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Scotland down the years |
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Gary McKay 
Roy Keane 
Yo Adrian Joined: 21 Jul 2007 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 13816 |
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 Posted: 06 Apr 2020 at 11:15am |
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He obviously had a problem !!!
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"Smalling and Jones.... have the potential to be the PL’s best ever pairing in my opinion." - SlurAlex
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ErsatzThistle
Liam Brady
Joined: 05 Nov 2013 Location: Glasgow Status: Offline Points: 1013 |
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Posted: 06 Apr 2020 at 1:18pm |
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He was up against Sandy Jardine and Danny McGrain for that role at international level. Both never let us down. . Allan Evans and Ken McNaught were Aston Villa's central defence when they won the European Cup. Evans only got four caps and McNaught zero because of the quality and consistency of Willie Miller and Alex McLeish. Hamish McAlpine and Campbell Money were two good goalkeepers but neither ever got any caps because of Jim Leighton's reliability in internationals. My Granddad is still unhappy that one of his all time favourite players, Ian McMillan (Airdrie & Rangers) only got six caps.
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McG
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SISAO? What the hell is SISAO? Joined: 27 Jan 2008 Location: Christmas Island Status: Offline Points: 26977 |
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Posted: 06 Apr 2020 at 1:22pm |
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Good info Thistle
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YBIG Table Quiz winner 2016 & 2017
AS YOU WERE McGx |
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BaileNuisBhoy
Liam Brady
Joined: 06 Feb 2011 Location: Cork Status: Offline Points: 2674 |
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Posted: 06 Apr 2020 at 3:16pm |
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Say no to Egg Chasing!!!
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ErsatzThistle
Liam Brady
Joined: 05 Nov 2013 Location: Glasgow Status: Offline Points: 1013 |
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Posted: 06 Apr 2020 at 3:44pm |
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They played long before my time but I love talking to my folks about what they remembered and reading feedback from other fans about those times.
The problem with the whole Danny McGrain and Sandy Jardine debate is that unfortunately it's often seen through either blue or green tinted specs which doesn't make for a very productive debate. Some have said that Jardine was the better tackler. Some have said that McGrain was the better athlete. Others say that they were both equally as good. My Dad (a Rangers fan) thinks that they were both brilliant players but that on reflection McGrain was probably slightly better. Granddad (who saw his first Scotland game in 1942) maintains that the late Eric Caldow is the best full back he's ever seen play for Scotland. |
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BaileNuisBhoy
Liam Brady
Joined: 06 Feb 2011 Location: Cork Status: Offline Points: 2674 |
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Posted: 07 Apr 2020 at 11:08am |
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They played long before my time but I love talking to my folks about what they remembered and reading feedback from other fans about those times. [/QUOTE]cheers 👍🏻
The problem with the whole Danny McGrain and Sandy Jardine debate is that unfortunately it's often seen through either blue or green tinted specs which doesn't make for a very productive debate. Some have said that Jardine was the better tackler. Some have said that McGrain was the better athlete. Others say that they were both equally as good. My Dad (a Rangers fan) thinks that they were both brilliant players but that on reflection McGrain was probably slightly better. Granddad (who saw his first Scotland game in 1942) maintains that the late Eric Caldow is the best full back he's ever seen play for Scotland. |
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Say no to Egg Chasing!!!
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McG
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SISAO? What the hell is SISAO? Joined: 27 Jan 2008 Location: Christmas Island Status: Offline Points: 26977 |
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Posted: 05 Nov 2020 at 8:55pm |
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Eddie Gray - 12 caps over 8 years
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YBIG Table Quiz winner 2016 & 2017
AS YOU WERE McGx |
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ErsatzThistle
Liam Brady
Joined: 05 Nov 2013 Location: Glasgow Status: Offline Points: 1013 |
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Posted: 05 Nov 2020 at 9:01pm |
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Eddie Gray on his day was a beautiful footballer. Unfortunately, he was also notoriously injury prone. Hence the lack of caps.
