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Should we give up football?

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Liam Brady
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kevin100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Mar 2021 at 12:26am
Originally posted by zizu Kilbane zizu Kilbane wrote:

Originally posted by davekoolhill davekoolhill wrote:

Really interesting comparisons with other European countries in terms of competing sports. (e.g cycling in Belgium/France, Basketball in the Balkans, Ice Hockey etc). 

Does anyone know what position football comes in those countries in relation to state funding?

How would they compare to Ireland's yearly funding? I believe the below relates to last government budget, so hope the numbers are correct. 

1. Horse Racing - €76m
2. GAA - €30m
3. Greyhound Racing - €20m
4. Rugby - €18m
5. Football - €13m 


But from a state funding perspective, baring in mind there were bailouts etc in previous years, I think this gives us an idea of where football ranks in this country. 

I'd like to see a similar list for the likes of Belgium, Denmark, Netherlands etc and see where football comes.


This on the face of it is scandalous. What is the background and justification for the dogs getting so much funding?
 

Essentially they employ 1000s and 1000s of people and brings in about 200-300m to the Irish economy. It’s essentially an investment.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Banjaxed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Mar 2021 at 1:02am
Originally posted by kevin100 kevin100 wrote:

Originally posted by zizu Kilbane zizu Kilbane wrote:

Originally posted by davekoolhill davekoolhill wrote:

Really interesting comparisons with other European countries in terms of competing sports. (e.g cycling in Belgium/France, Basketball in the Balkans, Ice Hockey etc). 

Does anyone know what position football comes in those countries in relation to state funding?

How would they compare to Ireland's yearly funding? I believe the below relates to last government budget, so hope the numbers are correct. 

1. Horse Racing - €76m
2. GAA - €30m
3. Greyhound Racing - €20m
4. Rugby - €18m
5. Football - €13m 


But from a state funding perspective, baring in mind there were bailouts etc in previous years, I think this gives us an idea of where football ranks in this country. 

I'd like to see a similar list for the likes of Belgium, Denmark, Netherlands etc and see where football comes.


This on the face of it is scandalous. What is the background and justification for the dogs getting so much funding?
 

Essentially they employ 1000s and 1000s of people and brings in about 200-300m to the Irish economy. It’s essentially an investment.

It's mad though. Horse racing and greyhound racing exist only on the back of the gambling industry. Who the hell is going to watch a horse race for the craic? All other sporting industries would still garner an audience without gambling.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote belgradeboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Mar 2021 at 1:38am
Hi guys,

I just want to support you in "hard times".
I know how you feel ,the same we felt in last several years (and also have the same feeling now), but now they're somehow trying to lick our wounds.  In our case the problem was in FA and corrupted and mafiosi system in all levels. You can find open letter from Nemanja Vidic, lad explained everything....

You will never give up football, football is your passion, hey, you have a football forum regarding your national team, we don't have such a thing. In Serbia, only Partizan and Red Star are important, and people are arguing about which team has more players in NT , and why Partizan player doesn't play instead of Red Star's player. Complete chaos...retards.

You need a system, healthy system,from bottom to the top in all segments of FA, Serbia also needs the same.

You will be the good old Ireland again, don't worry.

You can't imagine how much Serbs loves you and respects you, especially as a nation.

Cheers, my Celtic brothers!!!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Huntacha Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Mar 2021 at 8:55am
Just a heads up, but this is going to be a long-winded post. I moved to what I'd class as my home town in 2001. At the time, the football club was bigger in terms of participation numbers, than the GAA club (I'm speaking solely about football here, because hurling in Meath is largely irrelevant). Our schoolboy sides were all generally competitive in the NDSL. There were plenty of teams per age group, and, for the time, there was quite a high number of girls playing too. The location of both the football and GAA club are at opposite ends of the village. However, the GAA club is accessible by foot, where the football club is not. 

In the intervening years, the GAA has accessed 3 or 4 new pitches close to the original senior pitch, revamped the clubhouse to include a gym, function room and bar and better training pitches. In that same time, the football put in a brutal astro which is dangerous to train on, the changing rooms have gotten worse year to year, and in the 14 years I played senior football, I can't remember having a warm shower after a game. There are great people involved in the club who have literally put their houses on the line for the club, but there is a real lack of progressive thinking in comparison to the GAA club in terms of fund-raising and improving the facilities, along with engagement with the community.

