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Should we give up football?

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Ray Houghton
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote You Tell Me Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2022 at 4:57pm
Originally posted by GaretFarellysNutSack GaretFarellysNutSack wrote:

Originally posted by You Tell Me You Tell Me wrote:

It's more that a lot of people simply dislike accepting that they were wrong about Kenny.

what irish managers were people ever right about?

The successful ones, mostly. People were generally happy enough when both Trap and MON were hired for instance, and that was justified in both cases by subsequent tournament qualifications. 
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Jack Charlton
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Het-field Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2022 at 5:21pm
People were ecstatic with Trapp, apart from the fact that he was known for being conservative. It took four years for the mentality to shift. MON was generally sweet until 2017, so was in the job 4 years before fans turned.

Most were happy with those appointments that yielded two Euros and two WC Play Offs.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trap junior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2022 at 5:25pm
Most managers best time in charge is in the first 4 years.  After that it goes stale.  Players get tired of hearing the same message so either get new players in or they get you out.

I remember hearing about Arrigo Sacchi at AC Milan.  His first 2 or 3 years were phenomenal but the training was really intense and the players after a while got sick of the relentlessness effort of it and the team went a bit dodgy and then he was appointed Italy manager
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TooOldForThis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2022 at 5:26pm
Originally posted by Bukowski Bukowski wrote:

E2016 and YTM,  leaving aside whether or not the points you make again and again and again about SK are 100% the truth the way and the light, the constant shoehorning of this into every thread is f*****g tiring. It really is. It's not like this is a percentage game, where the more times you state your absolutist position on this the more likelihood it will be accepted as objective reality by the rest of us, and will spread from us to our partners and friends, and ripple out into wider society ans lo and behold one bright shining day the FAI will be so overwhelmed with this tidal wave of TRUTH that Kenny will be sacked and we can start over at another year zero. It's just not that interesting to most of us, and is spamming at this point.
If you have an actual counter argument to the points raised by these posters maybe you might attempt to make it? But instead we get personalised insults such as childish muck. 
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Jack Charlton
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Het-field Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2022 at 5:29pm
Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

Most managers best time in charge is in the first 4 years.  After that it goes stale.  Players get tired of hearing the same message so either get new players in or they get you out.

I remember hearing about Arrigo Sacchi at AC Milan.  His first 2 or 3 years were phenomenal but the training was really intense and the players after a while got sick of the relentlessness effort of it and the team went a bit dodgy and then he was appointed Italy manager

Big Jack was really exceptional. In reality it was 8 years before anybody thought of a future beyond Jack, and even at that it wasn’t really spoken of. In modern times, I think he might have gone after the WC. But in those days managers were there longer, and it was only after the wheels came off totally that fans were probably agreeable to opening a new chapter.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TooOldForThis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2022 at 5:33pm
Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

Most managers best time in charge is in the first 4 years.  After that it goes stale.  Players get tired of hearing the same message so either get new players in or they get you out.

I remember hearing about Arrigo Sacchi at AC Milan.  His first 2 or 3 years were phenomenal but the training was really intense and the players after a while got sick of the relentlessness effort of it and the team went a bit dodgy and then he was appointed Italy manager

Big Jack was really exceptional. In reality it was 8 years before anybody thought of a future beyond Jack, and even at that it wasn’t really spoken of. In modern times, I think he might have gone after the WC. But in those days managers were there longer, and it was only after the wheels came off totally that fans were probably agreeable to opening a new chapter.
Just curious but was Jack the first manager in international football to deploy a high press?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trap junior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2022 at 5:35pm
Originally posted by TooOldForThis TooOldForThis wrote:

Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

Most managers best time in charge is in the first 4 years.  After that it goes stale.  Players get tired of hearing the same message so either get new players in or they get you out.

I remember hearing about Arrigo Sacchi at AC Milan.  His first 2 or 3 years were phenomenal but the training was really intense and the players after a while got sick of the relentlessness effort of it and the team went a bit dodgy and then he was appointed Italy manager

Big Jack was really exceptional. In reality it was 8 years before anybody thought of a future beyond Jack, and even at that it wasn’t really spoken of. In modern times, I think he might have gone after the WC. But in those days managers were there longer, and it was only after the wheels came off totally that fans were probably agreeable to opening a new chapter.
Just curious but was Jack the first manager in international football to deploy a high press?


He liked to claim he was.  I'm not sure tbh.
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Jack Charlton
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Het-field Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2022 at 5:36pm
I recall on the video ‘The Charlton Years’ that we got for free at the Russia friendly in 1996, he certainly mentioned that FIFA called it ‘pressing’ and that was referring to Ireland’s strategy to ‘Put em under pressure’. It was see as the first time it was referred to. So the legend is creditable.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trap junior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2022 at 5:37pm
Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

I recall on the video ‘The Charlton Years’ that we got for free at the Russia friendly in 1996, he certainly mentioned that FIFA called it ‘pressing’ and that was referring to Ireland’s strategy to ‘Put em under pressure’. It was see as the first time it was referred to. So the legend is creditable.


Portugal friendly 1996Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Het-field Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2022 at 5:55pm
Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

I recall on the video ‘The Charlton Years’ that we got for free at the Russia friendly in 1996, he certainly mentioned that FIFA called it ‘pressing’ and that was referring to Ireland’s strategy to ‘Put em under pressure’. It was see as the first time it was referred to. So the legend is creditable.


Portugal friendly 1996Wink

Are you sure!?! The ticket stubs for the Russian game were slightly smaller than was the style at the time due to the voucher that was handed in to redeem the video.

I’m open to correction, and it might have been given out twice. But I got it at the Russia game and didn’t go to the Portuguese one!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trap junior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2022 at 6:13pm
Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

I recall on the video ‘The Charlton Years’ that we got for free at the Russia friendly in 1996, he certainly mentioned that FIFA called it ‘pressing’ and that was referring to Ireland’s strategy to ‘Put em under pressure’. It was see as the first time it was referred to. So the legend is creditable.


Portugal friendly 1996Wink

Are you sure!?! The ticket stubs for the Russian game were slightly smaller than was the style at the time due to the voucher that was handed in to redeem the video.

I’m open to correction, and it might have been given out twice. But I got it at the Russia game and didn’t go to the Portuguese one!


You are right actually.  Was at both of them but thought I picked it up at the Portugal game but I am mistaken.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BabbsBalls Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2022 at 9:41pm
If Saipan is our main talking point during a world cup in 2022, yes, we definitely should.
l hear you are a racist now, father ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Terzino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2022 at 9:57pm
"Put 'em under pressure" has probably been around since football started to develop different tactics and strategies. 

However, if you were to credit it to one country then Holland would have to be the stand out. There's loads of footage from the 1974 World Cup of them hunting and harrying opponents for the ball.

And from that team there is a straight line from Cruyff to Barcelona, and their great teams of the recent past, who had "the 6 second rule" or their own version of "put 'em under pressure".


Edited by Terzino - 22 Nov 2022 at 9:57pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote B6 6HE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 2022 at 8:12am

Souness handled that very well

Roy says WC shouldn't be in Qatar. So what is Roy doing in Qatar????
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Newryrep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 2022 at 10:04am
Originally posted by BabbsBalls BabbsBalls wrote:

If Saipan is our main talking point during a world cup in 2022, yes, we definitely should.

This 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GaretFarellysNutSack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 2022 at 10:35am
Originally posted by Newryrep Newryrep wrote:

Originally posted by BabbsBalls BabbsBalls wrote:

If Saipan is our main talking point during a world cup in 2022, yes, we definitely should.

This 

Yes it's so sad that that's the most active thread at the moment. Nothing to be excited about right now when it comes to our international team. No hope on the horizon. Pretty much zero decent prospects. Sigh. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eddiebro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 2022 at 12:17pm

There’s an argument also that the lower English leagues don’t compliment the more technical less physical aspects of the international game and we should be encouraging our young players to go to Belgium, Holland and other leagues that will compliment this aspect of their game more that the rough and tumble of league 1 with limited prospects for promotion outside of the championship.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bukowski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 2022 at 2:06pm
No hope on the horizon. Pretty much zero decent prospects. Sigh.
I feel exactly the same way. Just watched Germany tear Japan apart time after time, it's out to the full back, then forward to a midfielder, forward, back, forward, back, shot, rinse repeat. It's so fast. We'd be circling back around then maybe eventually a cross would come in from near the corner flag. We are so far from being able to play at this level it's frightening.

We should be encouraging our young players to go to Belgium, Holland and other leagues.
Absolutely. In every facet of life we would be better served looking beyond the UK when we can. Look how much better than us the US men's team are now! - most of them play in Europe.

"The third path to wisdom is experience, and is the most bitter."
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