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irishmufc View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote irishmufc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Putin/Russia thread
    Posted: 27 Mar 2018 at 7:15pm
I think this topic deserves a thread of it's own.

I'd be very concerned about expelling diplomats on the basis of British Intelligence's suspicion.

Not saying Russia/Russian Intelligence wasn't behind it but it just seems an unnecessary thing for us to get involved in bad relations with a country that we don't have any real issues with.

I think we should stay out of this. All these superpower states are involved in extra judicial killings, regime change, surveillance and interfering in each others Democratic processes. Is this something we really want to weigh in on?

If the Russian state assassinated someone on Irish soil or stole our passports (a la Israel) to commit an extrajudicial murder elsewhere, and it was proven then we would be well within our rights to expel their diplomats or shut down their embassy.

Edited by irishmufc - 27 Mar 2018 at 7:49pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Butch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2018 at 7:35pm
I have to agree . None of our business and i also heard a report on it earlier that we should show EU solidarity and the powers that are most offended by the Russians alleged crimes don't even wanna be part of the EU . Its laughable
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote irishmufc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2018 at 7:42pm
Originally posted by Butch Butch wrote:

I have to agree . None of our business and i also heard a report on it earlier that we should show EU solidarity and the powers that are most offended by the Russians alleged crimes don't even wanna be part of the EU . Its laughable


I'm literally after reading an article in the local that absolutely has it spot on.100% agree. It's a pity it was written by Ian O'Doherty in the Indo . Cannot bear him.

Edited by irishmufc - 27 Mar 2018 at 7:50pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drog addict Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2018 at 8:02pm
Why did we not f**k out aload of Israeli diplomats after the passport fiasco? Surely that was more important to us than what happened in England. As a neutral country should we not be staying out of this bullsh*t
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote irishmufc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2018 at 8:12pm
Originally posted by drog addict drog addict wrote:

Why did we not f**k out aload of Israeli diplomats after the passport fiasco? Surely that was more important to us than what happened in England. As a neutral country should we not be staying out of this bullsh*t


It was a disgrace.
This was something that directly affected us but imagine if it was Iran who had used Irish passports to carry out a political killing on some Pro-U.S./Israeli agent in another country, I have a feeling our Government would have a more substantial response with more serious consequences for the Iranian embassy's staff in Ireland.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote planning Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2018 at 8:25pm
A bit of context. America expelled 60, and closed a consulate to make a statement. We expelled 1 intelligence officer as a cosmetic exercise.

We had no choice, but to take action after the EU did, so we could not be seen as an easy target/safe haven by the Russian state.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote irishmufc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2018 at 8:47pm
Originally posted by planning planning wrote:

A bit of context. America expelled 60, and closed a consulate to make a statement. We expelled 1 intelligence officer as a cosmetic exercise.

We had no choice, but to take action after the EU did, so we could not be seen as an easy target/safe haven by the Russian state.


We certainly did have a choice. I can understand us being a member of the EU Bloc being locked into the sanctions against Russia but this is unnecessary.

The Russians may see us as an easy target anyway but my point we should draw our sword when it's something they've done to undermine our sovereignty in some way. (target our I.T. infrastructure/murder someone on Irish soil etc etc)

It's better for us to save any retaliatory action for when it directly affects our national interests. People might argue that it already does but this attempted assassination didn't happen in Ireland.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote planning Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2018 at 8:59pm
Australia took action, America took action, Canada took action, most of the EU took action. So if we did nothing, we would make ourselves more vulnerable to attack, when other countries had made it clear the Salisbury assassination attempt was unacceptable. We had no choice.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote coyne Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2018 at 9:11pm
Plannings actually right for once

There’s minor nations out there taking action purely so they’re not seen as an easy target.
Even Balkan nations are getting in on the act.

Only 2 have confirmed they wont is Malta and Greece
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Huntacha Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2018 at 9:31pm
Originally posted by irishmufc irishmufc wrote:

Originally posted by planning planning wrote:

A bit of context. America expelled 60, and closed a consulate to make a statement. We expelled 1 intelligence officer as a cosmetic exercise.

We had no choice, but to take action after the EU did, so we could not be seen as an easy target/safe haven by the Russian state.


