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Saipan - Who was right?
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Poll Question: Who was correct in their actions?
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Jack Charlton
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Originally posted by newrynyuk newrynyuk wrote:

The meeting was called over Roy's interview with he-who-we-no-longer-mention of The Irish Times where Roy criticised the training facilities (or therein lack of) in Saipan.  In all the years since then, I've yet to see any explanation how that descended into accusations of faking injury. 


And since then Roy had admitted that was not the problem, he also never explained why he never turned up for Quinns testimonial and for the team briefing.

The rest of the squad and Mick did their best but there is only one person responsible, and making excuses for him is sad IMO.
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Gf you are so blinded in your hatred for Keane.  You can't see any other side of it.  

Tell me how it benefited Ireland for the manager to accuse Roy Keane of faking an injury and miss a game. 

Take it as a given that Keane was bang out of order and was the one mostly at fault.  But that does not mean that Mick did not make a mistake by provoking the bear.  
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Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Gf you are so blinded in your hatred for Keane.  You can't see any other side of it.  

Tell me how it benefited Ireland for the manager to accuse Roy Keane of faking an injury and miss a game. 

Take it as a given that Keane was bang out of order and was the one mostly at fault.  But that does not mean that Mick did not make a mistake by provoking the bear.  



But Roy did fake injuries

There had to be a clear the air meeting at some stage and the reality is Roy did not want yo play for Mick

I won't apologize for putting my country first every time something Roy never did.

Had Roy turned up in Sunderland he could have expressed his concerns but that's also Mick's fault 
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How did you put your country first.  You went on the lash for a few weeks and ate all around you like we all do FFS.   Don't give the martyr sh*te that's the likes of aido do.  You were on holidays FFS.  

Even if it's true that Roy faked injuries what purpose did it serve.  How did it benefit Ireland.  How was it good management.  You seem to think criticism of Mick is praise of Roy.  It's not either or.  It can be mix of both were more criticism for Roy.  
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Jack Charlton
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Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Originally posted by greenforever greenforever wrote:

There is an alternate way of looking at Mick's management, and say he did well to keep Roy on board as long as he did.

How anyone can even say that Roy's behavior in not turning up for the US Cup and allegedly ringing an unnamed FAI employee is acceptable is living on a different planet. Roy the manager would not accept that. Ireland was never his No 1 priority and still isn't. Personally the sooner he departs the better. 

Straw man argument I never said his behaviour was acceptable.  I have made comments which state that Keane was largely at fault and that mick made a mistake with regard to the meeting. I also said the players shouldn't have put the rip sign.  So to summarise. Keane was largely and fault but others didn't cover themselves in glory either. 

Yourself and drum want to paint a picture of mick and the rest the squad made no mistakes and Keane was 100 per cent fault for everything.  To me that is the more unreasonable argument which sees no good in Keane and no bad in mick.  



That's not actually my position, I certainly think Mick could have handled it better. I can still recognise that Roy was being treated with kid gloves for a long time and treated differently as it was.

If it wss down to me I'd have let him skip Saipan .
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Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

Why was calling a team meeting a miatake? Keane had said stuff in the papers and that was festering. Had to be addressed. Sweeping it under the carpet and you would have got a situation like Argentina where the manager is undermined.



Calling a meeting is not an issue.  Going on the attack is not good management as it did benefit Ireland in anyway.  Either did Keane's behaviour.   
 



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Originally posted by Drumcondra 69er Drumcondra 69er wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Originally posted by greenforever greenforever wrote:

There is an alternate way of looking at Mick's management, and say he did well to keep Roy on board as long as he did.

How anyone can even say that Roy's behavior in not turning up for the US Cup and allegedly ringing an unnamed FAI employee is acceptable is living on a different planet. Roy the manager would not accept that. Ireland was never his No 1 priority and still isn't. Personally the sooner he departs the better. 

