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Saipan - Who was right?

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Poll Question: Who was correct in their actions?
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Deane View Drop Down
Liam Brady
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Deane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2022 at 2:07pm
Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Originally posted by Trigboy 10 Trigboy 10 wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

I don't know.  Maybe he was but just thought no point in kicking off about it as there was nothing he could do at that point and just get on with it with.





The same way he did Feic all about the training setup in Dublin out at the airport and the situation on planes. Mick accepted sub standard conditions for years from the fai and he never publicly supported Keane when he was forced to fight for it along with other players.  If I have a member of staff pushing up and driving standard I don’t think they are above their station.  That’s what they are meant to do.  Managing up is a skill too and Keane didn’t have it as he was abrasive and mick didn’t have it as he was too nice.  
Mick didn’t train the team at the Dublin Airport he trained them out at St Francis ground in Baldonnell


Really LOL


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Davey Langan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bundy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2022 at 10:28pm
Originally posted by SeanC SeanC wrote:

love Keane to bits and always will, he’s given the country so much to watch & cheer. So rare for us to have such an elite global player, will we ever get another lol. But he was wrong to walk out on the country in a WC. End of. I think when he became manager he realised how sh*t a position he put Mick in. Mick still got great performances from the team without his best player and that deserves to be recognised. All the pro-Kenny extremists seem to forget what Mick gave to us as a player & manager. 

Mick was criminally underrated during his time as manager first time around. We were what, unbeaten in 4 years at home in competitive games? We got to 12th in the world under Mick as well. What happened with Keane and what happened against Russia ended things on a regrettably sour note for him but he was a very good manager who had us playing marvellous football at times.

All the talk about 2002, while it’s nice to look back I also think it’s time to forget it. Funnily enough that Spain game still hurts me badly. We had them beaten if we had been a bit braver. Bringing David Connolly on was one thing I can’t forgive Mick for. And Jesus Kilbane’s miss, it still makes me want to cry.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hotlips_Hoolahan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2022 at 10:36pm
Mick doesn't get enough criticism for not realising we had a man advantage in the Spain game.
Don't let yourself get attached to anything you are not willing to walk out on in 30 seconds flat if you feel the heat around the corner.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bundy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2022 at 11:42pm
Originally posted by Hotlips_Hoolahan Hotlips_Hoolahan wrote:

Mick doesn't get enough criticism for not realising we had a man advantage in the Spain game.

If missed by Mick, there were 20 others on the line that should have spotted it. Extra time in a World Cup game is total chaos and hindsight is great, I don’t think any commentary team spotted it either I don’t ever recall hearing it until after the game. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baldrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2022 at 12:35am
Originally posted by Deane Deane wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Originally posted by Trigboy 10 Trigboy 10 wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

I don't know.  Maybe he was but just thought no point in kicking off about it as there was nothing he could do at that point and just get on with it with.





The same way he did Feic all about the training setup in Dublin out at the airport and the situation on planes. Mick accepted sub standard conditions for years from the fai and he never publicly supported Keane when he was forced to fight for it along with other players.  If I have a member of staff pushing up and driving standard I don’t think they are above their station.  That’s what they are meant to do.  Managing up is a skill too and Keane didn’t have it as he was abrasive and mick didn’t have it as he was too nice.  
Mick didn’t train the team at the Dublin Airport he trained them out at St Francis ground in Baldonnell


Really LOL



Not sure the point of this as I never said they didn’t train in Baldonnel.  I just said they trained by the airport and trigget incorrectly tried to correct me 😀


Edited by Baldrick - 26 Nov 2022 at 12:36am
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Robbie Keane
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baldrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2022 at 12:37am
Originally posted by bundy bundy wrote:

Originally posted by Hotlips_Hoolahan Hotlips_Hoolahan wrote:

Mick doesn't get enough criticism for not realising we had a man advantage in the Spain game.

If missed by Mick, there were 20 others on the line that should have spotted it. Extra time in a World Cup game is total chaos and hindsight is great, I don’t think any commentary team spotted it either I don’t ever recall hearing it until after the game. 

All those 20 were chosen by Mick😀😀😀

By the way it was obvious at the time
That they only had 10


Edited by Baldrick - 26 Nov 2022 at 12:38am
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Robbie Keane
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baldrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2022 at 9:33am
Keane said something interesting recently on sky that he was a worrier and could never relax in relation to football.  But that he would never have made it to England if he was relaxed.  He never let himself relax even when he got to the top because he had that thought in his head.  I could be back in Ireland.  That was at the heart of Saipan in my view and he hated that the Ireland players didn’t have his drive and relaxed and as a result they played at lesser clubs but may have had more ability then him in his view.  His disdain in the interview was for their effort not their ability.  No excuse to say it and it shows a myopic side to him.  
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Robbie Keane
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote t_rAndy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2022 at 1:23pm
If it wasn't a player of Keane's stature or quality, let's say it was Kinsella, and he had that argument with Mick and got sent home then everyone would be fully supporting Mick's decision and saying it was the the wrong time and place for Kinsella to raise his issues. 
Its just that it robbed us of a world class player that it hurt so much (still does) and we are looking for someone to blame. Plus managers generally get the blame anyway when things go bad.

