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sid waddell View Drop Down
Roy Keane
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sid waddell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Oct 2020 at 9:23pm
Originally posted by NewtNewbie NewtNewbie wrote:

Originally posted by sid waddell sid waddell wrote:

Originally posted by NewtNewbie NewtNewbie wrote:

Originally posted by sid waddell sid waddell wrote:

Originally posted by NewtNewbie NewtNewbie wrote:

Originally posted by sid waddell sid waddell wrote:

Originally posted by NewtNewbie NewtNewbie wrote:

Originally posted by sid waddell sid waddell wrote:

NewtNewbie, what's your view on Putin and Russian fascism?

What sources would you recommend to learn about Russia? Big smile

Okay, I'll humour you.

To be absolutely clear, I despise Putin and the kleptocratic oligarchs who rule the Russian Federation. It is antithetical to every principle I hold dear.

That said, Russiagate and underhand Russian interference in the UK referendum on EU membership has been thoroughly debunked.

A distinction has to be made between the Russian administration and Russia. Russophobia is not, and never will be, an acceptable form of racism.

If someone were to suggest that Jewish people controlled and influenced every election and that any democratic outcome that didn't go quite the way the accuser wanted was the result of the malign influence of Jews they'd be rightly condemned as anti-Semitic scum and shunned from polite society.

The attitude to oddball conspiracy theoristists who suggest the same of Russians should be no different.
Who has it been debunked by?

Putin? 

His kleptocratic oligarchs?

Trump? Fox News?

Why at this very moment is Trump reciting a Russian disinformation campaign?

Why are you doing so?

Your allegations of anti-Russian racism are some laugh, desperation stuff - Putin is raping Russia for his own monetary benefit, is intent on destroying democracy in Europe, has killed his own people with bombs, is an imperialist war monger, and the people you seem to get your views from, ie. the dirtbag pro-Russia left, are totally silent on it

It's pathetic to see, especially given that your views are dripping with white privilege and you seem quite happy to see fascism in the US continue

What are your views on the following:

Tulsi Gabbard
Glenn Greenwald
Matt Taibbi
Bernie Sanders
Katie Halper
John Pilger
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Seumas Milne


Right-wingers smearing the 'dirtbag' left as umpatriotic, anti-western Russian stooges is as old and desperate a tactic as it gets.Corbyn got that treatment from your lot all the time.

Your regular tinfoil-hattist conspiracy theorist rantings simply have no basis in reality. You just sound like an old-school, Reaganite, imperialist racist.

The Cold War is long over. Get the f**k over it.
That's exactly what the dirtbag left are, they exist to run with Russian and far-right talking points and to destroy any hope of progressive change

Just as there are "centrists" who do so

As Jeremy Corbyn's most prominent supporter on this forum I know what I'm talking about

Again, you're going nuts there, flinging around baseless accusations of racism - you sound exactly like Murdoch media, funny that

I sound like a Reaganite?

Have you read what I've written about Reagan? LOL

Oh, and you didn't address a single point I made there

Thanks for that

Again, do some reading, or some listening

Good reading, and good listening

You clearly need to

Given your interest in the US, listen to a bit of Sarah Kendzior or Peter Beinart or Michelle Alexander or Adam Serwer or Nicole Hannnah Jones or Timothy Snyder or Nancy MacLean or Isabel Wilkerson or Jared Yates Sexton 

And ignore the Glenn Greenwalds and Mark Ames and Matt Taibbis and Katie Halpers and Chapo Trap Houses and Red Scares of this world, as well as the alt-right rabbit hole you've so clearly gone down

Okay, so you despise the 'dirtbag' left. Goes with the territory. This has already been established. You've used this construction innumerable times; some originality wouldn't go amiss.

Repeatedly calling someone like me 'nuts' really isn't a good look. Especially for an  uptight, puritanical high-horser such as yourself.

And just why do you persist in writing in punctuation-light single sentence paragraphs?

Very odd.

I call the dirtbag left exactly what they are, they deserve zero respect because they have zero positive vision for anything, the only aim they have is to destroy

Lolz, your whole tirade against me has been that I'm not uptight, puritanical and high horse enough!