We certainly did have a choice. I can understand us being a member of the EU Bloc being locked into the sanctions against Russia but this is unnecessary.

The Russians may see us as an easy target anyway but my point we should draw our sword when it's something they've done to undermine our sovereignty in some way. (target our I.T. infrastructure/murder someone on Irish soil etc etc)

It's better for us to save any retaliatory action for when it directly affects our national interests. People might argue that it already does but this attempted assassination didn't happen in Ireland.

Can't remember the year but was listening to an RTE on One doc podcast about KGB activity in Ireland a few years back and all diplomats were expelled then, so it wouldn't be the first time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jason Kelly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2018 at 9:39pm
Did they expel any british diplomats after the Dublin and Monaghan bombings?

A state run by quislings if ever there was one.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote horsebox Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2018 at 10:27pm
Originally posted by Jason Kelly Jason Kelly wrote:

Did they expel any british diplomats after the Dublin and Monaghan bombings?

A state run by quislings if ever there was one.


Of course we didn't. I'd be expecting more collusion with the British state than anything else.

Have a read of the Barron report.

     
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Huntacha Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2018 at 10:33pm
Originally posted by The Huntacha The Huntacha wrote:

Originally posted by irishmufc irishmufc wrote:

Originally posted by planning planning wrote:

A bit of context. America expelled 60, and closed a consulate to make a statement. We expelled 1 intelligence officer as a cosmetic exercise.

We had no choice, but to take action after the EU did, so we could not be seen as an easy target/safe haven by the Russian state.


We certainly did have a choice. I can understand us being a member of the EU Bloc being locked into the sanctions against Russia but this is unnecessary.

The Russians may see us as an easy target anyway but my point we should draw our sword when it's something they've done to undermine our sovereignty in some way. (target our I.T. infrastructure/murder someone on Irish soil etc etc)

It's better for us to save any retaliatory action for when it directly affects our national interests. People might argue that it already does but this attempted assassination didn't happen in Ireland.

Can't remember the year but was listening to an RTE on One doc podcast about KGB activity in Ireland a few years back and all diplomats were expelled then, so it wouldn't be the first time.

It was around 1983 when they were exposed so the expulsions would have been around the same time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote planning Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2018 at 10:38pm
Originally posted by coyne coyne wrote:

Plannings actually right
There’s minor nations out there taking action purely so they’re not seen as an easy target.
Even Balkan nations are getting in on the act.

Only 2 have confirmed they wont is Malta and Greece


Personally, I thought beforehand, this should have remained a UK-Russia issue. But the en masse expulsions by other European countries, meant we had no option but to follow suit. We did the absolute bare minimum and no more.

However, I will also say that the timing was grossly insensitive, given the incident in Kemerovo. And if such an incident happened in this neck of the woods, we would expect to be given adequate time to come to terms with it. The Russian response will be strong, so the action taken now is likely to make the response even stronger.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote buhrke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2018 at 10:51pm
It's madness, we're buying oil from Russia, if they want they can make us crawl on our knees to the sheiks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Het-field Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2018 at 11:03pm
Honestly, I don’t think the ramifications will be in any way noticeable from our point of view. It seems tokenistic and not much more than that. I also doubt Russia will be too concerned about the expulsion of a single diplomat from Ireland. I agree that given the number of states taking similar actions, and our relationship with the UK, we have little to actually lose.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shedite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 2018 at 9:50am
Anyone see PrimeTime last night? The Russians are building an expanded embassy in Rathfarnham, adding a load of underground rooms that they claim are extra car parking and accommodation. This despite the fact that they reduced the numbers working here by 30% in the past few years.

What the f**k are they building there Confused
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OnTheOneRoad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 2018 at 10:14am
I don't think the Russians will particularly care about what we've done, but i also agree we shouldn't, as a neutral country, get involved in such diplomatic sanctions based on the say-so of a foreign country playing war games. Simon Coveney says this is to 'show solidarity with our nearest neighbour' - that being the one we are at loggerheads with over their complete disregard for a crucially important question to us over our border, in the event they shoot themselves in the foot by leaving the EU. That solidarity has gone unreciprocated when it matters time and time again.

We shouldn't be getting involved in this as a neutral country. Austria didn't follow suit for the same reason, and cited a desire to build bridges between east and west. We ought to have done the same.
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