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Schoolboy Match Roll Call

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Robbie Keane
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    Posted: 20 Oct 2013 at 2:59pm
Was at my nephew's U14 NDSL game this morning, he is with Raheny United who are bottom and today they were playing Swords Celtic who are top. Before kick off Swords took it upon themselves to do a roll call on the Raheny players to make sure those players named were in fact who they said they were.

Is this where schoolboy clubs are going now where a top team are paranoid a struggling team will play bangers or pack a team? I thought this was appalling. Swords won 5-0 (harsh on our lads who battled gamely) but the pre-match sh*t really bugged me. When was this introduced and why is it tolerated?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BigStrongMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2013 at 3:10pm
NDFL players all have ID cards
Not uncommon FW but your right it's bullsh*t
Any manager who players a banger in schoolboy football is a twat
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote greenforever Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2013 at 3:43pm
Originally posted by BigStrongMan BigStrongMan wrote:

NDFL players all have ID cards
Not uncommon FW but your right it's bullsh*t
Any manager who players a banger in schoolboy football is a twat
 
 
Sorry but I don't agree, firstly U14s is too results orientated instead of kids going out to play ball.
 
Off course all players should be properly registered but where teams are struggling to field teams is it better just to drop out of playing or throw in a banger to actually field a team.
 
I would far prefer to play a team with a couple of bangers than have a game called off
 
That's not condoning a team deliberately playing bangers / overage players etc when properly registered players are available
 
I know you need rules etc, but its taking things to extremes name checking players at U14
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BoboDub Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2013 at 3:54pm
In all my years playing and involved in managing schoolboy football between the late 80s and 2002 I saw so many case of different kids of bangers it was unreal (I haven't been involved since then having become so disillusioned with how schoolboy football was run).

Sometimes they were bangers out of crisis (can't field a team unless players get in - usually but not always these players would be unattached and the right age level, but there would have been times older lads or lads registered with other clubs would have been played to ensure a fixture was sulfilled), sometimes they'd be out of desparation to get a result (either to win or to avoid a drubbing, usually this would involve older players), sometimes players would lie about their own age as they wanted the benefit of playing better at a younger level where they'd be more experienced and physically stronger.

It all always baffled me as those who did it would be the first to cry foul if they felt someone was doing it against them. 

The whole schoolboy schene (and probably the adult scene too) is riddled with this in my experience. 

I think an ID system is totally understandable in those circumstances.  All it takes for bad people to succeed is for good people to stand idly by.  The NDSL is an organised league, where people pay money in subscriptions and everyone expect fair play.  It's not like a kickaround in the park. 

While it is sad to have to resort to that, I don't think in the curcumstances it is extreme.  But I woul dbe saying the same room for everyone - the ref roll calls / ids all players for both teams pre-game.  Once everyone knows it's going to happen, there won't be anyone put off by it?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote greenforever Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2013 at 3:59pm
Originally posted by BoboDub BoboDub wrote:

In all my years playing and involved in managing schoolboy football between the late 80s and 2002 I saw so many case of different kids of bangers it was unreal (I haven't been involved since then having become so disillusioned with how schoolboy football was run).

Sometimes they were bangers out of crisis (can't field a team unless players get in - usually but not always these players would be unattached and the right age level, but there would have been times older lads or lads registered with other clubs would have been played to ensure a fixture was sulfilled), sometimes they'd be out of desparation to get a result (either to win or to avoid a drubbing, usually this would involve older players), sometimes players would lie about their own age as they wanted the benefit of playing better at a younger level where they'd be more experienced and physically stronger.

It all always baffled me as those who did it would be the first to cry foul if they felt someone was doing it against them. 

The whole schoolboy schene (and probably the adult scene too) is riddled with this in my experience. 

I think an ID system is totally understandable in those circumstances.  All it takes for bad people to succeed is for good people to stand idly by.  The NDSL is an organised league, where people pay money in subscriptions and everyone expect fair play.  It's not like a kickaround in the park. 

While it is sad to have to resort to that, I don't think in the curcumstances it is extreme.  But I woul dbe saying the same room for everyone - the ref roll calls / ids all players for both teams pre-game.  Once everyone knows it's going to happen, there won't be anyone put off by it?
 