You see unfortunately the problem with you - and let's just say for argument's sake that you are actually what you claim you are - is that you're the exact sort of humourless nutcase that turns people off the left

Your first impulse is to viciously abuse people

But it's obvious you're not actually a left-winger at all, I've seen trolls like you who run with dirtbag left/alt-right (they're the same thing) ultra cynical narratives a thousand times on forums and each time it becomes more and more obvious what they are - disuptors to try and divide opposition to fascism

The problem with the dirtbag left is they don't oppose fascism at all and instead willingly enable it



'you're the exact sort of humourless nutcase that turns people off the left

Your first impulse is to viciously abuse people'

f**king hell. How can anybody even try to begin to take someone like you, who constantly undermines their own arguments, seriously?



But that's what you are! 

Read back over your own posts!

I don't viciously abuse people for no reason, because I'm able to debate

I'll certainly people out where justified and take the piss out of people, because taking the piss out of people is what a forum like this is for

You aren't able to debate at all which is why you have to resort to crazy shrieking and personal abuse 

There's no substance to your posts

I know a spoofer when I read one


"ONE-NIL!" - David Coleman, George Hamilton - "Finding The Words - The Art of Commentary"

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nvidic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Oct 2020 at 10:10pm
Originally posted by NewtNewbie NewtNewbie wrote:

Originally posted by nvidic nvidic wrote:

Amy reputable links to it being debunked? Didn't the UK civil service not put together a full report detailing the influence? 

Amy who? Don't expect me to do your thinking for you. Anyone who keeps abreast of current affairs can easily verify what I have stated.

Right, except every day I read pretty much every reputable news source, right and left, and have never seen any report on the evidence on interference being brought into doubt

A quick Google here has reports from right across the spectrum confirming there was an attempt to influence the vote, not one saying otherwise 

So I'm not sure how I've managed to not keep abreast of current affairs on this one, but sure just use a typo against me instead 


Edited by nvidic - 17 Oct 2020 at 10:11pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NewtNewbie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Oct 2020 at 10:11pm
Originally posted by sid waddell sid waddell wrote:

Originally posted by NewtNewbie NewtNewbie wrote:

Originally posted by sid waddell sid waddell wrote:

Originally posted by NewtNewbie NewtNewbie wrote:

Originally posted by sid waddell sid waddell wrote:

Originally posted by NewtNewbie NewtNewbie wrote:

Originally posted by sid waddell sid waddell wrote:

Originally posted by NewtNewbie NewtNewbie wrote:

Originally posted by sid waddell sid waddell wrote:

NewtNewbie, what's your view on Putin and Russian fascism?

What sources would you recommend to learn about Russia? Big smile

Okay, I'll humour you.

To be absolutely clear, I despise Putin and the kleptocratic oligarchs who rule the Russian Federation. It is antithetical to every principle I hold dear.

That said, Russiagate and underhand Russian interference in the UK referendum on EU membership has been thoroughly debunked.

A distinction has to be made between the Russian administration and Russia. Russophobia is not, and never will be, an acceptable form of racism.

If someone were to suggest that Jewish people controlled and influenced every election and that any democratic outcome that didn't go quite the way the accuser wanted was the result of the malign influence of Jews they'd be rightly condemned as anti-Semitic scum and shunned from polite society.

The attitude to oddball conspiracy theoristists who suggest the same of Russians should be no different.
Who has it been debunked by?

Putin? 

His kleptocratic oligarchs?

Trump? Fox News?

Why at this very moment is Trump reciting a Russian disinformation campaign?

Why are you doing so?

Your allegations of anti-Russian racism are some laugh, desperation stuff - Putin is raping Russia for his own monetary benefit, is intent on destroying democracy in Europe, has killed his own people with bombs, is an imperialist war monger, and the people you seem to get your views from, ie. the dirtbag pro-Russia left, are totally silent on it

It's pathetic to see, especially given that your views are dripping with white privilege and you seem quite happy to see fascism in the US continue

What are your views on the following:

Tulsi Gabbard
Glenn Greenwald
Matt Taibbi
Bernie Sanders
Katie Halper
John Pilger
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Seumas Milne


Right-wingers smearing the 'dirtbag' left as umpatriotic, anti-western Russian stooges is as old and desperate a tactic as it gets.Corbyn got that treatment from your lot all the time.

Your regular tinfoil-hattist conspiracy theorist rantings simply have no basis in reality. You just sound like an old-school, Reaganite, imperialist racist.

The Cold War is long over. Get the f**k over it.
That's exactly what the dirtbag left are, they exist to run with Russian and far-right talking points and to destroy any hope of progressive change

Just as there are "centrists" who do so

As Jeremy Corbyn's most prominent supporter on this forum I know what I'm talking about

Again, you're going nuts there, flinging around baseless accusations of racism - you sound exactly like Murdoch media, funny that

I sound like a Reaganite?

Have you read what I've written about Reagan? LOL

Oh, and you didn't address a single point I made there

Thanks for that

Again, do some reading, or some listening

Good reading, and good listening

You clearly need to

Given your interest in the US, listen to a bit of Sarah Kendzior or Peter Beinart or Michelle Alexander or Adam Serwer or Nicole Hannnah Jones or Timothy Snyder or Nancy MacLean or Isabel Wilkerson or Jared Yates Sexton 

And ignore the Glenn Greenwalds and Mark Ames and Matt Taibbis and Katie Halpers and Chapo Trap Houses and Red Scares of this world, as well as the alt-right rabbit hole you've so clearly gone down

Okay, so you despise the 'dirtbag' left. Goes with the territory. This has already been established. You've used this construction innumerable times; some originality wouldn't go amiss.

Repeatedly calling someone like me 'nuts' really isn't a good look. Especially for an  uptight, puritanical high-horser such as yourself.

And just why do you persist in writing in punctuation-light single sentence paragraphs?

Very odd.

I call the dirtbag left exactly what they are, they deserve zero respect because they have zero positive vision for anything, the only aim they have is to destroy

Lolz, your whole tirade against me has been that I'm not uptight, puritanical and high horse enough!

You see unfortunately the problem with you - and let's just say for argument's sake that you are actually what you claim you are - is that you're the exact sort of humourless nutcase that turns people off the left

Your first impulse is to viciously abuse people

But it's obvious you're not actually a left-winger at all, I've seen trolls like you who run with dirtbag left/alt-right (they're the same thing) ultra cynical narratives a thousand times on forums and each time it becomes more and more obvious what they are - disuptors to try and divide opposition to fascism

The problem with the dirtbag left is they don't oppose fascism at all and instead willingly enable it



'you're the exact sort of humourless nutcase that turns people off the left

Your first impulse is to viciously abuse people'

f**king hell. How can anybody even try to begin to take someone like you, who constantly undermines their own arguments, seriously?



But that's what you are! 

Read back over your own posts!

I don't viciously abuse people for no reason, because I'm able to debate

I'll certainly people out where justified and take the piss out of people, because taking the piss out of people is what a forum like this is for

You aren't able to debate at all which is why you have to resort to crazy shrieking and personal abuse 

There's no substance to your posts

I know a spoofer when I read one



Your stridently right-wing views and unbridled enthusiasm for mass-murderers like Biden and the Clintons are despicable. Expect to be called out over them again and again.

And misrepresenting your opponents as Russian bots and trolls doesn't pass as an ability to debate.

Your appallingly sh*tty views represent the mainstream, as they have for 40 years. You've won. At least have the magnanimity to be gracious in victory


Edited by NewtNewbie - 17 Oct 2020 at 10:18pm
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Roy Keane
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sid waddell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Oct 2020 at 10:23pm
Originally posted by NewtNewbie NewtNewbie wrote:


Your stridently right-wing views and unbridled enthusiasm for mass-murderers like Biden and the Clintons are despicable. Expect to be called out over them again and again.

And misrepresenting your opponents as Russian bots and trolls doesn't pass as an ability to debate.

Your appallingly sh*tty views represent the mainstream, as they have for 40 years. You've won. At least have the magnanimity to be gracious in victory

f**king hell

"My stridently right-wing views" LOL

And here was me being called a communist for so long I'd almost started to believe it myself LOL

I'd never call you a Russian bot, but you sure do a good impression of one!
"ONE-NIL!" - David Coleman, George Hamilton - "Finding The Words - The Art of Commentary"

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nvidic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Oct 2020 at 11:18pm
Originally posted by nvidic nvidic wrote:

Originally posted by NewtNewbie NewtNewbie wrote:

Originally posted by nvidic nvidic wrote:

Amy reputable links to it being debunked? Didn't the UK civil service not put together a full report detailing the influence? 