I'd imagine this is a similar situation for the majority of football clubs around the country. Yes, the GAA club have gotten huge grants from local authorities, while we've never received a penny. But they've also shown huge initiative in terms of re-connecting with the community and ensuring that participation numbers are now greater than the football club. I'm truly envious of their fundraising and the progressive thinking of those involved in their club.

It's an easy way out to use the GAA as an excuse, but clubs all over need to look themselves and analyse where they're going wrong. An idea I've long thought about is for our club to sell our pitches, and pay for the redevelopment of the school pitches (possibly put in floodlights and a 4g to ensure Friday night football, encouraging greater participation than 11am ko's on a Sunday morning). Yes, it's a fanciful idea and possibly overly simplistic, and who knows if the school would be able, or interested in this partnership. But surely it's worth exploring; the football club is right in the centre of the community again, and the school possibly gets a brand new astro turf in great condition to use for PE classes, etc.

Aside from the obvious draining of resources which occurred under Delaney, for which we are going to suffer for years, lack of progressive thinking has held us back at all levels. Pre-covid, we've seen it happen in the LoI with clubs establishing a greater presence in their communities. This needs to be the case for grassroots clubs around the country. Time to stop using the GAA and Rugby as easy excuses, and have a look at ourselves instead.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Newryrep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Mar 2021 at 9:02am
don’t think people are saying that football isn’t competing against GAA but it’s the unique situation bollix that is used as if other countries don’t have competing sports that hardly register in Ireland 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Newryrep Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Mar 2021 at 9:09am
Originally posted by belgradeboy belgradeboy wrote:

Hi guys,

I just want to support you in "hard times".
I know how you feel ,the same we felt in last several years (and also have the same feeling now), but now they're somehow trying to lick our wounds.  In our case the problem was in FA and corrupted and mafiosi system in all levels. You can find open letter from Nemanja Vidic, lad explained everything....

You will never give up football, football is your passion, hey, you have a football forum regarding your national team, we don't have such a thing. In Serbia, only Partizan and Red Star are important, and people are arguing about which team has more players in NT , and why Partizan player doesn't play instead of Red Star's player. Complete chaos...retards.

You need a system, healthy system,from bottom to the top in all segments of FA, Serbia also needs the same.

You will be the good old Ireland again, don't worry.

You can't imagine how much Serbs loves you and respects you, especially as a nation.

Cheers, my Celtic brothers!!!



Good man BB hope to make it back to Belgrade at some stage 
'Irish' Songs for an Irish team - no SPL EPL generic sh*te
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote notpropaganda73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Mar 2021 at 9:38am
Originally posted by MayoMark MayoMark wrote:

If we think we aren't competing with them, then we have a massive problem.

I'll give you an example.

What does a GAA club offer a young lad who loves both gaelic and soccer in Mayo? Well if you do well you could make senior, you might get called up to the Mayo minor /u20 team. We could win the club championship. What then? It's a straight shot to Croke Park. Dream stuff. But a reality they see first hand as some of their friends have already made senior, one or two called up to county. Their club mate has played in Croke Park.

Now what do we have? Well if you play well enough Sligo Rovers might come looking to bring you into their u17 team. That is if they know you exist. But what about Mayo? Well they don't have an u17 team so forget about that. OK, but we could win a national title? We could! And that would be amazing. Where is that played? The Aviva? God no, forget about that. It might be in Terryland, or a field in Clare, or in Castlebar if we are the "home" team.

You see what I mean? This is a simple fix for one issue. Why are national finals not all played in our national stadium? This is basic stuff. Whatever way you look at it, if I am trying to win the hearts and minds of young people here, how can I compete with the chance for them to play in Croke Park for their county?

Sorry MM I agree with all that, when I said we're not competing what I meant was that in the vast majority of the country, kids don't need convinced to play soccer, they already love it. There's not much "selling" that needs to go on, it's other things like structures and pathways to success that they're missing, which is essentially what you're saying there. 

