Scottish Independence. |
Post Reply | Page <12345 145> |
Author | |||
Hoosay
Ray Houghton Joined: 18 Mar 2009 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 3933 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
Yes they would be very like us, a small peripheral country, but at least they'd have their own views put forward.
If I was Scottish, I'd be fully behind the independence movement, I don't understand why there isn't a huge majority in favour.
I'm not confident that it will pass.
I understand the arguments that the UK has a much bigger influence on the EU, the UN, NATO, the G8/20 etc than Scotland would on its own, but the fact is that under the current government Scotland has f**k all influence because they're under-represented at the cabinet (the opposite was arguably true under the last Labour government). but even under Labour the likes of Gordon Brown's first responsibility as PM and CotE was to the UK as a whole, not to Scotland.
Without getting into a debate about the rights and wrongs of the British electoral system, the fact is that Scotland elected 1 Tory and 11 Lib Dems at the last election, out of 59 MPs, the UK current government does not represent the Scottish electorate in any way shape or form. Many would argue it doesn't actually represent anyone as they've broken their main promises but let's not go there.
At the end of the day surely it is better to have your own voice no matter how small, rather than have all decisions being made by a government that doesn't represent you? If not why did we bother with the War of Independence? Scotland's issues are better represented by Scottish ministers fighting for Scotland at the EU level than they ever will be by a UK minister, and it would arguably be better for Ireland at the EU to have the Scots at the table as there are probably a lot of issues where our interests would overlap and alliances could be formed with other smaller and peripheral nations.
That's if the EU still exists if Scotland ever get around to voting for independance. Neither of which is guaranteed |
|||
Clonbhoy
Roy Keane AKA Sir Basil Butterpeas Esquire Joined: 12 Aug 2010 Location: Iarthar Chorcaí Status: Offline Points: 13976 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
+1 Hoosay
|
|||
corkery
Ray Houghton Joined: 28 Jul 2010 Location: Cork Status: Offline Points: 4932 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
They are afraid that they'll lose their services. When I was working there, it was one of the main things constituents would contact us about. They were afraid that Scotland would turn into Ireland. Many people believe that Scotland's economy is brought up by the power of London. The Tories ovbiously want the oil because there are more Pandas than Tories in Scotland. Labour also need the northern vote. It just seems that people don't care about going on their own. If leaving the UK means losing £5 off their wages, they won't vote for it. During the UK Local Elections, all the 'experts' were saying that if the SNP won Glasgow, they'd have a chance of winning the referendum, however it never happened. This Map of the 2010 Uk election kinda shows where the SNP core support is and where the unionist vote is. Again this is more policies than anything. Edited by corkery - 22 Aug 2012 at 4:45pm |
|||
'The younger generation as in 17 -25 are certainly gayer than their predecessors. I think they may cause the extinction of the human race with their activities.'- Baldrick
|
|||
RogerMilla
Moderator Group #TEAMJAVIER #ENGANCHE Joined: 15 Feb 2007 Location: Delaney Park Status: Offline Points: 34858 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
the war of independence came about becuase our home rule bill was shelved 3 times and the people came to see that the only way we were getting out of this union (a union that was founded on denying voting rights to catholics until daniel o connell won that ) was to shoot our way out.
scotland already has home rule , everyone already has the vote and i just think that on the whole they are pro UK... would personally love to see them do it but i dont think they will ,
scotland has a much bigger voice in the UK than it has in the EU , also the labour party relies on scotland for its overall majorities when it wins , if thats gone the tories could be in for a long time unless the libs and labour in england/wales can break that deadlock
|
|||
The first time the Devil made me do it. The second time I did it on my own.
|
|||
Hoosay
Ray Houghton Joined: 18 Mar 2009 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 3933 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
|
|||
RogerMilla
Moderator Group #TEAMJAVIER #ENGANCHE Joined: 15 Feb 2007 Location: Delaney Park Status: Offline Points: 34858 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
ouch
|
|||
The first time the Devil made me do it. The second time I did it on my own.
|
|||
Saint Tom
Jack Charlton Joined: 03 Jan 2009 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 9981 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
very interesting debate - personally cannot see how any self respecting scot would vote against it.
|
|||
My destination inchicore my next stop being kilmainham
Where patriots and super saints are the topics of conversation |
|||
irishmufc
Robbie Keane I love Vulvas Joined: 09 Aug 2011 Location: Dublin Status: Offline Points: 25057 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
@clonbhoy
if its financially better for Scotland to break why isnt there a clear majority to do so? There must legitimate concerns about independence and how it may have an adverse effect economically. |
|||
Wings? They're only the band The Beatles could have been.
