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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The O'Shea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Dec 2017 at 4:29pm
Got an assist, so couldn't have been that awful.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HuntysCousin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Dec 2017 at 4:42pm
Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Got an assist, so couldn't have been that awful.

He really was
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AntrimMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Dec 2017 at 5:05pm
Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Got an assist, so couldn't have been that awful.


An assist is such a meaningless stat. If you pass a ball 5 yards to someome 50 yards from goal and the guy beats 7 men and scores its an assist.

Long was dreadful. Through on goal up the middle and he hits a tame effort right at the keeper. Had a tap in on a plate but didnt attack the ball and allowed vertongen to clear. Admittedly good defending but still.

Hes a striker that doesnt score goals and ultimately, thats not good enough.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Green Devil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Dec 2017 at 5:18pm
Shane Long is an absolutely top lad and one of the most honest professionals there is be it through his work rate and how he carries himself on and off the field.

Sadly, his time in the PL has ran it's course and offers very little.

A move to the MLS or somewhere might reignite his career. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zinedine Kilbane 110 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Dec 2017 at 6:19pm
Originally posted by Green Devil Green Devil wrote:

Shane Long is an absolutely top lad and one of the most honest professionals there is be it through his work rate and how he carries himself on and off the field.

Sadly, his time in the PL has ran it's course and offers very little.

A move to the MLS or somewhere might reignite his career. 


True dat but at 31 I'd rather see him in the championship. See if he can get a decent number of goals. 15-20 etc would be okay.
I hope he is better than the MLS right now.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Dec 2017 at 6:22pm
Originally posted by Zinedine Kilbane 110 Zinedine Kilbane 110 wrote:

Originally posted by Green Devil Green Devil wrote:

Shane Long is an absolutely top lad and one of the most honest professionals there is be it through his work rate and how he carries himself on and off the field.

Sadly, his time in the PL has ran it's course and offers very little.

A move to the MLS or somewhere might reignite his career. 


True dat but at 31 I'd rather see him in the championship. See if he can get a decent number of goals. 15-20 etc would be okay.
I hope he is better than the MLS right now.
He isn't. The game was on in the background where I was today and he was absolutely horrific. He is nowhere near even Championship level right now. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cathal Sheehan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Dec 2017 at 7:02pm
Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by Zinedine Kilbane 110 Zinedine Kilbane 110 wrote:

Originally posted by Green Devil Green Devil wrote:

Shane Long is an absolutely top lad and one of the most honest professionals there is be it through his work rate and how he carries himself on and off the field.

Sadly, his time in the PL has ran it's course and offers very little.

A move to the MLS or somewhere might reignite his career. 


True dat but at 31 I'd rather see him in the championship. See if he can get a decent number of goals. 15-20 etc would be okay.
I hope he is better than the MLS right now.
He isn't. The game was on in the background where I was today and he was absolutely horrific. He is nowhere near even Championship level right now. 

Do you ever have anything positive to say about an Irish players.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The O'Shea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Dec 2017 at 7:34pm
Originally posted by AntrimMan AntrimMan wrote:

Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Got an assist, so couldn't have been that awful.


An assist is such a meaningless stat. If you pass a ball 5 yards to someome 50 yards from goal and the guy beats 7 men and scores its an assist.

Long was dreadful. Through on goal up the middle and he hits a tame effort right at the keeper. Had a tap in on a plate but didnt attack the ball and allowed vertongen to clear. Admittedly good defending but still.

Hes a striker that doesnt score goals and ultimately, thats not good enough.


It's the most important pass in the build-up to a goal. If you judged David Silva/Kevin de Bruyne etc. purely on the goals they've scored, you'd think they were nothing special. Judge them on the goals they've created however, and you get a different picture.

As for Long, he's generally played well for Southampton this season despite not scoring, hence why he's played so many games ahead of the more prolific Austin/Gabbiadini. He's in an awful run of goal-scoring form, but his general performances haven't really suffered. That would suggest he hasn't succumbed to an age-related decline or anything of the sort, he's just desperately low on confidence. The MLS/not good enough for the Championship comments are laughable, when he gets his confidence back he'll be as good as he's ever been.

Edited by The O'Shea - 26 Dec 2017 at 7:35pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AntrimMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Dec 2017 at 7:42pm
Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Originally posted by AntrimMan AntrimMan wrote:

Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Got an assist, so couldn't have been that awful.


An assist is such a meaningless stat. If you pass a ball 5 yards to someome 50 yards from goal and the guy beats 7 men and scores its an assist.

Long was dreadful. Through on goal up the middle and he hits a tame effort right at the keeper. Had a tap in on a plate but didnt attack the ball and allowed vertongen to clear. Admittedly good defending but still.

Hes a striker that doesnt score goals and ultimately, thats not good enough.


It's the most important pass in the build-up to a goal. If you judged David Silva/Kevin de Bruyne etc. purely on the goals they've scored, you'd think they were nothing special. Judge them on the goals they've created however, and you get a different picture.

