https://www.fai.ie/latest/football-association-ireland-unveils-football-pathways-plan/" rel="nofollow - https://www.fai.ie/latest/football-association-ireland-unveils-football-pathways-plan/

From what I read it doesn't sound like they don't have any timelines for when they hope to move to summer soccer other than by 2026? 

I'm surprised that such an important plan for Irish football hasnt registered much interest in here. The reception seems to be reasonably positive online. Has anyone seen any good articles/ podcasts etc outlining the pro's and cons? 

From what I've seen there is pushback down the country and some feel it puts football in competition with the GAA.

Consensus seems to be it will impact on participation levels but will make those who stick around better players.

I don't see how not playing in December/January impacts on things - over recent years i've barely played a game in those two months and training with no games is a chore. For kids, they have futsal planned - that seems like a great idea. There's also a proposal to take a break in the summer at the peak of GAA season. This seems like a good idea, but you can't avoid GAA completely (it seems to be all year around these days).

Definitely worth a go in my opinion, but if a few leagues decide to stay with winter football, i wonder what happens then...

Need to find the proper downtime that I can sit down and read it with full attention

The type of lads who excel at Gaelic Football are not the type of lads who develop into technical modern-day footballers.

Long gone are the days when you had Kevin Moran playing for Dublin and United simultaneously, football has moved on, and GAA never will.

Our football pyramid needs serious re-alignment, and if that means that we lose out on a google of physical, hoofball style cloggers in favour of getting our most technical prospects playing together regularly then so be it...

It's not just gaelic football though, it's hurling also e.g. Shane Long.

I'm not disagreeing with the need to move by the way - I'd be for it.

But have a mate who coaches an under 14 team down the country who thinks he'll lose a lot of players with the move.

My other gripe is it has seasons finishing in November traditionally 

When pitches are poor.

By moving to a calendar season the very important summer window for pitch maintenance and repair is now effectively removed.

You are talking about top level players here.

Small rural clubs who rely on players who play multiple codes will definitely be impacted a blind man can see this.

That's OK, the more talented and cultured athletes almost always choose football.

The guys who are just strong and fast almost always chose the parochial game.

When you're playing Spain away and they're passing the ball around our lads like they aren't there, you can't just shrug your shoulders and say "but the GAA..." This is our chance to get our best players together and aligned to ensure a consistent flow of technically proficient talent to our league and international team.

Those who dream of scoring goals against World Champions and playing at Euros will play football (Shane Long), and those who dream of beating the next parish over in the local field will play Hurling and GAA. 

But the thing is, and it's been mentioned on here, playing multiple sports is an advantage for kids - The likes of Benfica are trying to get their academy players to do it - and we have that advantage already. So I don't think we should dismiss it. 

As I said, I think the plan is a good thing but just am just trying to understand some of the issues people seem to be flagging.

I was only speaking about Futsal recently. There’s huge untapped potential for kids to be playing this in poor weather conditions 

I coach at underage level I’ll put it to you this way the GAA season is starting back now I posted the majority of our remaining fixtures back in January.

There is little to no wiggle room with our fixtures.

The GAA fixtures have arrived recently for that period there was a clash for a few weeks times and thankfully the GAA coaches were able to move their fixture.

Because I know for sure we would lose players in a clash and we are going well in the league and any points dropped would really come against the team.

It’s as simple as that the GAA carries sway and will put pressure on to not play soccer games and players will listen to them.

It’s really that simple.

Pre season now and frankly if this is what the season is like then I wouldn't do it. It's utter misery. sh*te pitches, horrible weather, cancelled games, astro turf overload. Give me warm days, evening kick offs in the sun any day of the week. 

Very interesting Mark. Mayo being a GAA football stronghold traditionally, that’s very encouraging for the rest of the country 

The games programme is an excellent idea - everybody across the country should be rowing in the same direction.

All kids should be playing SSG. 

The futson, blitzes, mini leagues, and football camps is a great initiative.

Canham needs to address and recognise that there is Irish people in the occupied 6 counties too.

There needs to be more all weather pitches too - the amount of teams unable to play Saturday\Sunday morning because of the unavailability of pitches needs to be addressed. 

Another issue the format of games - some teams play 9v9 and other teams 11v11. This is mixed and causes issues.

Some u12 girls playing 11v11 - and then other girls teams playing 9v9! There is no consistency here and they really shouldn't be playing 11v11 at that age.