Sorry but have to disagree, far too much emphasis put on winning at this age instead of continuing to improve ones skills etc.
 
At what age do you start ID and roll calls, U14, U12, U10?
 
Off course there should be no organised leagues below U14 in the first place.
 
IMO more important to get kids playing football for fun and learning skills than winning matches at U14.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote irelandshirts Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2013 at 4:07pm
as a parent id have been furious that my son in that squad had to be made line up and give his name on a roll call to an opposition manager/referee before a game.Talk about trying to intimidate a young ladd.Id have told the Swords manager he could f**k right off and we line out as selected.If he had any problem with that he could take it up with the league as all my players were registered.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BoboDub Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2013 at 4:12pm
But if both teams had to do it every game it wouldn't be intimidating, it would just be part of the rules.  Having managed teams at a huge disadvantage because the opposition WAS playing bangers, and knowing how disenheartening a crushing defeat in those circumstances can be, I can see the beenfit to this.  If it was same rule for all I don't see the problem, particularly as, in my experience, there always was a huge amount of cheating and I assume there still is. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baldrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2013 at 4:21pm
Either the ref does it or nobody does it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BigStrongMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2013 at 4:24pm
Originally posted by greenforever greenforever wrote:

Originally posted by BigStrongMan BigStrongMan wrote:

NDFL players all have ID cards
Not uncommon FW but your right it's bullsh*t
Any manager who players a banger in schoolboy football is a twat
 
 
Sorry but I don't agree, firstly U14s is too results orientated instead of kids going out to play ball.
 
Off course all players should be properly registered but where teams are struggling to field teams is it better just to drop out of playing or throw in a banger to actually field a team.
 
I would far prefer to play a team with a couple of bangers than have a game called off
 
That's not condoning a team deliberately playing bangers / overage players etc when properly registered players are available
 
I know you need rules etc, but its taking things to extremes name checking players at U14

IMO competitive football should start at u14..nothing wrong with that
6-13 all about devolopment not results
So when do you think it should start being competitive ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote greenforever Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2013 at 4:32pm
15/16
 
Having managed at that level and often either struggle to get players or played teams struggling to get numbers Id prefer a game than no game....having said that I'd accept more stringent enforcement at the highest league levels but again if they were only starting competitive leagues at U14, you will have lopsided leagues unless you had some kind of preseason mini competitions to grade teams for the season.
 
Again there is also IMO a big difference between blatant cheating and trying to fulfil fixtures, and ive no answer what is the best way to enforce rules etc.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SuperDave84 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2013 at 4:33pm
Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Either the ref does it or nobody does it.


This.

Opposition managers doing it will only serve further to imbue the youngsters with a totally counter-productive win at all costs mentality.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BigStrongMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2013 at 4:36pm
I hear you GF
I think the ID roll call happens before most NDFL games
Open to correction but does the ref check all cards before game?
Have seen this before.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote irelandshirts Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2013 at 4:39pm
if its not a rule id get the raheny mgr to ring his swords counterpart to object if he hadn't already to his behaviour then id ring every other mgr of clubs in the league and ask them to say no to swords behaviour if they request that of any other team in future.
I remember the "big" schoolboy clubs always had subtle ways of trying to intimidate teams.This was a case in point imo.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary McKay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2013 at 4:53pm
The Refs couldnt give a flying fcuk about bangers etc.
Its not in their remit.
Refs will openly tell you that they sent a player off one week and then Reffed the same player the following week under a different name.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BabbsBalls Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2013 at 5:26pm
Yeah it's up to the ref to line up the players and get them to show their ID's . Our 17's had to do it last week but didn't today. Don't see what the problem is wit doin it ....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BoboDub Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2013 at 5:33pm
Just to be clear its id-ing players I don't have a problem with. Absolutely the ref should be doing it, not opposition managers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FREEWHEELER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2013 at 5:51pm
I'm told Malahide did it to Raheny last week also. Doesn't happen every week. I'm sad schoolboy football is resorting to this paranoia and suspicion, particularly before a game even poxy starts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary McKay Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2013 at 6:15pm
ID cards dont stop 14 year old Nigerians playing u11 with 'valid' birth certs !!!
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