Amy who? Don't expect me to do your thinking for you. Anyone who keeps abreast of current affairs can easily verify what I have stated.

Right, except every day I read pretty much every reputable news source, right and left, and have never seen any report on the evidence on interference being brought into doubt

A quick Google here has reports from right across the spectrum confirming there was an attempt to influence the vote, not one saying otherwise 

So I'm not sure how I've managed to not keep abreast of current affairs on this one, but sure just use a typo against me instead 

Bump 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NewtNewbie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 2020 at 12:01am
Originally posted by nvidic nvidic wrote:

Originally posted by nvidic nvidic wrote:

Originally posted by NewtNewbie NewtNewbie wrote:

Originally posted by nvidic nvidic wrote:

Amy reputable links to it being debunked? Didn't the UK civil service not put together a full report detailing the influence? 

Amy who? Don't expect me to do your thinking for you. Anyone who keeps abreast of current affairs can easily verify what I have stated.

Right, except every day I read pretty much every reputable news source, right and left, and have never seen any report on the evidence on interference being brought into doubt

A quick Google here has reports from right across the spectrum confirming there was an attempt to influence the vote, not one saying otherwise 

So I'm not sure how I've managed to not keep abreast of current affairs on this one, but sure just use a typo against me instead 

Bump 

There were well-documented, high-profile investigations into these issues and no evidence of colusion or interference could be proved.

If your position is that there was, then the burden of proof is on you to show this.

In the second half of the 20th century alone, America directly involved itself in the internal affairs of 100-plus countries through the direct violent overthrowing of sovereign governments or other means.

Why is this deamed acceptable, but perceived undue Russian interference in the US not?


Edited by NewtNewbie - 18 Oct 2020 at 12:06am
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Roy Keane
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sid waddell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 2020 at 12:20am
Originally posted by NewtNewbie NewtNewbie wrote:

Originally posted by nvidic nvidic wrote:

Originally posted by nvidic nvidic wrote:

Originally posted by NewtNewbie NewtNewbie wrote:

Originally posted by nvidic nvidic wrote:

Amy reputable links to it being debunked? Didn't the UK civil service not put together a full report detailing the influence? 

Amy who? Don't expect me to do your thinking for you. Anyone who keeps abreast of current affairs can easily verify what I have stated.

Right, except every day I read pretty much every reputable news source, right and left, and have never seen any report on the evidence on interference being brought into doubt

A quick Google here has reports from right across the spectrum confirming there was an attempt to influence the vote, not one saying otherwise 

So I'm not sure how I've managed to not keep abreast of current affairs on this one, but sure just use a typo against me instead 

Bump 

There were well-documented, high-profile investigations into these issues and no evidence of colusion or interference could be proved.

If your position is that there was, then the burden of proof is on you to show this.

In the second half of the 20th century alone, America directly involved itself in the internal affairs of 100-plus countries through the direct violent overthrowing of sovereign governments or other means.

Why is this deamed acceptable, but perceived undue Russian interference in the US not?
The Mueller investigation was a placeholder investigation designed to uncover nothing of real substance

It did not dig into Trump's financial affairs or background

The FBI and foreign intelligence services sounded the alarm on Trumps ties to Russia months before the 2016 election

Trump used an actual Russian intelligence agent, Paul Manafort, as his campaign manager

Manafort ran "the Torturer's lobby" and orchestrated Russian client Viktor Yanukovych's rise to power in Ukraine

Trump's business were all fronts for Russian money laundering

The Senate investigation confirmed that there was indeed collusion between Trump and Russia

But that's only scratching the surface

The fantasy that Trump is not doing Russia's bidding is strictly for slow learners

Your defence of Russian interference in the US elections is classic whataboutery 

Your claims that you are not pro-Putin are laughable, you just use every Russian talking point in the book

