Scottish Independence.

RogerMilla wrote: Hoosay wrote:   They'd be a separate EU state though, so they'd have a lot more influence their than they do currently.   they'd have about as much influence as we have , i.e. none.

They have none now, they don't even get a seat at the table now, unless the UK minister at the table happens to be Scottish. In the current cabinet all of the major secretaries of state are English (Cameron, Hague, Osborne, Clegg, May etc), so Scotland gets less representation than they would if they had their own seat at the table.

Hoosay wrote: RogerMilla wrote: Hoosay wrote:   They'd be a separate EU state though, so they'd have a lot more influence their than they do currently.   they'd have about as much influence as we have , i.e. none.      I don't understand why there isn't a huge majority in favour.

They are afraid that they'll lose their services. When I was working there, it was one of the main things constituents would contact us about. They were afraid that Scotland would turn into Ireland. Many people believe that Scotland's economy is brought up by the power of London.

The Tories ovbiously want the oil because there are more Pandas than Tories in Scotland. Labour also need the northern vote.  It just seems that people don't care about going on their own.  If leaving the UK means losing £5 off their wages, they won't vote for it.

During the UK Local Elections, all the 'experts' were saying that if the SNP won Glasgow, they'd have a chance of winning the referendum, however it never happened.

This Map of the 2010 Uk election kinda shows where the SNP core support is and where the unionist vote is.
 Again this is more policies than anything.

RogerMilla wrote: Hoosay wrote: At the end of the day surely it is better to have your own voice no matter how small, rather than have all decisions being made by a government that doesn't represent you? If not why did we bother with the War of Independence?        the war of independence came about becuase our home rule bill was shelved 3 times and the people came to see that the only way we were getting out of this union (a union that was founded on denying voting rights to catholics until daniel o connell won that )  was to shoot our way out.   scotland already has home rule , everyone already has the vote and i just think that on the whole they are pro UK... would personally love to see them do it but i dont think they will ,   scotland has a much bigger voice in the UK than it has in the EU , also the labour party relies on scotland for its overall majorities when it wins , if thats gone the tories could be in for a long time unless the libs and labour in england/wales can break that deadlock

That was a rhetorical question.

very interesting debate - personally cannot see how any self respecting scot would vote against it.

Baldrick wrote: irishmufc wrote: @the walls I agree with ya that it wouldnt be as bad but the comparison im making with ireland is that their say and positon is weakened in europe. Britain who are still a major power in the EU. this would suggest to me that it wouldnt make sense breaking away from this. I know britain isnt the force it was but its still a big economy with a huge population for its landmass and i wouldnt think it would be advisable to break away completely given the sway france and germany hold     The UK may have a big say in Europe (I dont totally agree with that by the way)  but Scotland has basically no say in the running of the UK, so whats the point in being part of something that has a say if you do not have a say in the thing you are a part of.    How many Scotish Mps are in the Tory/Liberal government.    Scotland was led by Thatcher for years despite barely returning any Tory Mps.      The Torys want the oil and Labour are fearful of having Tory rule if they lost all the Scottish Labour seats at Westminister.

I think Baldrick because london is a major global financial centre and the fact they were pumping alot of money into the EU in the 80s before Thatcher got a tax rebate back of europe, they are a big player however france and germany are the big two id guess are envious of london status. i think it could be a case for scots that is it better to be independant with a smaller economy or remain part of a major British economy?



Edited by irishmufc - 22 Aug 2012 at 8:49pm

irishmufc wrote: Baldrick wrote: irishmufc wrote: @the walls I agree with ya that it wouldnt be as bad but the comparison im making with ireland is that their say and positon is weakened in europe. Britain who are still a major power in the EU. this would suggest to me that it wouldnt make sense breaking away from this. I know britain isnt the force it was but its still a big economy with a huge population for its landmass and i wouldnt think it would be advisable to break away completely given the sway france and germany hold     The UK may have a big say in Europe (I dont totally agree with that by the way)  but Scotland has basically no say in the running of the UK, so whats the point in being part of something that has a say if you do not have a say in the thing you are a part of.    How many Scotish Mps are in the Tory/Liberal government.    Scotland was led by Thatcher for years despite barely returning any Tory Mps.      The Torys want the oil and Labour are fearful of having Tory rule if they lost all the Scottish Labour seats at Westminister.       I think Baldrick because london is a major global financial centre and the fact they were pumping alot of money into the EU in the 80s before Thatcher got a tax rebate back of europe, they are a big player however france and germany are the big two id guess are envious of london status. i think it could be a case for scots that is it better to be independant with a smaller economy or remain part of a major British economy?

irishmufc wrote: @clonbhoy if its financially better for Scotland to break why isnt there a clear majority to do so? There must legitimate concerns about independence and how it may have an adverse effect economically.

Ever hear fear of change.  When you have the 3 major political parties all arguing in favour of a No vote its hard for 1 party to sway the majority of the electorate.  Plus its generally harder to get people to change the situation than to change the status quo.  



Edited by Baldrick - 22 Aug 2012 at 10:31pm

Baldrick wrote: Great few posts from Newryrep there. There is no reason in the world that Scotland cannot be an indpendent country. As far as I can see the reason for a no vote will be Stockholm syndrome from many of the electorate.  There will be roughly a third nationalist a third unionist and that other third which if it can move from fear to rationality it may swing the vote but its a big ask.  I think it will finish 55/45 in favour of unionism but its still 2 years away and by then the Olymipcs and Jubilee and Royal Wedding will have died down

Agree with that alright

Baldrick wrote: Great few posts from Newryrep there. There is no reason in the world that Scotland cannot be an indpendent country. As far as I can see the reason for a no vote will be Stockholm syndrome from many of the electorate.  There will be roughly a third nationalist a third unionist and that other third which if it can move from fear to rationality it may swing the vote but its a big ask.  I think it will finish 55/45 in favour of unionism but its still 2 years away and by then the Olymipcs and Jubilee and Royal Wedding will have died down