Straw man argument I never said his behaviour was acceptable.  I have made comments which state that Keane was largely at fault and that mick made a mistake with regard to the meeting. I also said the players shouldn't have put the rip sign.  So to summarise. Keane was largely and fault but others didn't cover themselves in glory either. 

Yourself and drum want to paint a picture of mick and the rest the squad made no mistakes and Keane was 100 per cent fault for everything.  To me that is the more unreasonable argument which sees no good in Keane and no bad in mick.  



That's not actually my position, I certainly think Mick could have handled it better. I can still recognise that Roy was being treated with kid gloves for a long time and treated differently as it was.

If it wss down to me I'd have let him skip Saipan .


Good stuff drum. Well said. Glad you clarified as would hate to pick you up wrong 
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I found my itenary from Ray Treacy Travel for Japan 2002 the other night. I was struck with the line in the advice pack that "remember your mobile phone will not work in japan but you can rent a phone during your stay if you wish".

I took a camera with me to Japan that i had to bring home and get the film developed. Why do i mention it about Saipan? Technology was no where like today and with the time difference there was a communication lag between Ireland & Saipan.

I remember reading players waiting for news from home,papers going to print,players in internet cafes etc.The FAI statement crossed over with another statement when the players held a press conference etc

If we had internet,facebook,twitter etc then i dont think the fallout would have been as bad. We waited for Micks statement, then we waited for Roys interview with Tommy Gorman on RTE etc.It fed the will he,wont he,right or wrong.
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The important thing is that we don't dwell on it...
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Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

Why was calling a team meeting a miatake? Keane had said stuff in the papers and that was festering. Had to be addressed. Sweeping it under the carpet and you would have got a situation like Argentina where the manager is undermined.



Calling a meeting is not an issue.  Going on the attack is not good management as it did benefit Ireland in anyway.  Either did Keane's behaviour.   
 




Maybe I am wring but I think things had already passed the point of no return when Mick accused him of faking injury. I thonk Keane had torn strips off him and this was juat an interjection.

Thing is Keane did miss games he could have played in and was more than fit to play the Iran game in Tehran but decided not to to placate Ferguson. He also said in his book he "didnt do friendlies" and Ferguaon would pull them out of international duty with injuries.  
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Whether he missed games or not, how did it benefit Ireland for Mick to accuse Keane of faking injury.   It's a given that Keane was bang out of order.   The point I am making is Mick could have managed it better. 
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Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

Originally posted by Baldrick Baldrick wrote:

Originally posted by Trap junior Trap junior wrote:

Why was calling a team meeting a miatake? Keane had said stuff in the papers and that was festering. Had to be addressed. Sweeping it under the carpet and you would have got a situation like Argentina where the manager is undermined.



Calling a meeting is not an issue.  Going on the attack is not good management as it did benefit Ireland in anyway.  Either did Keane's behaviour.   
 





Maybe I am wring but I think things had already passed the point of no return when Mick accused him of faking injury. I thonk Keane had torn strips off him and this was juat an interjection.

Thing is Keane did miss games he could have played in and was more than fit to play the Iran game in Tehran but decided not to to placate Ferguson. He also said in his book he "didnt do friendlies" and Ferguaon would pull them out of international duty with injuries.  


“Maybe I am wring”
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“This was juat an interjection”
“And Ferguanon would pull”

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Typing on my phone. Couldnt be arsed editing.
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Mick says Ireland woupdn't have gotten out of the group had Roy Keane played in 2002 because he was in such foul mood out there. I'd tend to agree.
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Seriously, will "saipan" ever just f**k off
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can someone remind me what happened again?
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Originally posted by McG McG wrote:

Seriously, will "saipan" ever just f**k off

This. Kind of surprised at Mick- there presumably was a time when he felt he had to 'justify' his actions, but that time is long gone. He has stated his position often enough over the years, can't see what's to be gained by dragging it up again. I know it was more Dunphy in this case (a man with no reputation for stirring the pot...) but Mick should have batted it away same as he did at the press conference last week. 
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If he is going to spend the next two years talking about it then he should be paid off tomorrow.
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