Keane will say he has no regrets but he clearly does
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gufct Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2022 at 1:35pm
Build a bridge and get over it lads.
One City,One County,One Club GUFC will be back.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baldrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2022 at 1:41pm
Originally posted by gufct gufct wrote:

Build a bridge and get over it lads.

Why do you like to shut down debate. 
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Davey Langan
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 50%lesssugar&salt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2022 at 1:48pm
Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Originally posted by gufct gufct wrote:

Build a bridge and get over it lads.

Why do you like to shut down debate. 

LOL

There is shutting down debate and doing it to death. 
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Roy Keane
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 9fingers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2022 at 2:10pm
Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Originally posted by gufct gufct wrote:

Build a bridge and get over it lads.

Why do you like to shut down debate. 
20 years on is shutting down debate LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baldrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2022 at 2:24pm
Originally posted by 9fingers 9fingers wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Originally posted by gufct gufct wrote:

Build a bridge and get over it lads.

Why do you like to shut down debate. 
20 years on is shutting down debate LOL

Look what the thread is called.  What did he think it was going to be about when he clicked on it.  Very easy if you don’t like to read people post opinions on it. Don’t click on the thread. Very simple. 
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Jack Charlton
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Drumcondra 69er Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2022 at 3:00pm
Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Originally posted by bundy bundy wrote:

Originally posted by Hotlips_Hoolahan Hotlips_Hoolahan wrote:

Mick doesn't get enough criticism for not realising we had a man advantage in the Spain game.

If missed by Mick, there were 20 others on the line that should have spotted it. Extra time in a World Cup game is total chaos and hindsight is great, I don’t think any commentary team spotted it either I don’t ever recall hearing it until after the game. 

All those 20 were chosen by Mick😀😀😀

By the way it was obvious at the time
That they only had 10

Nobody around us noticed in the ground as it happened at half time of extra time so the player wasn't removed from the field of play as such. The tension was unreal. 

Obviously different if you're on the sideline. Dunno what we'd have done differently, we were all over them in that second period of extra time, not as if we sat back and settled for pens. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baldrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2022 at 3:26pm
Lads just because you rightly think that Keane was bang out of order and a prick in Saipan etc it doesn’t mean you have to defend every one of Micks mistakes.  As I said we should be well beyond mick was right or Roy was right.  

The manager or his staff should spot stuff like this and there should be a culture in the group for forensic detail both before games and during games.  I wouldn’t expect fans who are either half pissed or coming down from drink withdrawals and tension to spot it. That culture did not exist and was not there from
The top of the organisation but mick didn’t fight it he went along with it. It manifested itself in a number of different ways.  Overall mick did a great job with Ireland but there are also serious errors over the years of his first reign. He is twice the manager Keane was imo and Roy was twice the player mick was. Mick is probably easier to get an along with.  


Edited by Baldrick - 26 Nov 2022 at 3:27pm
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Robbie Keane
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trap junior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2022 at 6:56pm
its 20 years but at the time I dont think I noticed or don;t recall noticing they were down to 10 men.  Not sure what difference it would have made had Mick known that tbh.

I thought Mick did a great job first time around and we played entertaining stuff.  A nice mixture of good results and good performances.  He was a dinosaur in 2019 though even though his results were decent.
Him playing for a draw in Georgia was a joke tbh.
Insert pathetic Baldrick post below
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baldrick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2022 at 7:25pm
Jesus lads listen to yourselves.  How many passes does Mick get. Just cause Keane was a **** and was almost impossible to deal with should not mean Mick is beyond criticism.    

Saipan was RNR not training although there was training taking place and facilities for football were dangerous to the players.  
The skips and gear were not his responsibility
The pitches like concrete were not his area 
Picking a journalist who encouraged fans to boo your captain as your World Cup ghost writer. 
Deciding to confront your captain in front of the whole squad knowing full well it was going to kick off and result in a massive row and probably expulsion of said captain from squad.  
Picking an injured mcateer for the first game and having to whip him off after 45 mins
Missing that Spain were down to ten men. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Given's zimmerframe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2022 at 10:23pm
Great players always undermine their managers intentionally and unintentionally. Mick messed it up as he was not experienced enough to deal with it. 
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