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McG
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SISAO? What the hell is SISAO? Joined: 27 Jan 2008 Location: Christmas Island Status: Offline Points: 26977 |
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Posted: 05 Nov 2020 at 9:12pm |
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nearly 600 appearances for Leeds wouldnt suggest he was too prone to injury. a few low numbers in the early 70s but apart from that, he must have timed his injuries well for international football
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YBIG Table Quiz winner 2016 & 2017
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ErsatzThistle
Liam Brady
Joined: 05 Nov 2013 Location: Glasgow Status: Offline Points: 1013 |
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Posted: 05 Nov 2020 at 9:55pm |
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I have to respectfully disagree with you there McG. Some of those seasons where he was clearly suffering from injuries were years where he really could have been most useful to our national team. Gray had a lot of competition for a spot on the wing for Scotland in the years he was active. Good players such as Jim Baxter, Willie Henderson, Jimmy Johnstone, Willie Morgan, Archie Gemmill, Willie Johnstone, Charlie Cooke and Peter Cormack for example were all among the players competing with Gray for a place in the team. Some of those players particularly Willie Henderson (whom Pele was an admirer of) and Archie Gemmill were very good, reliable internationals who often did not deserve to be dropped. The same thing happened to the famous "terrible trio" (Willie Bauld, Alfie Conn Snr and Jimmy Wardhaugh) who scored tons of goals for the successful Hearts league and cup winning teams of the mid-late fifties. They only got a mere six caps between them because the competition among players for places, one of whom was a teenager playing for Huddersfield Town called Denis Law. |
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McG
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SISAO? What the hell is SISAO? Joined: 27 Jan 2008 Location: Christmas Island Status: Offline Points: 26977 |
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Posted: 05 Nov 2020 at 10:08pm |
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Solid info as always ET
Eddie was on OffTheBall this eve celebrating John Gile's 80th. I knew he was a Leeds legend and googled his caps, was surprised they were so low.
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YBIG Table Quiz winner 2016 & 2017
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Cabra Hoop
Roy Keane
Joined: 06 Feb 2012 Location: Royal County Status: Offline Points: 10825 |
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Posted: 05 Nov 2020 at 10:16pm |
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It's well known that Revie dissuaded his Leeds players from playing for their countries. Giles got very few of his lowly 59 caps (over 20 years) during his best playing years between 66 and 73. Bremner to his credit often refused Revies call to cry off for Scotland. If you compare international caps for Giles and Bremner between 66 and 73, it'll make you think. Get it that Scotland had the HN which we didn't but there is a large deficit on the Giles side. Giles 14 v Bremner 39, and Bremner had a lot for competition for his place.
Edited by Cabra Hoop - 05 Nov 2020 at 10:27pm |
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" BFC always gives me a laugh........ "
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Territorial
Jack Charlton
Joined: 25 Nov 2014 Status: Offline Points: 5817 |
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Posted: 05 Nov 2020 at 10:33pm |
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Dave Mackay got just 22 Scotland caps. Here is what Jimmy Greaves said about him: "My old Tottenham team-mate Dave Mackay was the most complete professional footballer I've ever known, on and off the pitch. He was a genuinely hard b****d and a truly gifted ball player a combination which is so rare. Dave
could play in any outfield position, was a world-class midfield
enforcer and sweeper and even understudied for me up front when I was
suspended for a European semi-final."