Also I know you've mentioned but Mayo is probably a special case, yous are GAA mad there. Speaking from my own POV I know lads at home that have left U21 squads to go play with Keadue Rovers because there was a rumour of an SPL scout being about, one lad turned down a call up to the senior panel because he was prepping for a trial with Tranmere Rovers. One of the best corner backs I ever saw at underage level went and played for Harps instead because he just preferred soccer. 

Just what I mean is that lads get their heads turned away from GAA pretty easily in some cases and that the FAI/football in this country takes that for granted in a lot of ways. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thebronze14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Mar 2021 at 10:42am
Originally posted by notpropaganda73 notpropaganda73 wrote:

I find some of PM's comments pretty interesting tbh, as a big GAA head myself. I think calling it Soviet is sorta interesting, because I've seen amazing stuff being done at club level for communities, and when things are moving in sync it's a really great thing to see, people rallying around those in need etc. It does form a pretty special relationship in local areas I've found. There is something very special about that when it happens, but I don't think it's unique to GAA clubs really, any local sports club can do the same thing. 

But by the same token I've seen real clannish, clique type nonsense because you get the wrong types in and around the administration of a club, and because of the power of the club in a locality it can have really negative effects for those outside the inner circle.  

As for football competing with the GAA, I don't really think Irish football needs to be thinking about competing with them. The truth is we piss away participation, there is a lot of good will towards soccer in this country, kids love the sport and if the structures and pathways were there, they would stick with it, but we all know the scéal with the FAI over the last decades. 

Good post. I have played for 3 GAA clubs in my time and saw a good bit of that. At home I found the GAA club very clannish and favouring certain parts of the parish etc. Last played 13/14 years ago so maybe this has changed. They have reaped what they have sown as one of the biggeset clubs in the county is now playing in the lower divisions. In football though we had some great coaches. I was going to quit at 16 but the manager at the time pestered me until I came back. He made me feel like I was a good footballer and gave me confidence to keep growing and then became involved in the senior team when I was there. Haven't played for them since I was 21 but plan moving back home next year making a comeback at 35! In that time the coaches would always enquire in what I was doing and how I was getting on. In GAA which I quit around the same time, in which I was probably better at, there was zero attempt to get me back at it and neither the other lads that quit at same time. They have reaped what they have sown as the two clubs have gone in opposite trajectorys.

Went back playing GAA for a small club in Dublin and my experience is completely the opposite. A small group of volunteers but open to all. In my early days I turned up to a few matches in awful states hungover/still drunk but thy always brought me back and made me feel welcome. Playing both sports was encouraged and if I missed training for football training instead they understood. Couldn't be more different from my experience of GAA growing up. I think the club at home have learned now though which is good
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fruice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Mar 2021 at 11:25am
Originally posted by The Huntacha The Huntacha wrote:

Just a heads up, but this is going to be a long-winded post. I moved to what I'd class as my home town in 2001. At the time, the football club was bigger in terms of participation numbers, than the GAA club (I'm speaking solely about football here, because hurling in Meath is largely irrelevant). Our schoolboy sides were all generally competitive in the NDSL. There were plenty of teams per age group, and, for the time, there was quite a high number of girls playing too. The location of both the football and GAA club are at opposite ends of the village. However, the GAA club is accessible by foot, where the football club is not. 

In the intervening years, the GAA has accessed 3 or 4 new pitches close to the original senior pitch, revamped the clubhouse to include a gym, function room and bar and better training pitches. In that same time, the football put in a brutal astro which is dangerous to train on, the changing rooms have gotten worse year to year, and in the 14 years I played senior football, I can't remember having a warm shower after a game. There are great people involved in the club who have literally put their houses on the line for the club, but there is a real lack of progressive thinking in comparison to the GAA club in terms of fund-raising and improving the facilities, along with engagement with the community.

I'd imagine this is a similar situation for the majority of football clubs around the country. Yes, the GAA club have gotten huge grants from local authorities, while we've never received a penny. But they've also shown huge initiative in terms of re-connecting with the community and ensuring that participation numbers are now greater than the football club. I'm truly envious of their fundraising and the progressive thinking of those involved in their club.

It's an easy way out to use the GAA as an excuse, but clubs all over need to look themselves and analyse where they're going wrong. An idea I've long thought about is for our club to sell our pitches, and pay for the redevelopment of the school pitches (possibly put in floodlights and a 4g to ensure Friday night football, encouraging greater participation than 11am ko's on a Sunday morning). Yes, it's a fanciful idea and possibly overly simplistic, and who knows if the school would be able, or interested in this partnership. But surely it's worth exploring; the football club is right in the centre of the community again, and the school possibly gets a brand new astro turf in great condition to use for PE classes, etc.

Aside from the obvious draining of resources which occurred under Delaney, for which we are going to suffer for years, lack of progressive thinking has held us back at all levels. Pre-covid, we've seen it happen in the LoI with clubs establishing a greater presence in their communities. This needs to be the case for grassroots clubs around the country. Time to stop using the GAA and Rugby as easy excuses, and have a look at ourselves instead.
That sounds like a lot of clubs down our way in fairness to the gaa the clubs in a lot of situations are more established and better set up to take on projects and we are playing catch up.
Just take an example of the power the gaa has the cork county board changed the set up of their county board draw and put minimum targets on the number of tickets(€100 for the year) a club must sell depending on their grade 100 for senior clubs and down to 60 for the junior clubs if you didn’t got your target the club must make up the difference but anything over the target the full amount went to the clubs.
It finished last week with €1.9 million euros going back directly to the clubs with some clubs make over 50k.
This is fierce going.

The FAI have improved over the last 18 months they have got a lot more involved with all levels of the grassroots.
They ran a fantastic series of webinars on applications for the sports capital grant they know their clubs for the most part are behind other associations in terms of facilities but their clubs simply wereNot applying enough and thus missing out.
There is money to be got you just need to do a bit of work to find out how to get it.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Southstandman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Mar 2021 at 11:49am
This threads a hard read men. Every excuse/reason dissected into their atomic structure bar what the obvious problem is . Most of you are obviously Ireland fans but dont give a toss re the LOI - as has been pointed out many a time on the forum . Thats ok - long as you dont expect ROI to be successful . How many times have we hoped for the playoffs or hope another Scotland v Belgium result of many moons ago to get us to a final will reoccur . We are nobodies and will remain so as long as we dont face up to the ""bleedin obvious"". Support the LOI . This brings revenue in and keeps lads here in Ireland to play their ball . This nurtures loyalty to the team , the area the team plays in and the city and so on . This is the way all over the world with successful countries . We may never win a WC but ffs ,,Saturday night ??? . There is an old saying - if it aint broken dont fix it . We Irish have to think the opposite . 

Edited by Southstandman - 29 Mar 2021 at 12:11pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zinedine Kilbane 110 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Mar 2021 at 12:13pm
Originally posted by Southstandman Southstandman wrote:

This threads a hard read men. Every excuse/reason dissected into their atomic structure bar what the obvious problem is . Most of you are obviously Ireland fans but dont give a toss re the LOI - as has been pointed out many a time on the forum . Thats ok - long as you dont expect ROI to be successful . How many times have we hoped for the playoffs or hope another Scotland v Belgium result of many moons ago to get us to a final will reoccur . We are nobodies and will remain so as long as we dont face up to the ""bleedin obvious"". Support the LOI . This brings revenue in and keeps lads here in Ireland to play their ball . This nurtures loyalty to the team , the area the team plays in and the city and so on . This is the way all over the world with successful countries . We may never win a WC but ffs ,,last night ??? . There is an old saying - if it aint broken dont fix it . We Irish have to think the opposite . 

Not just LOI, but the more money that is put into local football teams and coaching the better.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MayoMark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Mar 2021 at 12:22pm
I have already said it that a stronger domestic league will lead to a stronger national team. Its far from the only reason. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MayoMark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Mar 2021 at 12:23pm
Agree fruice. There are some great people involved with the FAI currently in terms of coach Ed etc. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote t_rAndy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Mar 2021 at 12:56pm
Having a stronger national league would for sure make an improvement to the national team but it's not the only answer and for me, probably not the main answer in terms of improving the national team. But it should definitely be a focus area.