What I love is that in the Mayo Leagues (junior) everything is run on time. There are no teams 2 or 3 (or 6 or 7!) games behind. Fixtures are out early, they happen when they are supposed to and it's run very well. There are problems, absolutely, but all can be overcome. 

2. Run more courses  the as someone whos been trying to do the National D license for months in Dublin or any surrounding county the lack of courses is insane. Trying to get a reply from anyone in the FAI coaching department is like trying to contact the dead.

3. By all accounts coaches who go on to UEFA A or the pro license need to be well connected and its not necessarily based on merit that needs to change. Ireland doesn't produce top level coaches and this could be one of the main reasons. If you look at Domenico Tedesco's story would he have got on to the pro license in Ireland the reality is probably not. Base it purely on merit there are good coaches I know who are coaching at LOI academy level who cant get on to a UEFA A course in Ireland. 

There are too many unqualified coaches coaching at grass roots level. 

Coaching is like driving in this country - unqualified coaches coaching at grass roots level and drivers on learning permits driving on main roads!

All clubs should have a director of coaching and small clubs should partner up with bigger clubs for this. My son locals club the most qualified coach at the club most likely has as PDP1.

My mate lives in the US and all the local grassroots coaches at his club are all UEFA A coaches - all of them.

Interesting. I'm keen to start my badges. I've a 3 year old who is doing SoccerTots etc but I'll be bringing him to a local football club when he is old enough next year. This is a very basic question but is it a linear pathway through the coaching structure or should I be looking at the likes of Futsal courses (is that a thing that exists?).

how much does it cost to put your kid into a grassroots club in the states for a year in comparison to here?

 

I had planned on doing the UEFA C license but got put off it.

I had done most of courses prior to that, but felt it was too big a gap. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxPOPFj5u60&ab_channel=FAITV" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxPOPFj5u60&ab_channel=FAITV

Do them all. All the workshops. 7v7, 9v9, futsal, goalkeeping. They are all very, very basic and you'll pick up stuff from most. So my advice, do every one of them before going onto the National D and UEFA C.

Cheers for the info lads. I'm going to start this year. 

MayoMark says that its been a big success in Mayo. I saw John O'Sullivan saying the same about Tipperary. Surely the evidence is that it is working where it has been implemented. 

yeah it can cost a fair whack from what ive heard, know a few over their coaching. the parents in that case are paying for the license. its a lofty ambition but its hard to see something like that happening here in the next 10 years or so... unless the course are heavily subsidised. 

we cant be living in fear of the gaa forever. kids play it 10 months of the year now anyway and they've been forced to choose between the two for years with the current calendars. time for the grown ups to act like grown ups and make things manageable for kids who'd like to play both. 

The clubs pay for it here too - you get reimbursed upon completion. 

But there is little appetite for coaches\volunteers to actually complete the courses.

really? im involved with a club myself. have honestly never heard of them paying for somebody to do their licenses. i know there are wealthier clubs around the place here, who im sure would do this (as they pay their senior managers handsomely) but majority ive come across are getting by on bare minimum. 

I don't know about the actual UEFA license itself.

But I do know most if not all the clubs would pay for the pre UEFA  courses. They cost every little to be fair.

Some of them are as little as 25e.

Have we ever produced a senior international from Mayo? I don't think we have.

Only one but donkeys years ago and wouldn't consider him to be a product of Mayo football as such. However, far more underage internationals than, say, 20-30 years ago. Baby steps.

Their own box purely because the pitch is so bad.  The best games we have had this year are at clubs that have Astro pitches.  It’s funny but the so called disadvantaged areas have some of the best facilities for football and the affluent areas have crap facilities and are at the behest of a crap council pitch that is usually waterlogged at this time of year.  More futsal and Astro needed and I think move to calendar year season is a good idea and it may result in less players in the short term but it should make it a better technical game as a result.  The muckers can play GAA football. 

Still only 27. He turned out to be Ireland's version of Freddy Adu.

Preston's favourite son.

There’s a lot of fear mongering about going up against the GAA on potential downsides of switching. But the examples above should be highlighted as examples where it has actually been implemented and seems like it’s been a success. 

The current schedule isn’t working. You only have to listen to the amount of people who say their kids have played 1 game in the last 2 months to see that. Stop worrying about the big bad GAA and focus on successful examples like Mayo and Tipp.

