Shane Long |
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doherty
Jack Charlton Teenage Kicks, so hard to beat Joined: 30 Mar 2015 Status: Offline Points: 7690 |
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Was his last goal at anfield in the cup wasnt it. Thats ages and ages ago
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The O'Shea
Jack Charlton I know everything and I’m NEVER wrong Joined: 16 Aug 2013 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 9532 |
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24 games, I don't know where the 43 figure came from. He last scored in February, he hasn't played 43 games since then. |
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Trapped
Roy Keane Coat hangar expert Joined: 04 Mar 2010 Location: El North Side Status: Offline Points: 10071 |
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Yea but then the question is when was his last goal before that. He could've scored 24 games ago and still have 1 goal in his last 43 games. |
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67% points to games ratio at the last Euro's (better than Portugal's)
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rolo
Moderator Group Joined: 05 Aug 2010 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 9202 |
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1 in 43 is the stat. Doesn't it go back to Moldova away..
Edited by rolo - 16 Oct 2017 at 12:55am |
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"I'm off to see the Queen tomorrow too, don't forget that"
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The O'Shea
Jack Charlton I know everything and I’m NEVER wrong Joined: 16 Aug 2013 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 9532 |
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You count a barren patch from the last time a player scored, so the 1 in 43 is a ridiculous stat, why not say he has 2 in 44 or whatever else.... He hasn't scored in 24 games, which is awful form, but not nearly as bad as "1 in 43" makes it sound.
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deise316
Moderator Group Don't ask me about car warranty Joined: 11 Apr 2009 Location: The Déise Status: Offline Points: 10921 |
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But it's the same thing really, whatever way you look at it, he has 20 something games without a goal, and prior to that goal, you are looking back 20 games to find the previous goal he scored. He was never prolific, bar one single season a good few years ago now, but even those ''OK-by-the-standards-of-other-Irish-strikers'' stats have dipped alarmingly, to the extent that he was outscored last year by Seamus Coleman, who didn't play after March.
Not directed at OShea, but in general, ya see from the Wales game how tight it was, and how few chances were created, the playoffs will likely be much the same in that regard, right now, he isn't the fella you want that chance falling to, you have a better chance of been hit by the ball sitting in the stand behind the goal than you do of him scoring it. |
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Picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue.....
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rolo
Moderator Group Joined: 05 Aug 2010 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 9202 |
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...which is why I honestly thought his absence for Wales was a blessing in disguise, when I heard the news that morning.
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"I'm off to see the Queen tomorrow too, don't forget that"
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Trapped
Roy Keane Coat hangar expert Joined: 04 Mar 2010 Location: El North Side Status: Offline Points: 10071 |
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So if Shane Long scored 1 goal all season in say the 37th game, instead of saying he's had a bad season in front of goal, you would say "he's grand, sure he scored two games ago"? That is a very bizarre (and flawed) way of assessing a striker's goal scoring ratio. |
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67% points to games ratio at the last Euro's (better than Portugal's)
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deise316
Moderator Group Don't ask me about car warranty Joined: 11 Apr 2009 Location: The Déise Status: Offline Points: 10921 |
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Thought the same, but to be honest, I don't think MON would have picked him anyway after Moldova, 2 of those misses were shocking. |
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Picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue.....
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mully_85
Davey Langan Joined: 15 Jul 2011 Location: Omagh Status: Offline Points: 797 |
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i cant remember the last time this man scored
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irishmufc
Robbie Keane I love Vulvas Joined: 09 Aug 2011 Location: Dublin Status: Offline Points: 25057 |
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I don't know about him being no loss as if you're going to play with one striker up front they'd need to be chasing a lot of balls in behind the defence which Murphy can't do and Long has the pace for it. That said Murphy would've been very unlucky not to have started. Murphy was isolated in that match and Long might've helped us get further up the pitch if he'd started. Edited by irishmufc - 16 Oct 2017 at 5:14am |
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The O'Shea
Jack Charlton I know everything and I’m NEVER wrong Joined: 16 Aug 2013 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 9532 |
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Then you would say "They scored once over the course of the season". I have never, ever heard of another players barren streak being described in the way Long's has been, it is completely misleading and absolutely arbitrary. If someone hasn't scored in 10 games, you say they haven't scored in 10 games. You dont say they haven't scored in 10 games, plus five games previous to the match where they did score... There's no logical reason why you would start counting from that particular point, like what is the particular relevance of "1 goal in 43 games" as opposed to "2 goals in 44", or "3 goals in 49" or whatever else it may be, you might as well just wind it all the way back to his total amount of goals in his total appearances made... Edited by The O'Shea - 16 Oct 2017 at 11:12am |
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deise316
Moderator Group Don't ask me about car warranty Joined: 11 Apr 2009 Location: The Déise Status: Offline Points: 10921 |
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I think that's half the issue Muff, at the minute, he's getting a game for us in the hope his pace might win a free or penalty, and I don't think that's enough of a justification to start him. He has exceptional pace, above average strength, but isn't all that good at holding the ball up for all that. He is an average passer with a limited range, so unlikely to pick out a McClean or Christie flying up the wings from a central position. And most of all, for a striker, he is a generally below average finisher, in very poor goalscoring form. For all Murphy's shortcomings, he is better at holding the ball up, and far superior header of the ball should a cross come his way, but ya, he doesn't have the pace or skill to take on defenders, so you are missing something no matter who starts. At the minute, Murphy is in the driving seat though, and unless Long pulls the finger out in the next few weeks, or Murphy gets injured, I don't see that changing. |
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Picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue.....
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The O'Shea
Jack Charlton I know everything and I’m NEVER wrong Joined: 16 Aug 2013 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 9532 |
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Is Murphy better at holding up the ball though? His touch is appalling, and his passing is nothing more than basic. He's not as quick, as good in the air, or as good at running the channels as Long, and despite being a lot bigger, he's only marginally stronger. I don't think either of them are going to score many at international level, but with Long that's more down to his current lack of form, whereas with Murphy it's down to a lack of ability, he's been at the top of his game for 3 years so what he's doing now is the very best he's capable of doing.
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dubstep
Davey Langan Joined: 02 Jun 2014 Location: dublin 9 Status: Offline Points: 798 |
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Longs record at the moment is terrible for a striker but let's put some perspective in it. How many of the 43 games has he started ? Or how many had he played wide as has been mostly been the case with Southampton. He hasn't started that many as the main striker at all.
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Trapped
Roy Keane Coat hangar expert Joined: 04 Mar 2010 Location: El North Side Status: Offline Points: 10071 |
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Well saying a player 'scored once over the course of the season' is the same as saying the player 'scored once over the course of 38 games' and very similar to saying they 'scored once over the course of 43 games', which is the case here. If you don't see that measuring a player's goal scoring record over roughly a season (43 games) instead of roughly half a season (24 games) gives a better picture/deeper understanding of their goal scoring form, then I don't know what to say. You are arguing against a very basic logic - whether you heard such a comparison once or a million times doesn't change that. |
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67% points to games ratio at the last Euro's (better than Portugal's)
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The O'Shea
Jack Charlton I know everything and I’m NEVER wrong Joined: 16 Aug 2013 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 9532 |
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No, I'm arguing against the misleading phrasing and arbitrary nature of the statistic. As I have already said, 43 games ago is a baseless starting point. You may as well pick any old number, it'd be just as relevant. The logical statistic (and the one referenced on Sky yesterday) is that he hasn't scored in 24 games. That is the standard applied to every other striker I can think of, so why would Long be any different?
Edited by The O'Shea - 16 Oct 2017 at 5:33pm |
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Trapped
Roy Keane Coat hangar expert Joined: 04 Mar 2010 Location: El North Side Status: Offline Points: 10071 |
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Exactly what is misleading about saying he has scored 1 goal in 43 games? (Genuine question). It paints a clear picture of a striker not in form over the last 43 games. It actually paints twice as good a picture versus saying he hasn't scored in 24 games. It is a far more insightful statistic. I'm not really interested in the "standard applied" to other strikers you mention. It has no relevance here and is just going off topic.
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67% points to games ratio at the last Euro's (better than Portugal's)
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