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Racism in Football

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Sham157 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sham157 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Feb 2021 at 2:28pm
Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Well spotted, thanks.
LOL I was reading your post with interest and then got thrown. I battled the urge to highlight it and failed. I didn’t intend to take from your points Embarrassed
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sid waddell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Feb 2021 at 2:29pm
Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

I think the most important functions are the safety of society and rehabilitation. People are far too obsessed with punishment because they can pass the blame of all society's ills on to those who are deemed punishable, rather than look at themselves and society as a whole. 

But punishment is a part of that, not separate from that


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Feb 2021 at 2:29pm
Originally posted by Sham157 Sham157 wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

Well spotted, thanks.
LOL I was reading your post with interest and then got thrown. I battled the urge to highlight it and failed. I didn’t intend to take from your points Embarrassed
That is exactly why it is important! It is disrespectful to the reader and undermines the point being made, or at least attempted!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Het-field Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Feb 2021 at 3:01pm
Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

I think the most important functions are the safety of society and rehabilitation. People are far too obsessed with punishment because they can pass the blame of all society's ills on to those who are deemed punishable, rather than look at themselves and society as a whole. 


The problem with that is that there are crimes that are not necessarily suitable for rehabilitation (think financial crime) and the best that can be achieved is some sort of restorative justice. If that cant happen, for whatever reason, the best approach is punitive. Otherwise, there are no consequences. Demanding the Judiciary be "tough on crime", or fatalistically pointing the finger at "society" creates a binary that probably doesn't help the debate around criminality. In some cases punishment is necessary. In others, intervention is vital, and that can be part of the rehabilitative process.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hotlips_Hoolahan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Feb 2021 at 3:05pm
Originally posted by BrendanD88 BrendanD88 wrote:

Originally posted by Hotlips_Hoolahan Hotlips_Hoolahan wrote:

You'd think a 57 year old man who's been working as an onscreen pundit for the BBC and ITV for over 20 years would know it's not acceptable to mock someone's accent on live TV in front of millions of viewers, like Ian Wright did with Roy Keane.

Not that that absolves the little bollox from Kerry's racism.



Ridiculous bringing that up! The two incidents are nowhere near comparable.


Young lad said horrific things to Ian Wright that are inexcusable. Ian Wright acted like a racist towards Roy Keane on live TV months before this happened. The two things aren't incompatible.

If I went on Elaine Crowley's show and started mocking a Polish person's accent because I disagree with what they're say saying and I'm too stupid to rebut it like a normal person, then I would be sacked or forced to do a sensitivity training course.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pre Madonna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Feb 2021 at 3:13pm
Originally posted by Het-field Het-field wrote:

Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

I think the most important functions are the safety of society and rehabilitation. People are far too obsessed with punishment because they can pass the blame of all society's ills on to those who are deemed punishable, rather than look at themselves and society as a whole. 


The problem with that is that there are crimes that are not necessarily suitable for rehabilitation (think financial crime) and the best that can be achieved is some sort of restorative justice. If that cant happen, for whatever reason, the best approach is punitive. Otherwise, there are no consequences. Demanding the Judiciary be "tough on crime", or fatalistically pointing the finger at "society" creates a binary that probably doesn't help the debate around criminality. In some cases punishment is necessary. In others, intervention is vital, and that can be part of the rehabilitative process.

The problem there is that there are lesser punishments for financial crime, or at least there always has been. It is certainly something that needs to be changed.
I agree that there are times when punishment is needed, although I imagine we would disagree as to what that punishment should be! The fact we are obsessed with crimes and criminals is part of the obsession with the punishment.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Het-field Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Feb 2021 at 3:28pm
Originally posted by pre Madonna pre Madonna wrote:

The problem there is that there are lesser punishments for financial crime, or at least there always has been. It is certainly something that needs to be changed.
I agree that there are times when punishment is needed, although I imagine we would disagree as to what that punishment should be! The fact we are obsessed with crimes and criminals is part of the obsession with the punishment.

In fairness, when I say financial crime, I am particularly thinking of professionals who use their position and the trust to dip their hand in the till. When caught, they often get very long sentences, and I think in that case, it is partly because it is hard to fathom what the rehabilitation can be. To me, rehabilitation is not necessarily about ensuring people don't commit crimes when they leave jail (or simply caught up in the justice system), but instead that they have been give all the support and assistance, and developed in such a way that they have real and tangible options whereby criminality is not something they entertain. This could include educational supports, mental health support, addiction counselling etc etc. Basically to leave the system better equipped when they arrived into it (in a metaphorical sense). The difference for the Bernie Madoff types is that there is no real support that can be given, as he probably didn't lack for too much. And as such, in that situation, restorative and punitive justice make the best outcome.

In terms of disagreement as to what the punishment might be, well, that's another matter!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Double Maxim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 2021 at 8:14pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Double Maxim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Apr 2021 at 9:19pm
Shame more teams didn't do the same.

Double Maxim without doubt the greatest drink in the world
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Double Maxim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 2021 at 6:22am
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