Futsal is a no brainer. The obsession with outdoor sports in a country like Ireland is nonsensical, but that’s for another thread.

You ask any club currently in a rural area how they get on with their players and who the players will pick in a clash 90% will pick gaa and you can be sure it’s a lot of the top players in the team also.

Clubs take free weekends, hope to play in national competitions, call games off for “unplayable pitches” all to get through championships season in as good as shape as possible to lessen the impact the GAA season will have on their clubs season.

And now to take them on for the whole of championship season will kill clubs or at the very least make them uncompetitive.

So Fruice, how do we explain the success of junior football in both Tipp and Mayo then? They are absolute GAA heartlands. 

I don’t think we should be dictated to by fit lads who play GAA and treat football as a bit on the side.  Let them off.  Most of them are pricks anyway who like hoofball. 

I can only tell you from my own extensive experience of the GAA VS Soccer in rural Ireland.

Listen to Kevin Doyle’s take on it on Rte last night would absolutely mirror our situation and he states they are one of the biggest clubs in Wexford players wise.

We most certainly are not.

There is also no reason in the world why players can't do both, now with the split GAA season. 

So why not see if we can replicate the success that’s already happened elsewhere. If we keep doing the same things, don’t expect different results

You obviously don’t encounter this problem.

Plenty of these “pricks” as you so eloquently put it are fine players.

But in rural clubs the pick isn’t there to cope with their loss.

It will reduce competition, reduce the standard of players & coaches available which is the exact opposite of what this document seeks todo

You will not raise the standards in rural Ireland if you go head to head with the gaa.

We have players that play 3 codes soccer, hurling and football.

To be fair to our lads as it stands they will play somewhere between 70 & 85 % of our games in the main.

Should we go ahead with this we will see that number drop well below 50% these are good players gone from our teams it happens county wide.

And one thing which hasnt been taken into account is the players themselves they want to play them all but this intensive schedule will lead to more injuries.

The elite level is totally different 

The thing here Fruice though is that you are speculating. I'm telling you I have direct experience. Some battles for players you will win and some you will lose. I coach a men's team in a rural area where GAA is absolutely huge. Recently done back to back Mayo titles.

I was on teams were this was a huge issue.  They would drop the team for the GAA team like a hot snot and then stroll back into the team because they were fitter.  It kills team morale too and most of them wanted to kick it long and pitches being crap meant it was agricultural most of the time and that got results.  Team improved when the majority of the players went to the manager and said it kills team spirit to have lads drop in and drop out at their leisure. These lads are not the future of football in this country.  

We’re as at much of a risk of losing players due to inactivity related to missing weeks/months of games because of them being called off as we are of players choosing GAA over football. It’s very demotivating for any player to miss weeks and weeks of games. 

That’s it in a nutshell. If it can be a success in one of the biggest GAA counties on the island, there’s a chance for it to work in others.

Mark whilst I may be speculating on the summer season I’ve been at this for 20 plus years and I’m speaking from experience when it comes to clashes with the gaa and I know the reasons our players aren’t available and gaa accounts for the majority.

In cork from late July  to at least mid September at least if you are dual player all those weekends are championship season we would lose at least Half our starting team for that period we would be a significantly weaker team for it.

You spoke earlier about the success of mayo club’s nationally over the past 20 years what season did those competitions follow?

I have been doing this for 15 years Fruice. I'm also speaking from experience. But I am speaking of 15 years experience of summer soccer. There is no serious football person in Mayo who would go back to winter football. Everything about it is better. Better pitches (grass ones!) because of better weather. Better quality football because of better pitches. Better crowds because the weather isn't sh*t. And I am going to assume better retention of volunteers. Because if we went back to winter soccer I wouldn't bother my hole. I do this because I enjoy it! 

Yes so nondirect clash with gaa championship season.

And correct me if I wrong Mayo has no Senior or Intermediate clubs which is a huge help in also achieving this success.

I’m not  doubting you are speaking from experience but for you to say I’m speculating is unfair and incorrect.

In an ideal world I would love nothing more than to play in the better weather but I know for sure July to effectively October for a club with a moderately successful gaa club in the area would be a nightmare.

And the purpose of the new FAI document is to increase numbers and it won’t if we are to go head with the gaa.

Think of underage coaches the vast majority of coaches within our club are also GAA coaches.

People will be out 6 times in a week coaching you would ultimately lose coaches they wouldn’t have the time todo it all.