Harry Redknapp: "Dave Mackay was one of the best I've ever seen. Jimmy Greaves was the greatest goal scorer, and George Best was just the best. The greatest." George Best: "The hardest man I have ever played against – and certainly the bravest". Brian Clough said that signing Mackay, by then a veteran, was: "the best day's business I did in my life" And I think I'm right in saying Bill Nicholson considered him the best player in the great Spurs Double team - one of the greatest teams English football has ever seen. Then there's this:
Mackay reportedly hated this picture since it made him look a bully, when he was so much more than that. But context is everything: Bremner had gone out of his way to kick Mackay on the leg he had just come back from breaking for the second time. Either way, I think the referee was so relieved that Mackay didn't kill him that he didn't send him off, thereby allowing Mackay to maintain his proud record of never having been sent off in over 700 games. Meanwhile, Billy Bremner got 54 caps. Edited by Territorial - 05 Nov 2020 at 10:36pm |
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ErsatzThistle
Liam Brady
Joined: 05 Nov 2013 Location: Glasgow Status: Offline Points: 1013 |
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Posted: 05 Nov 2020 at 10:40pm |
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Johnny Giles was my Dad's (as a lad he supported Leeds as his "English team") favourite non-Scottish player when he was a youth and he still thinks very highly of one of Ireland's greatest ever players Frank Gray (Eddie's brother) did get a respectable thirty two caps for the national team. Funnily enough, when we've discussed over on the TAMB the players who should have got more caps, one name that frequently comes up is Steve Clarke. Tom Cairney (two caps) is the one player from the last ten years who should have gotten more caps than he did. Strachan was stubbornly loyal to the too often underwhelming Barry Bannan and James McArthur and was reluctant to try out new blood in central midfield for too long.
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gmfc90
Liam Brady
Joined: 06 Apr 2016 Status: Offline Points: 1150 |
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Posted: 05 Nov 2020 at 10:42pm |
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Cairney has no interest in playing for Scotland |
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Danger here, OH NO
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ErsatzThistle
Liam Brady
Joined: 05 Nov 2013 Location: Glasgow Status: Offline Points: 1013 |
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Posted: 05 Nov 2020 at 11:01pm |
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Another great club player but who also sometimes suffered injuries. He also played at a time when less friendly matches were played and less substitutes allowed. Tellingly, according to my folks (who remember were actually in the stands watching these games at Hampden and who travelled down to Wembley) Mackay didn't always bring his club form with him to the national side. There plenty of other decent defenders to consider too such as John Greig and the late, great Billy McNeill who were both natural born leaders. I trust my folks judgement on this, they were actually there.
He seemed quite enthusiastic and relieved to finally be called up when Strachan did give him his long awaited call up so I disagree. He also turned up for the underage squads often enough. Today we don't need him though. I'm quite happy with the totally unglamorous but nonetheless hard working midfielders (such as Jack and McGinn) we have now and the ones coming through in the U21s (Gilmour, McCrorie, Campbell) at present. |
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Territorial
Jack Charlton
Joined: 25 Nov 2014 Status: Offline Points: 5817 |
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Posted: 05 Nov 2020 at 11:37pm |
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His two leg breaks (the second in a reserve game while he was making his comeback from the first) saw him miss 18 months, just at the height of his career. Despite that, he still played over 700 times, including Clough buying him at 33 to build his promotion-winning Derby team around. (Clough wouldn't have taken that chance had there been a doubt over his fitness/injury record).
And in his final years he dropped back to become one of the very first sweepers in the English game, with distinction, being voted FWA "Footballer of the Year" in 1969, aged 35. Meanwhile Greig and McNeill, orthodox defenders, were respectably 8 and 6 years younger than Mackay, so their peak years didn't overlap with his.
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ErsatzThistle
Liam Brady
Joined: 05 Nov 2013 Location: Glasgow Status: Offline Points: 1013 |
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Posted: 05 Nov 2020 at 11:51pm |
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Territorial, with all due respect my entire extended family (on my Dad's side Rangers and Celtic fans, on my Mum's side Celtic and Partick Thistle fans) were actually there at Hampden and Wembley watching these games back in the day.
They know what they saw and passed it on decades later. I wasn't. And you certainly were not either. I'm told by eyewitnesses to many of Mackay's internationals that his form was erratic. There we have it. So unless you can invent a time machine, I firmly regard their accounts as the truth.
As a Northern Ireland fan, you may be interested to know that my Great-Grandfather (a Rangers fan who died decades before I was born) considered Crevolea native Sammy English to be one of the finest players he ever saw play at Ibrox. Edited by ErsatzThistle - 05 Nov 2020 at 11:52pm |
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McG wrote: