Should they be sacked?

FREEWHEELER wrote: hopper wrote: FREEWHEELER wrote: The Sindo and Newstalk are a huge part of why too many private sector workers who should really know better have swallowed so much garbage and lies about public sector workers.   That blonde fookin geebag has been to the forefront and I can't stand the sight or sound of her.  Balance is the least we ask for. I kind of have to agree with you there on Claire Byrne, But private sector workers have to do longer hours have seen their workmates made redundant and taken paycuts how many civil serpents have seen  their staff decimated by lay offs? and paycuts or not they will still 99% be sure of a job next week.   OK and how many people were lookin down their noses and sneering at us when the private sector were making the most of the boom years and asking us why we were in the poxy civil service when we coulda been makin shed loads of money out of it?   I'm black and I'm proud.

FREEWHEELER wrote: hopper wrote: FREEWHEELER wrote: The Sindo and Newstalk are a huge part of why too many private sector workers who should really know better have swallowed so much garbage and lies about public sector workers.   That blonde fookin geebag has been to the forefront and I can't stand the sight or sound of her.  Balance is the least we ask for. I kind of have to agree with you there on Claire Byrne, But private sector workers have to do longer hours have seen their workmates made redundant and taken paycuts how many civil serpents have seen  their staff decimated by lay offs? and paycuts or not they will still 99% be sure of a job next week.   OK and how many people were lookin down their noses and sneering at us when the private sector were making the most of the boom years and asking us why we were in the poxy civil service when we coulda been makin shed loads of money out of it?   I'm black and I'm proud.

tell ya one thing was'nt me, i was making foock all during the boom years, and also i wouldnt look down my nose at anyone, ive nothing against civil servants i just think they need a reality check...

Lads will you stop turnin this into public private. That is not the issue here. You are approaching it from the wrong side. 

Firstly, the topic of the debate was the passport office.  Now the people who are on conductin the industrial action in the Passport Office come from the CPSU who represent the lowest paid in the Civil Service.    They are on from 20,000 to a max of 36,000 after 20 years of service.  Those are the facts Citizen. 

There wages were cut at a disproportionate rate in relation to the highest paid in the public service and esp when you take into account the huge increases the highest in the public service received in benchmarking.

Secondly as I explained. It does not make any economic sense to cut the lowest paid, as they spend all of their wages in the economy whilst the highest paid in society have increased their savings.  

So therefore it makes sense to cut the highest paid in teh public sector more and tax the highest paid in both the public and private sector. 

That is what would be fair and equittable.  People should stop seeing this as a public v private debate. It should be what is best for society and the economy in that order.  


Also there were people coming into the service over the last few years and lasting a week as they could not survive on the CO wages and therefore they left. This was a regular occurence and it is a fact, despite what the INDO say. 

Also your 25 per cent is not correct.  That is figure bandied about by the ESRI and it was in relation to the public service as a whole, and not the civil service.  The reason for this is due to the wages in the higher education sector, i.e. university lectures which is up to 53 per cent higher than the private sector, this drives up the overall percentage to 25 per. 

So the real figure is in and around 6 to 8 percent. 

Citizen wrote: i disagree i like claire, hate ivan though. i think your criticism is very harsh....alss re the civil service, not many are on under 25k neil, ill tell ya what annoyed me...lad i knows bird did 6 months work experience in the dep of agriculture about 4 years ago as part of her college course, she was on 34k for her 6 months.....now come on...for job equivalence, civil servants are paid 25% more than those in similar roles in the private sector...there are plenty of people on less than 25k in the private sector, and even more that have been made redundant....civil servants also get a nice little pension aswell, and job security that that is second to none...id love a job in the civil service, sit there with my thumb up my hole al day and leave at 5 on the dot(not all civil servants are like ths i know, but i personally know a couple that are).in the private sector people can't strike in this climate, they just have to get on with it and do what they can to help the company get through it...there is always a bigger picture....also the cost of living has gone down by 5%...

I know plenty who do this in the private sector, and if you read any of the threads in relation to jobs or pennys on here you woudl here plenty of stories along those lines.   So that is not any sort of point as it happens all across the board and all around the world. I also know loads of people in the private sector that work savage hours and dont get paid well enough for it and I know of the same in the public sector. 

So is the answer we all turn on each other and call each other lazy ***ts or do we do something about it and try to change things, so that recessions happen but  nobody knows why and the same people get hurt tim and time again or to we continue pointing the finger at each other and have this sort of private v public sector divide.  

hopper wrote: nice statistics Neil. a lot of facts too. the goons from the passport office are on frontline now. I do have to say the memo that was sent today by Michael Martin telling them to do there job or not get paid is good. oh and now theres an excuse that one of the 2 passport making machines in the state has broken down. convenient during a dispute.sure the fella who fixes it on work to rule.

 

NeilMcD wrote: Lads will you stop turnin this into public private. That is not the issue here. You are approaching it from the wrong side.  Firstly, the topic of the debate was the passport office.  Now the people who are on conductin the industrial action in the Passport Office come from the CPSU who represent the lowest paid in the Civil Service.    They are on from 20,000 to a max of 36,000 after 20 years of service.  Those are the facts Citizen.  There wages were cut at a disproportionate rate in relation to the highest paid in the public service and esp when you take into account the huge increases the highest in the public service received in benchmarking. Secondly as I explained. It does not make any economic sense to cut the lowest paid, as they spend all of their wages in the economy whilst the highest paid in society have increased their savings.   So therefore it makes sense to cut the highest paid in teh public sector more and tax the highest paid in both the public and private sector.  That is what would be fair and equittable.  People should stop seeing this as a public v private debate. It should be what is best for society and the economy in that order.   Also there were people coming into the service over the last few years and lasting a week as they could not survive on the CO wages and therefore they left. This was a regular occurence and it is a fact, despite what the INDO say.  Also your 25 per cent is not correct.  That is figure bandied about by the ESRI and it was in relation to the public service as a whole, and not the civil service.  The reason for this is due to the wages in the higher education sector, i.e. university lectures which is up to 53 per cent higher than the private sector, this drives up the overall percentage to 25 per.  So the real figure is in and around 6 to 8 percent.

neil it is private v public when you have 420,000 on the dole, going through the futile task of looking for work day in day out...they are the ones who had to take a 5% paycut, and they are only on 10k a year, tell ya what they would be more than happy to work for 25k and do it with enthusiasm too...its also people who can't get work looking to emigrate are being forced to wait 3 months before they can get their passport its a joke, the country is in a mess, striking is'nt goin to change a thing neil, we dont have the money. and neil in the private sector most people have targets and objectives set, which they are expected to meet, if your sitting on your thumb all day you'll soon be found out especailly in this volatile environment. also people have money they just are not spending it, there is over 80 billion on deposit in the banks, rates of savings have quadrupiled.

Your last point I agree with Citizen and cutting peoples wages whether that be private or public will not solve that. The facts are that by cutting wages in teh public sector have taken in less money in tax than they thought they would. 

Cutting wages at the bottom does not solve anything as that money goes directly back into the economy and creates jobs in the private sector, So the more they cut the lower paid in the public sector the more jobs will go in the private sector. That is the ironic twist her. 

The need to leave wages and the dole along for the lowest in society, they need to introduce incentives for people to invest in busineess that is sustainable for the country and they need to introduce a third rate of tax for those over 80,000 or more and that will get the people in the public sector and the private sector who can most pay for it and who are savin the most at the moment.  

Its basic economics but they are tied to the neo liberal ideology that is all about the rich and not about the poor and they will stick to that.  The worst thing is that some people are falling for it. 

hopper wrote: I feel sorry for the people who took a 100% paycut, were all taking a  hit no need for the robots in the passport office to make things worse. Neil can you tell me how much the sh*theads in charge of the unions are on?

I dont know what they are on, but what I do know, is that it is paid out of union fees which is collected by the workers of that union, so if you are not in that union, it is not of your concern as its not costing you a penny. 


Secondly, I think the dole should not have been cut either, and I would object to that.   I am not in favour of cuts for anybody under 40,000.  Cutting does not make moral sense and it does not make economimc sense either.  Its like you dont brake going up a hill,  That is what we are doing to the economy at the moment. 


If the neo liberal ***ts had their way, everybody would be on the basic minimum wage and we would all be fighting each other to have jobs and we would have no rights and people could be sacked for f**k all. This is the sort of world they want to create.  They are trying to reduce the rights of workers all the time and they wont stop until they take away rights across the board. 

Wake up and smell the coffee. The recession is man made its created in order so certain types of people can make money from the recession.  The system is set up that way to have boom and bust boom and busts. 

NeilMcD wrote: hopper wrote: I feel sorry for the people who took a 100% paycut, were all taking a  hit no need for the robots in the passport office to make things worse. Neil can you tell me how much the sh*theads in charge of the unions are on? I dont know what they are on, but what I do know, is that it is paid out of union fees which is collected by the workers of that union, so if you are not in that union, it is not of your concern as its not costing you a penny.  Secondly, I think the dole should not have been cut either, and I would object to that.   I am not in favour of cuts for anybody under 40,000.  Cutting does not make moral sense and it does not make economimc sense either.  Its like you dont brake going up a hill,  That is what we are doing to the economy at the moment.  If the neo liberal ***ts had their way, everybody would be on the basic minimum wage and we would all be fighting each other to have jobs and we would have no rights and people could be sacked for f**k all. This is the sort of world they want to create.  They are trying to reduce the rights of workers all the time and they wont stop until they take away rights across the board.  Wake up and smell the coffee. The recession is man made its created in order so certain types of people can make money from the recession.  The system is set up that way to have boom and bust boom and busts.