As for Long, he's generally played well for Southampton this season despite not scoring, hence why he's played so many games ahead of the more prolific Austin/Gabbiadini. He's in an awful run of goal-scoring form, but his general performances haven't really suffered. That would suggest he hasn't succumbed to an age-related decline or anything of the sort, he's just desperately low on confidence. The MLS/not good enough for the Championship comments are laughable, when he gets his confidence back he'll be as good as he's ever been.


T'is. But one assist doesnt mean he's played well. He was playing up front, not as a winger or creative midfielder.

No questioning his work rate or commitment but the lack of goals is something much more than out of form.

Higher end of the championship would do him no harm at all i think.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Huntacha Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Dec 2017 at 10:48am
Commentator on the highlights on MOTD mentioned that since Long last scored, Harry Kane had scored 47 goals (before yesterday's hat-trick). There's obviously no comparison between the 2 players, but that's an awful stat.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thebronze14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Dec 2017 at 3:15pm
He's done at saints. How he gets on ahead of gabbiadiani is beyond me. He's been utter sh*te the last two years
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote deise316 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Dec 2017 at 11:32pm
I wonder what Southampton will spend the VVD money on, I doubt its going to be good news for Long anyway. 



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Dec 2017 at 11:57pm
Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Originally posted by AntrimMan AntrimMan wrote:

Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Got an assist, so couldn't have been that awful.


An assist is such a meaningless stat. If you pass a ball 5 yards to someome 50 yards from goal and the guy beats 7 men and scores its an assist.

Long was dreadful. Through on goal up the middle and he hits a tame effort right at the keeper. Had a tap in on a plate but didnt attack the ball and allowed vertongen to clear. Admittedly good defending but still.

Hes a striker that doesnt score goals and ultimately, thats not good enough.


It's the most important pass in the build-up to a goal. If you judged David Silva/Kevin de Bruyne etc. purely on the goals they've scored, you'd think they were nothing special. Judge them on the goals they've created however, and you get a different picture.

As for Long, he's generally played well for Southampton this season despite not scoring, hence why he's played so many games ahead of the more prolific Austin/Gabbiadini. He's in an awful run of goal-scoring form, but his general performances haven't really suffered. That would suggest he hasn't succumbed to an age-related decline or anything of the sort, he's just desperately low on confidence. The MLS/not good enough for the Championship comments are laughable, when he gets his confidence back he'll be as good as he's ever been.
I still think it is a pretty meaningless stat, I'm sure De Bruyne, for example,  wouldn't have half the assists if he was setting up the chances for a profligate striker. I think 'clear-cut chances created' would be a far better metric to be used more regularly, but that doesn't really appeal in this zeitgeist where everything has to be immediate and tangible and, let's face it, Americanised.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The O'Shea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Dec 2017 at 12:16am
Just because the Americans came up with something doesn't mean it's useless. The concept of the assist is entirely intuitive; in an attacking sense, the most valuable player in a team after a goalscorer is the guy who creates opportunities for the goalscorer. De Bruyne, Silva, Mata, Iniesta etc. would provide hatfuls of assists regardless of who their teammates were, simply because they're so brilliant at playing incisive passes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Dec 2017 at 1:38am
Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Just because the Americans came up with something doesn't mean it's useless. The concept of the assist is entirely intuitive; in an attacking sense, the most valuable player in a team after a goalscorer is the guy who creates opportunities for the goalscorer. De Bruyne, Silva, Mata, Iniesta etc. would provide hatfuls of assists regardless of who their teammates were, simply because they're so brilliant at playing incisive passes.

As I clearly said above it isn't entirely intuitive, the statistic that shows the number of clear cut chances created would be much closer to being entirely intuitive. I'm sure the players who have played alongside Long the most would have seen their assist stats drop due to his drought.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MC Hammered Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Dec 2017 at 1:44am
His career trajectory has been eerily similar to Kevin Doyle's
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The O'Shea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Dec 2017 at 12:17pm
Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Originally posted by The O'Shea The O'Shea wrote:

Just because the Americans came up with something doesn't mean it's useless. The concept of the assist is entirely intuitive; in an attacking sense, the most valuable player in a team after a goalscorer is the guy who creates opportunities for the goalscorer. De Bruyne, Silva, Mata, Iniesta etc. would provide hatfuls of assists regardless of who their teammates were, simply because they're so brilliant at playing incisive passes.

As I clearly said above it isn't entirely intuitive, the statistic that shows the number of clear cut chances created would be much closer to being entirely intuitive. I'm sure the players who have played alongside Long the most would have seen their assist stats drop due to his drought.


Define a "clear cut chance"? In any case, there is a widely used "chances created" stat. Assists are rightly regarded as a superior measure of a players creativity.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The O'Shea Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Dec 2017 at 12:20pm
Originally posted by MC Hammered MC Hammered wrote:

His career trajectory has been eerily similar to Kevin Doyle's


It's nothing like Doyle's. Kevin got a bad injury and was effectively finished by the age of 28/29, Long had arguably his best ever season at 28/29. Whereas Long's issues over the last year has been scoring goals, Doyle's issue was primarily a deterioration of his athleticism, something that does not seem to have effected Long as of yet.
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