It's becoming very apparent what you are, and somebody interested in left-wing politics or anything vaguely progressive, you are most definitely not

Definitely a right-wing troll


Edited by sid waddell - 18 Oct 2020 at 12:21am
"ONE-NIL!" - David Coleman, George Hamilton - "Finding The Words - The Art of Commentary"

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NewtNewbie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 2020 at 12:36am
Originally posted by sid waddell sid waddell wrote:

Originally posted by NewtNewbie NewtNewbie wrote:

Originally posted by nvidic nvidic wrote:

Originally posted by nvidic nvidic wrote:

Originally posted by NewtNewbie NewtNewbie wrote:

Originally posted by nvidic nvidic wrote:

Amy reputable links to it being debunked? Didn't the UK civil service not put together a full report detailing the influence? 

Amy who? Don't expect me to do your thinking for you. Anyone who keeps abreast of current affairs can easily verify what I have stated.

Right, except every day I read pretty much every reputable news source, right and left, and have never seen any report on the evidence on interference being brought into doubt

A quick Google here has reports from right across the spectrum confirming there was an attempt to influence the vote, not one saying otherwise 

So I'm not sure how I've managed to not keep abreast of current affairs on this one, but sure just use a typo against me instead 

Bump 

There were well-documented, high-profile investigations into these issues and no evidence of colusion or interference could be proved.

If your position is that there was, then the burden of proof is on you to show this.

In the second half of the 20th century alone, America directly involved itself in the internal affairs of 100-plus countries through the direct violent overthrowing of sovereign governments or other means.

Why is this deamed acceptable, but perceived undue Russian interference in the US not?
The Mueller investigation was a placeholder investigation designed to uncover nothing of real substance

It did not dig into Trump's financial affairs or background

The FBI and foreign intelligence services sounded the alarm on Trumps ties to Russia months before the 2016 election

Trump used an actual Russian intelligence agent, Paul Manafort, as his campaign manager

Manafort ran "the Torturer's lobby" and orchestrated Russian client Viktor Yanukovych's rise to power in Ukraine

Trump's business were all fronts for Russian money laundering

The Senate investigation confirmed that there was indeed collusion between Trump and Russia

But that's only scratching the surface

The fantasy that Trump is not doing Russia's bidding is strictly for slow learners

Your defence of Russian interference in the US elections is classic whataboutery 

Your claims that you are not pro-Putin are laughable, you just use every Russian talking point in the book

It's becoming very apparent what you are, and somebody interested in left-wing politics or anything vaguely progressive, you are most definitely not

Definitely a right-wing troll

And you're definitely a right-wing, imperialistic racist and inveterate believer in US-led 'Western' supremacy. You are also a conspiracy theorist crank with a wholly irrational and unjustifiable hatred of Russian people.
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Roy Keane
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sid waddell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 2020 at 12:39am
Originally posted by NewtNewbie NewtNewbie wrote:

And you're definitely a right-wing, imperialistic racist and inveterate believer in US-led 'Western' supremacy. You are also a conspiracy theorist crank with a wholly irrational and unjustifiable hatred of Russian people.
f**king hell LOL

You must be on acid or something

I've never read such utter tripe in me life

You're unhinged LOL
"ONE-NIL!" - David Coleman, George Hamilton - "Finding The Words - The Art of Commentary"

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sid waddell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 2020 at 12:42am
Where's my racism by the way, @NewtGingrich?

You've never come up with anything Smile

I bet you still support Maduro LOL

And Lukashenko

And we all know you support Putin


"ONE-NIL!" - David Coleman, George Hamilton - "Finding The Words - The Art of Commentary"

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Roy Keane
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sid waddell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 2020 at 12:56am
Originally posted by sid waddell sid waddell wrote:

Where's my racism by the way, @NewtGingrich?

You've never come up with anything Smile

I bet you still support Maduro LOL

And Lukashenko

And we all know you support Putin


Newt got your tongue, Gingrich?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sham157 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 2020 at 1:00am
Apologies for breaking up this friendly little debate.  Its only a few weeks ago a warning was issued about the labelling of other posters as racists etc, with a number of posters banned. The message seems to have fallen on deaf fingers as evidenced above in Newts post. So have a week off Newt.
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