There is no senior or intermediate soccer in Connacht at all so I don't think that's relevant.

I am not sure what you mean by "yes so direct clash with GAA" Fruice, sorry

Is it not the case under the plan that there wouldn't be football league games in July and August so therefore no clash for those months? I had read it that those months would just have blitzes, short sided games etc after the initial block of league games would be over.

Is there not also a chance you might get new people interested in coaching football who aren't interested it getting pissed upon in the cold of winter? 

Not doubting the challenges or dismissing the concerns Fruice is talking about, of course there'll be negative impacts but I really think the positives of summer football outweigh any potential negatives

But out of curiosity, has the current system benefited football in anyway in the county? The only senior Irish internationals I can see to have come out of Kilkenny are Karen Duggan and Ellen Molloy (but I might be wrong).

He's long since retired, but Matt O'Mahoney had a few caps in the 1930s

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_OMahoney" rel="nofollow - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_O%27Mahoney

List of players from Kilkenny here

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Association_footballers_from_County_Kilkenny" rel="nofollow - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Association_footballers_from_County_Kilkenny

By 15 the kids we seriously want to focusing on developing will have already been identified, many of them will be choosing one sport over the other anyway by that age. 

As someone said above maybe having less rural clubs and having mergers between certain clubs would not be the worst outcome either. Lots to debate but I think we have to go with it, can't fare much worse and encouraging to hear it works great in places such as Mayo where the GAA is so strong. 

The odds on any player who was going to make it, not making it now because the focus on GAA is probably minuscule. And for those who do stay it will only benefit them.

The minute they take their first breath and when they take take their last one.

Cant be easy living in a hurling stronghold when you’re a football person!! I guess my point was that in the long run it could be more beneficial for the people that choose football from an early age to get a better share of the resources rather than it going to people that will more than likely switch to GAA in the future. 

I used to know a kid from a hurling town that played football and hurling. He had a close relative that was very active in the League of Ireland. I asked him if he knew whether he would choose football or hurling, it was 100% hurling, even with the relative being involved. He was only about ten at the time, but he already knew what he wanted.

It’s a f**king cult.

A lad in my school, in a pure GAA area, a parish which didn't have or still doesn't to this day have a soccer club, who's father made the county panel in GAA Football & was head neck knees & ankles involved in the local club, chose soccer, and this was twenty years ago. He got UK trials, got a six month contract followed by a three year deal at an EPL club. Made first team, played 21s for Ireland and ended up having a very good lower league career. Is now a manager in English non league. 

Back then, that area had no soccer level of interest to UK scouting  ( and still doesn't  ) so he had to commute to Cherry Orchard several times a week, to train and it wasn't a short drive, it was several hours.

His father & family drove him. 

So I don't get it that soccer shouldn't offer those options in GAA heartlands. It won't be easy & there will be casualties, but dig in, offer the pathway, offer credible coaching  ( very important ) and compete. There aren't other easier options, if you want to reach out to potential talent outside the big population centers. 

The league pauses in July/August and 7 a side competitions take over, this compensates for players going on holiday and the league resumes again after that.

Last year Roscommon GAA changed some of their underage fixtures so that they clashed with the soccer. The parents put serious pressure on the GAA and they relented and revised their fixtures to avoid clashing.

In my experience the kids prefer playing soccer but the GAA has a serious hold over the parents and they are nearly forced to play it. One of the issues is that of the local GAA clubs and their coaches. A local club schedules 2 training sessions & a gym session and a game a week for U12's, also warning the kids if they don't attend all then they won't play.

Summer soccer is way more pleasurable for everyone involved, the kids love consistent games, it's easier to train and keep their interest. Unfortunately if it becomes impossible to field soccer teams in GAA strongholds then so be it, but if agreement can be made on the scheduling of fixtures it can be done. Winter football is dead, pitches are unplayable for months at a time and we must do what's right for the game.

doherty wrote: GAA is like the mafia. Once you go in you can never get out.

Like the boot of a Renault Megane

For instance U14s could be given Monday evenings for soccer nationally and no GAA fixtures for that age group would be scheduled to clash. Training is a different issue and I think it would need to be worked out locally.

The kids should be at the centre of this and if they want to play different sports then governing bodies should be looking at how to facilitate it. Having had a few years of summer league I just can't see how anyone would prefer to be playing on grass(muck) in the winter.

You’ll need it those kids would destroy you.