Look at the Scottish. We could only dream to have a league as well supported with the infrastructure that is prevalent throughout the Scottish league. But it hasn't really been improving their fortunes of late. How many quality players have been produced from the system in the last 25 years? 
Cypriot league another example of a strong league, not the best international side.

On the flip side, look at Belgium. Very average league, top international side.

If we really want to produce the best players, we need to try to recreate the best environment for creating technical footballers and I go back to what I think it was Dunphy or someone said a few years ago 'coming from poverty creates good footballers' and there is a lot behind it because the best footballers come from playing street football. So it's really what they do outside of the 'organized' football that creates the best footballers, the organization around it just enhances it and transfers it from the street into proper 7 a side, 11 a side and a gateway to professional game for the best. 

Obviously coaching and more organized ball time also has a big impact but for me, the best way to facilitate the creation of better players is to create the setting that encourages street football. Small astro/all weather pitches inside a cage that young lads of all ages can just rock up to and play football, which also encourages younger kids playing with older kids which also makes the younger kids better. 
Get them away from big huge fields where the fastest players just kick the ball miles away and run onto it, smaller close quarter games. This naturally encourages competitiveness also. 

If you are ever in Spain, turkey, etc. you see a lot of these pitches around with kids playing ball. In Ireland, you see the odd pitches like this around but not many and a lot of the time and I wonder do you have to 'book' the pitch? 

why are we not building more of these pitches? I would hazard a guess that if a local authority is proposing such an idea then you don't get away with only building it for soccer, you will get the GAA heads objecting to it or wanting to make it multi-use. 

So then should the football association invest? - Problem there is they need to buy the land and be liable for it (injury claims) which they cannot afford. So I think it only really works if the government build them but then you run into the situation in my last paragraph. 

For me, there needs to be the will of the government to make specific investment to encourage more soccer players by creating the best possible environment for them to learn their skills but I am not sure if that will is really there. 





Edited by t_rAndy - 29 Mar 2021 at 12:57pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zinedine Kilbane 110 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Mar 2021 at 1:26pm
I agree with the ‘street footballer’ and on smaller pitches.
Kids need the facilities to go play football all the time and not just the organised matches/training.

10,000 hours rule

Also playing street football against older / better kids will make the younger ones a lot better. 

When I was younger we played in the school yard until it got dark / tea time. We would play for hours at a time.

I don’t see that happening these days in my local town. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GaretFarellysNutSack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Mar 2021 at 1:35pm
I usually go to 3 or 4 Bohs games a season, it's a good Friday night out. If you live near a team you should do the same.
And on the kids playing football thing, I never see it nowadays and live near loads of parks and greens in a working class part of northside Dublin. 
I suppose they just look at their phones or play computer games, we had computer games in the 80s and 90s when I was a kid but my ma would bate us out of the gaf during the day at least instead of just staring at screens all day. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote t_rAndy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Mar 2021 at 2:24pm
In my estate and I would say there is a reasonable level of participation in the local team underage soccer team. You do see a lot of of kids from the road in their football gear. However, I never see them playing football on the roads or field in their own time. So mammy and daddy push them into play football on a team and that is good in itself but I dont think it's really enough.

Our lad plays for local side and likes to play ball with his friends in spare time but the only place you can play ball on is the fields because roads are just too busy now with cars and, not like when we were growing up or especislly when my old man was growing up. But then the fields are not always up to scratch in terms of playability most of the year. There is an astro owned by the local club but they lock the gate most of the time. So our son can only get in by hopping the fence but then they get in trouble if someone from the club shows up. 

Can't blame the club for wanting to protect their astro and themselves from claims but is just an example of how we make it difficult for kids to play football outside the organised setting


Edited by t_rAndy - 29 Mar 2021 at 2:26pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Huntacha Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 2021 at 7:32am
Interesting fact going around on Twitter last night. Alan Browne is the only home-grown player born between '93-'98 to play last night. That's 6 seasons of underage football where no players have been produced for the senior team.
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