 4:30pm
YTM, yes the Scotland is us at our most effective, against a team who play at tempo, and we win the ball from aggressive chaos. Against teams like Malta who are not good enough to play at tempo we fall into a stupor and have no idea what to do.
"The third path to wisdom is experience, and is the most bitter."
Back to Top
kevin100 View Drop Down
Liam Brady
Liam Brady


Joined: 01 Jul 2020
Location: Mallow
Status: Offline
Points: 2414
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kevin100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 2022 at 5:18pm
Originally posted by GaretFarellysNutSack GaretFarellysNutSack wrote:

Originally posted by Bukowski Bukowski wrote:

No hope on the horizon. Pretty much zero decent prospects. Sigh.
I feel exactly the same way. Just watched Germany tear Japan apart time after time, it's out to the full back, then forward to a midfielder, forward, back, forward, back, shot, rinse repeat. It's so fast. We'd be circling back around then maybe eventually a cross would come in from near the corner flag. We are so far from being able to play at this level it's frightening.

We should be encouraging our young players to go to Belgium, Holland and other leagues.
Absolutely. In every facet of life we would be better served looking beyond the UK when we can. Look how much better than us the US men's team are now! - most of them play in Europe.


Yep, and also Japan are doing things our players couldn't even begin to attempt. And they're winning now. The only team I've seen we might beat so far are Qatar. 
I've learned now not to get excited about any prospect we have because time and time and time again they're all failing to become top or even middling players. 
 

Some boys really are incredibly negative! Bazunu Kelleher Collins Omobamidele all players most countries (outside the big 7/8 with players coming out their ears) would be delighted to have as young prospects 

The England problem is a massive issue and theirs nothing wrong with the PL or even the Championship for younger players 18-22/23 problem is most our boys when they don’t get the PL move they just stay in their comfort zone settling for 2nd tier football in the Championship throughout their career! 

Hence a load of average Championship players. Browne Robinson O’Shea,O’Dowda all players playing the other night that have gone massively backwards overtime having looked promising in their early 20s!


Edited by kevin100 - 23 Nov 2022 at 5:25pm
Back to Top
dangere_here View Drop Down
Ronnie Whelan
Ronnie Whelan


Joined: 24 Nov 2018
Status: Offline
Points: 68
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dangere_here Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 2022 at 5:31pm
Originally posted by Terzino Terzino wrote:

"Put 'em under pressure" has probably been around since football started to develop different tactics and strategies. 

However, if you were to credit it to one country then Holland would have to be the stand out. There's loads of footage from the 1974 World Cup of them hunting and harrying opponents for the ball.

And from that team there is a straight line from Cruyff to Barcelona, and their great teams of the recent past, who had "the 6 second rule" or their own version of "put 'em under pressure".


To an extent yes the total football sides of the 1970s did run around and harry a lot, but the objective would have been totally different. They were able to play 10 outfield players with excellent attacking technique, footballing intelligence, skill and so on, on the counter and often throwing caution to the wind. I would say pressing there was more a symptom of their system, rather than a central focus. I would say that Dutch side has a lot of similarities to the modern press in football, and attacking in numbers and so on.

Whereas with Charlton and Saachi, the objective was not to let the opposition defence bring the ball forward, which was the norm particularly in the 1980s where you had sweepers literally walking the ball over the halfway line unopposed. Combined then with runners into the channels and keeping their defence and midfield occupied at the wrong end of the pitch. Unsettling the opposition was the name of the game, whereas Ruud Krol and Neeskens would have been running around fairly comfortably knowing there's another 5 or 6 lads joining every attack. 
Back to Top
eddiebro View Drop Down
Kevin Kilbane
Kevin Kilbane
Avatar

Joined: 16 Jan 2019
Location: Dublin
Status: Offline
Points: 209
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eddiebro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 2022 at 5:39pm
Yeah Japans team aren’t playing for a combination of Wigan, Preston and MK Dons. No disrespect to the lower English teams but Jason Knight tore apart Luxembourg when he came on against a team that had players based throughout Europe in technically good leagues. Championship and League 1 are physically tough leagues to play in but Jack Byrne any time he’s played for Ireland hasn’t looked out of place playing for Ireland but struggle. McGrath was our MOTM v Malta struggled at Wigan. Byrne himself also struggled. Our reliance on these leagues has to stop if we’re ever going to compete because it takes a special talent like Bazunu to actually jump from league 1 to starting premier league no1 without a rough year or two in the championship which is not going to compliment our good technical players anyway
Back to Top
Terzino View Drop Down
Kevin Kilbane
Kevin Kilbane


Joined: 06 Apr 2016
Status: Offline
Points: 442
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Terzino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 2022 at 9:48pm
The Japanese created the J-League in the 90s, and it has developed into a league of neat passing teams. And that is what you expect from the Japanese national team today.

If we wish to replicate what they have done, then it starts with the League of Ireland, which currently works minor miracles considering the lack of investment.


On the topic of pressing, I'd say the biggest factor in its development was the change to the back pass rule. Previously, teams under pressure could just knock it back to the keeper.

The Dutch pressing in the 70s was part of their off-side trap. Rush the man with the ball, and force him to knock it long to players standing off-side.
Back to Top
GaretFarellysNutSack View Drop Down
Kevin Kilbane
Kevin Kilbane


Joined: 11 Mar 2020
Status: Offline
Points: 388
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GaretFarellysNutSack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 2022 at 11:27pm
The Japanese have 90 million people or something and great facilities and infrastructure for sport.
Canada looked amazing this evening. Last time we played them was 2003 and we hammered them 3-0. 
Look how they've advanced to this great young team with a top player like Davies and we've just totally gone to sh*te with no hope on the horizon. Oh how the turns have tabled. 
Back to Top
Bukowski View Drop Down
Kevin Kilbane
Kevin Kilbane
Avatar

Joined: 06 Jun 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 257
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bukowski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 2022 at 11:34pm
I watched the Germany Japan game this morning, and reading the reports now I just read this:

   As the centre-back Maya Yoshida said: “We changed the shape. Jamal Musiala and Müller were in pockets all the time and we struggled to catch them. We tried to go three at the back. After that, they struggled a bit and we did much better.”

I would fall out of bed if I read a current Irish player coming out with something like that. Maybe I'm past giving them enough credit but I just don't see it right now.
"The third path to wisdom is experience, and is the most bitter."
Back to Top
Jimmy Raggatip View Drop Down
500 Club la la la
500 Club la la la


Joined: 28 May 2018
Status: Offline
Points: 592
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jimmy Raggatip Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 2022 at 11:48pm
Canada is who we should be trying to emulate.

Yes they have 2 or 3 game changers now but the rest of their squad is a rag tag bunch of misfits, they took the game to Belgium didn't try and become hostage to fortune, which is what continually playing games with only 25 to 40% possession would be, eventually you run out of luck doing that
Back to Top
Trap junior View Drop Down
Robbie Keane
Robbie Keane
Avatar
YBIG Minister of Doom & Gloom

Joined: 25 Jan 2010
Location: Irish Riviera
Status: Offline
Points: 36505
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trap junior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 2022 at 11:52pm
Insert pathetic Baldrick post below
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 222324
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.00
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.