|
|||
irishmufc
Robbie Keane I love Vulvas Joined: 09 Aug 2011 Location: Dublin Status: Offline Points: 25057 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
I think Baldrick because london is a major global financial centre and the fact they were pumping alot of money into the EU in the 80s before Thatcher got a tax rebate back of europe, they are a big player however france and germany are the big two id guess are envious of london status. i think it could be a case for scots that is it better to be independant with a smaller economy or remain part of a major British economy? Edited by irishmufc - 22 Aug 2012 at 8:49pm |
|||
Wings? They're only the band The Beatles could have been.
|
|||
Newryrep
Paul McGrath Just can't get enough of lists Joined: 14 Jan 2009 Status: Offline Points: 15254 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
Very interesting debate and couldnt agree more. some brief observations The unionists have no rational arguement, the nationalists have them all. Scotland is either too small or too stupid to run itself. It clearly isnt the first but it would be clearly be the second if it voted no. anecdotally the Yes campaign has a definite chance more so than the clearly unionist medai both print and TV would have them believe, but when you here of long time labour voters intending to switch to the SNP the momentum is with the Yes though the jubliee and olympics have had a temporary blip Arguments about losing the military dont stack up , they are already shedding military jobs they just cant afford it any more. As regards the oil, I believe Tony Blair redrew Scotish territorail waters before he left power to the general benefit of England alex Salmond is player a blinder and is head and shoulders above any scottish politician and most british ones. If Czechslovakia can spit up amicibly why can England Scotland any body know the odds ?
|
|||
'Irish' Songs for an Irish team - no SPL EPL generic sh*te
Richard Dunne - 6th Sept 11 - best marshalling of a defence in Moscow since General Zukov Russia V Germany 1941 |
|||
Newryrep
Paul McGrath Just can't get enough of lists Joined: 14 Jan 2009 Status: Offline Points: 15254 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
Well done mufc for finally working out how to quote. London being a financial centre is precisely what is wrong with the UK economy. It accounts for a far higher % than it should dont have the figures to hand but its circa 23% compared to say Germany with a more balanced economy at 8%. whats a financial centre do ? basically a big casino as far i can tell
|
|||
'Irish' Songs for an Irish team - no SPL EPL generic sh*te
Richard Dunne - 6th Sept 11 - best marshalling of a defence in Moscow since General Zukov Russia V Germany 1941 |
|||
Baldrick
Robbie Keane Peyton-tly Pedantic Joined: 18 Sep 2008 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 32717 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
Great few posts from Newryrep there.
There is no reason in the world that Scotland cannot be an indpendent country. As far as I can see the reason for a no vote will be Stockholm syndrome from many of the electorate. There will be roughly a third nationalist a third unionist and that other third which if it can move from fear to rationality it may swing the vote but its a big ask. I think it will finish 55/45 in favour of unionism but its still 2 years away and by then the Olymipcs and Jubilee and Royal Wedding will have died down |
|||
AKA pedantic kunt
|
|||
Baldrick
Robbie Keane Peyton-tly Pedantic Joined: 18 Sep 2008 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 32717 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
Ever hear fear of change. When you have the 3 major political parties all arguing in favour of a No vote its hard for 1 party to sway the majority of the electorate. Plus its generally harder to get people to change the situation than to change the status quo. Edited by Baldrick - 22 Aug 2012 at 10:31pm |
|||
AKA pedantic kunt
|
|||
corkery
Ray Houghton Joined: 28 Jul 2010 Location: Cork Status: Offline Points: 4932 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
They call them 90min Patriots. |
|||
'The younger generation as in 17 -25 are certainly gayer than their predecessors. I think they may cause the extinction of the human race with their activities.'- Baldrick
|
|||
RogerMilla
Moderator Group #TEAMJAVIER #ENGANCHE Joined: 15 Feb 2007 Location: Delaney Park Status: Offline Points: 34858 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
Agree with that alright |
|||
The first time the Devil made me do it. The second time I did it on my own.
|
|||
da scientist
Liam Brady I've a tiny micky Joined: 09 Jan 2012 Location: Perth Status: Offline Points: 1706 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
Would that be like those self respecting Irish men who jumped ship out of |
|||
The main thing is not to panic
|
|||
da scientist
Liam Brady I've a tiny micky Joined: 09 Jan 2012 Location: Perth Status: Offline Points: 1706 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
You best hope Andy Murray doesn’t win |
|||
The main thing is not to panic
|
|||
samscafe
Liam Brady Joined: 01 Nov 2009 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1295 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
||
|
|||
Certain mods are complete wankstains
|
|||
Post Reply | Page <12345 145> |
Tweet
|
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |